Can't catch a break

Elessar

This is more of a rant than anything else.

I am currently employed in Finance and I am studying an IT degree part time. I love the whole area of IT and should have done this years ago. I am trying as much as possible to move into an entry level IT role (full time, part time, doesn't matter, I'll do whatever I need!) but I'm finding it absolutely impossible.

The college I study in recently advertised for IT support positions which I duly applied for. I had an interview this week which went really well and I was very positive about my chances. Just got an email saying I was not selected. To say I am devastated is an understatement. I thought the experience I had in my current role, aswell as over a decade of other experience including customer service and others would stand to me. But it didn't. Only college students could apply for this position so I felt I had a good chance against the younger students. But aparantly there were candidates with more IT skills and experience than I have.

This is just depressing. I thought the college would have given some people a chance. It's not like I have no experience (worked in an internet cafe years ago, fixing and imaging the machines and build my own every year or so) but it didn't seem to matter.

What's worse is that this is the second time this year I have been rejected for an entry level IT position. One came up in my current employer which I applied for but didn't even get an interview because I "didn't have the required experience". I've applied to countless other positions on IrishJobs and don't even get a reply. I simply cannot catch a break.

I hate my current role with a passion and want to move on ASAP and start out a career in IT, and Support (even level 1) would be a good starting point, and something I would be interested in. But I can't get a job without experience and can't get experience without a job.

The only way I can see to fix this is to quit my job outright, join the dole queue and apply for a JobBridge internship in support after 3 months(assuming one comes up!). What's worse, I'm seriously considering this.

Really, I'm just frustrated and depressed. And devastated over this latest setback. Really though I was in with a chance (there were 3 positions!).

Rant over :mad:

EDIT: Anyone else in the same position?

blindsider

Commiserations.

Do nothing in haste!

Ask the college for feedback - phrase it positively - "What could I do better next time?"

Does your current employer have an IT dept that you could transfer to?

Elessar

I asked for feedback and all I got was that my interview was fine but that there were others who were a "stronger match in terms of their IT skills and knowledge". Well why the hell did you interview me if that was the case??

It's depressing to think that some 18/19 year olds have more experience that me (I'm 28). There is an IT dept where I work but they only hire experience people aswell! There is no mechanism for them to take unexperienced people on, believe me I've tried. The more I think about that interview the worse I feel. What a f*cking waste of time. Gutted.

bee06

Elessar wrote: »

I asked for feedback and all I got was that my interview was fine but that there were others who were a "stronger match in terms of their IT skills and knowledge". Well why the hell did you interview me if that was the case??

It's depressing to think that some 18/19 year olds have more experience that me (I'm 28). There is an IT dept where I work but they only hire experience people aswell! There is no mechanism for them to take unexperienced people on, believe me I've tried. The more I think about that interview the worse I feel. What a f*cking waste of time. Gutted.

Maybe you just don't interview that well and you're not getting the skills you have across? Interviews are tough and most people need practice to get used to performing well in them.

macnug

What about doing some certs to accompany your degree. You need to stand out from the (large and ever increasing) crowd.

KeithTS

Am I right in thinking you haven't finished your degree yet?

What stage are you at if you haven't finsihed it yet?

Mrs OBumble

Elessar wrote: »

there were others who were a "stronger match in terms of their IT skills and knowledge". Well why the hell did you interview me if that was the case??
... Gutted.

That's just employer-ese for either
"we want people who have lived and breathed computers their entire lives, people skills don't matter"


or
"the kids are cheaper, and besides they'll leave quickly and open up a vacancy for some of next year's students, which will motivate them to work hard too".



They are unlikely to ever give you the real reason why you weren't hired, which could be anything under the sun.

Yes, it's depressing as hell. But you just have to hang in there, finish the degree, and keep applying.

It sounds corny, but IMHO one of the things that you need to do to catch a break is to believe that you will: one day, sooner or later, the hard work which you've put in will meet an opportunity which needs it, and "good luck" will happen as a result.



Note: one thing about working in IT is that sometimes projects canned for no good reason (that the workers can see). You simply cannot let yourself get too gutted about anything.

Tarzana

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

That's just employer-ese for either
"we want people who have lived and breathed computers their entire lives, people skills don't matter"

I dunno, you hear this in loads of industries (obvs not the IT bit). It's just a polite way of covering themselves. So bland. I love when I actually receive tailored feedback, at least it gives me something to work with.

Jim2007

Tarzana wrote: »

I dunno, you hear this in loads of industries (obvs not the IT bit). It's just a polite way of covering themselves. So bland. I love when I actually receive tailored feedback, at least it gives me something to work with.

I can not speak about other industries, but in IT it is definitely the case. It is not unusual at all to come across young people going for entry level positions that have as good a command of the subject area as people with several years professional experience!

There are so many open source type projects going on that if you are interested you can gain the same type of experience and skills on such projects as people who are working professionally day in and day out.

My own son is a case in point, he is 16 years old and is part of a team that builds and maintains a popular wiki in the German speaking part of Europe. And as a result he already has a lot of experience in things like performance issues, denial of service attacks, intrusion, data protection issues, encryption and so on. These are very much in demand skills and there are a lot of kids like that out there. In may cases I would say that the degree is just validation of what they already know and do.

