The Armstrong Lie

greenrocket

I dont want to start another doping thread but is this film worth a watch? has anyone seen it?

Eamonnator

Yes, I've seen it.
It's worth seeing, but, not worth going to see.

snottybridge

Watched it recently and found it very interesting, well worth a watch in my opinion.

Diggabot

It's worth watching just to see Bruyneel lose his **** when Contador attacked with Lance struggling behind.

Scrappy600

Thought it was excellent, I find Armstrong very interesting, complete ego maniacal sociopath, but very interesting

happytramp

Diggabot wrote: »

It's worth watching just to see Bruyneel lose his **** when Contador attacked with Lance struggling behind.

Anyone got a clip of that?

spoke2cun

Is this out on DVD or cinema? Any word on the Pantani film?

Darkglasses

spoke2cun wrote: »

Is this out on DVD or cinema? Any word on the Pantani film?

The DVD's for sale on amazon now, think I'll get it too.

Seweryn

happytramp wrote: »

Anyone got a clip of that?

The full movie was on youtube, but I think it has been removed by now.
Interesting stories.

Matt Bianco

spoke2cun wrote: »

Is this out on DVD or cinema? Any word on the Pantani film?

Watched the Pantani movie on iTunes there where it's available for a two night rental for €4.99

Overall, there's not a lot in addition to the Matt Rendell book on which it was based. There is some good footage from the Giro and TDF although there are some dramatisations which add little IMO.

Having said that, it's a tragic story which illustrates the human impact that systematic doping had on the peloton coupled with the dilemma in "enjoying" looking back at what I felt at the time was a golden age for cycling

Rucking_Fetard

It's on CH4 Monday at 9

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-armstrong-lie

Peter T

Thanks for the heads up.

This documentary is worth a watch too for anyone interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgRBxsW26vY

gordongekko

I saw one advertised on the BBC I thing it's on BBC4 around 9 sunday

dx22

Seweryn wrote: »

The full movie was on youtube, but I think it has been removed by now.
Interesting stories.

Its available to view on Vimeo instead!

Captain Havoc

Watched it last night, well worth a goo.

crosstownk

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

It's on CH4 Monday at 9

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-armstrong-lie

Thanks. Sky+ set to record.

Seweryn

crosstownk wrote: »

Thanks. Sky+ set to record.

Can't enter the competition. Postcode is mandatory and I do not have one. I have to say I feel discriminated.

evilivor

gordongekko wrote: »

I saw one advertised on the BBC I thing it's on BBC4 around 9 sunday

That's the new Lance film Stop at Nothing

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b048wq0z

followed by Velorama

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b048wqcc

and, the following Sunday, the classic Paris–Roubaix doc "A Sunday in Hell"

crosstownk

evilivor wrote: »

That's the new Lance film Stop at Nothing

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b048wq0z

followed by Velorama

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b048wqcc

and, the following Sunday, the classic Paris–Roubaix doc "A Sunday in Hell"

Balls. I can't set the Sky box to record on BBC4. Mrs crosstownk isn't gonna like this

BofaDeezNuhtz

crosstownk wrote: »

Balls. I can't set the Sky box to record on BBC4. Mrs crosstownk isn't gonna like this

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v20924403zBshk7AE?h1=A+sunday+in+hell

Lyaiera

This is starting on BBC4 now.

ThisRegard

crosstownk wrote: »

Balls. I can't set the Sky box to record on BBC4. Mrs crosstownk isn't gonna like this

Why ? It's regular channel on 211 so you should be able to.

Lyaiera

The BBC documentary was pretty good. I hadn't watched anything about Armstrong before though. What surprised me was that on top of being a total asshole he was also a complete misogynist. Some of the stuff he said about the women who were calling him out is unreal.

CramCycle

I found the Armstrong lie hard to watch, he comes across as a total asshat for the first half of the film (I often hear that's the attitude you need to be a winner, but I don't buy that after listening to Froome). Thats fine, its kind of what I expected but the director who claims betrayal etc. over the filming prior to his talk with Oprah, constantly makes excuses for him, I don't think he even realises it, its like he wants you to understand and feel sorry for him.

I only got half way through, maybe it picks up after that, might watch the second half later int he week.

yop

His power was immense, his connections and adulation by his supporters was incredible and their total brainwashing was crazy. The guy was a power hungry, self obsessed and dangerous guy. His love ins with the likes of Bill Clinton gave him free reign and the way he tried to ruin his friends for years was mad to say the least.
Loved Paul Kimmage calling him the cancer, first time I actually saw him rattled.

He is a doper and a cheat and should be wiped off the records of anything to do with cycling. For the likes of Paul Kimmage and the O'Reilly girl it took some balls through tough times for them.
Even in the end in the Opray interview it wasn't to apologise or to admit but to gather self pity.

pelevin

I watched the BBC docu last night. Thought Armstrong came across very well. Competitive.

bbolger

It's on Channel4 @ 9pm this eve for anyone who missed it (me).

gordongekko

Just a gentle bump. Tis on now.

CramCycle

gordongekko wrote: »

Just a gentle bump. Tis on now.