Eoin

Unsuccessful interviews aren't always a waste of time, so try not to think of it that way. I'd say that when you get over some of the disappointment and think a bit more objectively about it, you'll think of better answers you could have given and that will stand to you next time.

You could thank them for the feedback and ask if there were any specific skills or aptitudes that they think you need to improve on if you were to apply for a similar role elsewhere. It could be the case that the feedback they gave wasn't just a stock reply.

Well why the hell did you interview me if that was the case?

Maybe they interviewed you knowing they had someone in mind but wanted to go through the motions, but maybe there was something in your application that got you the interview, but didn't come across well enough in the interview.

It's depressing to think that some 18/19 year olds have more experience that me (I'm 28)

They might have more IT experience, but I think there's a lot to be said for people who have experience in a relevant enough working environment - people who are used to real life projects and the things that can go wrong; not just case studies etc.

Elessar

Thanks for the replies. I fully accept I may not have done as well as I could in the interview. Maybe I spoke to much like it was a conversation, maybe my examples were not specific enough. I did try to emphasise my IT skills and experience where possible but the panel seemed to gloss over them. Thinking back I get the impression that my interview was just running through the motions. I thought it went really well and I was hoping this would have been the big break I needed, but alas it was not to be.

Eoin wrote: »

They might have more IT experience, but I think there's a lot to be said for people who have experience in a relevant enough working environment - people who are used to real life projects and the things that can go wrong; not just case studies etc.

I would have thought the same, but it seemed to stand against me this time.

KeithTS wrote: »

Am I right in thinking you haven't finished your degree yet?

What stage are you at if you haven't finsihed it yet?

You're right I've just finished first year. But the thoughts of continuing working where I am for the next 3 years fill me with dread and I would like to get a step on the IT ladder as soon as possible. Problem is nobody will touch me it seems!

I'm not sure where to go from here. I will try for some kind of secondment in work but come September if I have nothing I think I will quit and concentrate on college full time. I've no debts or dependants and I've nothing to lose really.

I'll be having a few drinks tonight to help null the whole thing! :pac:

InReality

Just wanted to say if you really like IT to keep plugging away at it.

I'm was in a similar position to you , wanted to switch careers for years , and finally had an interview last week where I might have got a break.

So good luck with it.

lau1247

Op have a try at gradireland website. I assume you will finish your IT course soon so in a way can be considered a graduate (or soon to be). If anything they will likely to hire graduate with limited experience. No harm giving it a shot. Wish you best of luck

knotknowbody

There are jobs out there in I.T, plenty of them and you will get one eventually, having just completed year one of your degree, employers will be looking at you as very inexperienced, your experience in other industries will not count for as much with the employer as you might hope, also having spent years in another industry employers may feel you are only getting into I.T because of the money or number of jobs available and not because of a passion for it.

I think another poster mentioned it and I would also advise looking at open source stuff to develop your skills and overall knowledge and understanding, there is loads of free and excellent stuff out there to download and work with. If your interested in networking and security for example, you could setup a small home network, get Security Onion running on a machine, get Backtrack/Kali running on another one and experiment, use tools in Backtrack to generate attacks and try to tune Security Onion to detect them, try writing your own snort rules and see if you can then generate traffic to trigger them, if you have a decent machine you may be able to setup a network like above in a virtual environment like VMWare.

If your interested in web development download WAMP or LAMP, they give you everything you need to host fully functional websites on your own machine, start to code up simple websites that read/write to a database using php and sql, I found notepad++ to be a good editor for web development, by doing this you will learn both the coding but also the general knowledge of how a website actually works in the background from hosting the site to how the browser interacts with the server.

Once you have developed a knowledge and understanding of how stuff works using the free open source tools and software it is relatively easy to move to commercial tools and software because you understand what should happen for a given action, its basically just learning the different interface in most cases.

Take a couple of industry certifications in the area that interests you over the summer when your off college, pick one like CCNA if your into networking and try and get it before you go back to college, I assume you are studying part time if you have a job, keep using the hours you would normally be at college for study, just study for your chosen certification.

I.T is so diverse that nobody can be an expert at everything so you need to pick a few specialties and concentrate on improving your skills and experience in those areas, experience counts for more in I.T than in many other industries so by experimenting at home and then been able to put those skills on your C.V and talk about things in fine detail at interview you are giving yourself a fighting chance.

The important thing is to keep building your knowledge of your chosen area at all times, don't panic about not getting called for an interview yet, look on the time as an opportunity to improve your knowledge so you will do better when you do get the interview and use that time wisely. It is also good to remind yourself that pushing yourself to learn this stuff now, will likely make later years of the college course easier as you will already have covered some stuff yourself.

moc moc a moc

Elessar wrote: »

It's depressing to think that some 18/19 year olds have more experience that me (I'm 28)

Well, if it's any consolation, NOBODY in their right mind will let an 18/19-year-old near a financial institution's IT equipment. If you can eventually get your foot on the ladder and a little experience under your belt, your previous experience (and contacts) in the finance industry should help you land a decent gig.

In the meantime, finish your degree, get some industry certs, and try to get any experience at all (even volounteering for a charity or other non-profit organisation will look better on a CV than an empty space).