Maybe it will be easier to watch with ad breaks, turns out I only got 1/4 of the way through on review

Darkglasses

Doesn't look like there's anything new or special in this?

Peter T

Darkglasses wrote: »

Doesn't look like there's anything new or special in this?

I agree, managed to stream it earlier and thought it was only so and so.

Rucking_Fetard

Is the BBC4 one a better watch?

ThisRegard

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

Is the BBC4 one a better watch?

Wondering that myself as I'm currently watching the BBC 4 one, I might be all Lanced out afterwards.

Doc07

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

Is the BBC4 one a better watch?

Probably. It's not as stylish but plenty of interviews and has extended version of Kimmage press conference where he bites back after Armstrong claims basically to have cured cancer for the world.

ThisRegard

The Storyville program on BBC4 is very good.

pelevin

The BBC documentary was a hell of a lot better viewing & concentrated. The Armstrong Lie pretty so-so I thought. My earlier comment that I thought Lance came across well, competitive - was obviously enough to anyone who'd seen the BBC programme just a joke. Substitute psycothic & it'd be a more apt word, but actually the general portrayal & lack of viscerality of the Armstrong Lie, someone could well see him as likeable & simply competitive.

Hermy

Can anyone tell me what was the incident, shown on both programmes, where Lance looks like he's about to get into a punch up with another rider during a race?

laraghrider

To be honest I still found it hard to watch. Even after it all came out you could see that he was annoyed at having to come clean. Absolutely no remorse, no guilt no nothing. He only regret is coming back which got him busted. That says so much about the man.

The whole Frankie Andreu interviewing him thing was just plain bizarre. I must admit I didn't realise your one from Oakley was that supportive of him in court. I knew about the voice mail left for Betsy but didn't know she was from Oakley. So I hope all that hate Trek due to the Lance connection also refuse to wear Oakley's?

As for the whole 2009 I was totally clean thing. Christ almighty.

Leroy42

Watched the BBC4 Storyville one last night, having already seen the Armstrong Lie.

IMO the Storyville one is much better. I agree with the poster above in that the AL comes across as a bit 'understanding' of LA, a flawed genius as it were. It doesn't really delve too deeply in the bullying, character assassination etc that was behind the scenes. It is understandable as the original project was a docu on the great comeback and it was re-edited to try to give a different perspective in hindsight.

The Storyville one, while not telling me anything new, really made me see clearly the huge damage that he had caused. This had nothing to do with 'everybody else was doing it', this was purely about power and money, and LA was prepared to do anything to get them.

I would have been a fan of LA in the past, while I believe I was always healthily sceptical. But looking back I guess I took his side over Lemonds at the time (on nothing other than what I read) and this film clearly shows that I wasn't the only one and the massive impact that had on Greg's life. (and all the others). He casually drops slurs on others during press conferences, depositions etc, knowing that the media would then run with this. He attacked the person rather than deal with the issue.

The press conference with Kimmage was a great example. Kimmage asks him about doping and he never even touches on the question rather goes on a rant about how terrible Kimmage is. Brilliant diversion tactics, you have to grudgingly accept that the man was brilliant at it.

The most telling part, the bit that really drove the whole nature of LA home, was the bit at the end were Betsy and Kevin retell the story of the phone call from LA, and then his subsequent actions.

For one, the Storyville one is the better of the two, but by all means the Armstrong Lie is worth a look

death1234567

Leroy42 wrote: »

Brilliant diversion tactics, you have to grudgingly accept that the man was brilliant at it.

He wasn't good at it, he is just an aggressive, arrogant, twat. The only reason he got away with it for so long was because of the power he had in the sport and because he was the only recognisable cycling star in the world. He had the US people, most of the media and the UCI is his pocket so he could do what he wanted and get away with it.

petethedrummer

laraghrider wrote: »

I must admit I didn't realise your one from Oakley was that supportive of him in court. I knew about the voice mail left for Betsy but didn't know she was from Oakley.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=401209&postcount=101

Leroy42

death1234567 wrote: »

He wasn't good at it, he is just an aggressive, arrogant, twat. The only reason he got away with it for so long was because of the power he had in the sport and because he was the only recognisable cycling star in the world. He had the US people, most of the media and the UCI is his pocket so he could do what he wanted and get away with it.

Sounds like he was pretty good at it to me!

Not saying I applaud him for it, but one of the main things that pees people off is that he controled them, the media, the public etc, they all bought into it. They allowed themselves to be duped.

His aim was to be powerful and rich and he did what he needed to do to get that. He was the head of the largest sporting fraud in history, he didn't do that through luck!

Anyway, its not a point of arguement, the guy is a pr1ck, what he did was nasty and immoral. I have no sympathy for him, I hope he loses everything, for it was all based on deceit. He has zero credibility, hopefully he is seen as a pariah and at some point recognises that had he come back and even made it into the pro ranks he would have been a success story and while not 'achieving' what he did would still have been an imsperation to many. He felt that wasn't enough and he wanted everything. He was given a second chance in life, a chance many people don't get, and look at the mess he made of it.

droidus

Scorcese should make a film about Armstrong. There's more than enough detail in the various books to provide a wolf of wall street rivalling tale of madness and debauchery.

CramCycle

Leroy42 wrote: »

They allowed themselves to be duped.

Hein Verbruggen asked him to dupe him the year of his first win, he could have nipped it in the bud right there, tell them all that there is no acceptance of this behaviour. If UCI had stopped him then and made him into a icon for how far they would go to stop doping, the last 15 years would have been a hell of a lot different I suspect.

I can't condone LAs behaviour but he was far from on his own, he may have been at the start but once the head of UCI says "Just give us any reason", you know your in the clear, why would you stop?

12 sprocket

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sounds like he was pretty good at it to me!

Not saying I applaud him for it, but one of the main things that pees people off is that he controled them, the media, the public etc, they all bought into it. They allowed themselves to be duped.

His aim was to be powerful and rich and he did what he needed to do to get that. He was the head of the largest sporting fraud in history, he didn't do that through luck!

Anyway, its not a point of arguement, the guy is a pr1ck, what he did was nasty and immoral. I have no sympathy for him, I hope he loses everything, for it was all based on deceit. He has zero credibility, hopefully he is seen as a pariah and at some point recognises that had he come back and even made it into the pro ranks he would have been a success story and while not 'achieving' what he did would still have been an imsperation to many. He felt that wasn't enough and he wanted everything. He was given a second chance in life, a chance many people don't get, and look at the mess he made of it.

"He was the head of the largest sporting fraud in history" I have seen this written a lot of times during the last few years, and every time I see it I think that there is probably someone out there, maybe in another sport even saying to themselves "if only they knew"
I don't think its possible to truthfully state that Armstrongs was the largest sporting fraud in history. It might be true to state that Armstrongs is the largest sporting fraud that has been discovered to date!

gucci

droidus wrote: »

Scorcese should make a film about Armstrong. There's more than enough detail in the various books to provide a wolf of wall street rivalling tale of madness and debauchery.

Mrs gucci made the same wolf of wall street comparison to me while watching the storyville doc.Think fassbender would be the logical choice for LA!

CramCycle

gucci wrote: »

Mrs gucci made the same wolf of wall street comparison to me while watching the storyville doc.Think fassbender would be the logical choice for LA!

Matthew McConnaghey would also be a runner, frame and accent etc

The Noble Nudge

I only read David Walsh's book two weeks ago,
BBC 4 version was a better one to watch out of the two but the Lie had a lot more of LA's side (Ferrari contributions etc),
I was in and out of the room watching the LA lie last night did he even give Emma O Reilly a mention???
He edited out Kimmages response to his outburst about not giving an interview,
I think the LA lie was orchestrated to try make up for what he had hoped the Oprah interview didn't do and redeem him in some way.
Fair play to Walsh, Kimmage, O Reilly and all that outed him.
As someone said above still no remorse....
I'm now a day behind TDF because of LA........:(:(

Seen a funny paper cutting image on the issue last week must try upload it...

nak

12 sprocket wrote: »

"He was the head of the largest sporting fraud in history" I have seen this written a lot of times during the last few years, and every time I see it I think that there is probably someone out there, maybe in another sport even saying to themselves "if only they knew"
I don't think its possible to truthfully state that Armstrongs was the largest sporting fraud in history. It might be true to state that Armstrongs is the largest sporting fraud that has been discovered to date!

Yeah, I would have thought the BALCO labs scandal was bigger, especially when they were developing drugs to be undetectable.

Athletes involved (not comprehensive):
Major League Baseball
Barry Bonds and Gary Sheffield: Testified before the federal grand jury that they unknowingly took steroids given to them by Greg Anderson.
Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Armando Rios, Benito Santiago, Bobby Estalella: Testified before the federal grand jury that they used steroids provided to them by Greg Anderson:
Track & Field
Marion Jones: Admitted that she used steroids before the 2000 Summer Olympics and lied to federal prosecutors about it. She was sentenced to six months in prison and two years of probation.
Regina Jacobs: Tested positive and suspended from competition for four years.
Alvin Harrison and Michelle Collins - Suspended from competition for four years.
Kevin Toth, John McEwen, Dwain Chambers, Calvin Harrison, Melissa Price: Tested positive and suspended from competition for two years.
Tim Montgomery: Testified before the federal grand jury that he unknowingly used steroids provided to him by Victor Conte. Suspended from competition for two years.
Chryste Gaines and Kelli White: Suspended from competition for two years.
Sandra Glover, Christopher Phillips, Eric Thomas: Tested positive and given a warning
NFL
Bill Romanowski - Tested positive, but had already retired.
Barret Robbins, Dana Stubblefield, and Chris Cooper - Tested positive. Fined by the NFL.
Boxing
Shane Mosley - Admitted he unknowingly took steroids provided by BALCO.

and that's not all of them.

petethedrummer

12 sprocket wrote: »

every time I see it I think that there is probably someone out there, maybe in another sport even saying to themselves "if only they knew"

If google translate is correct I imagine THEY are saying "si sólo supieran".

gucci

CramCycle wrote: »

Matthew McConnaghey would also be a runner, frame and accent etc

much better! Darn it,how did i miss that one?