Should people who can’t get broadband have to pay the full property tax?

bealtine

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/37082-should-people-who-cant-get

maceocc2

What makes Broadband a basic human right? Do they need it to survive, I don't think so. Thrive? probably, but not to survive.

Why should it impact property tax rates when other actual basic human needs don't, e.g. water, heating/fuel or electricity.

That whole article is ridiculous, it doesn't really raise any valid points other than broadband is required everywhere, which I agree with, but the lack of a broadband service shouldn't determine how much tax you pay, it's a private industry, if you want to buy a direct link, satellite or ISDN your perfectly entitled, you will have to incur the cost but again, why is that the governments problem?

bealtine

maceocc2 wrote: »

What makes Broadband a basic human right? Do they need it to survive, I don't think so. Thrive? probably, but not to survive.

The UN says it's a "basic human right"

maceocc2

bealtine wrote: »

The UN says it's a "basic human right"

The UN say internet access is a human right.

Farmer Pudsey

Lack of hispeed internet access(broadband) is becoming an issue. Over the last 10 years different have invested large sums of money in laying fibre. However there has been no joined up thinking. The councils had a project in the mid noughties however the money was spend on providing a network where there was commercial networks already and it is litererly lying in the ground alot unused.

Other projects such as giving 3 the last contract for rural broadband has not been sucessful. Brodaband should get priority funding as it is a huge issue how much is the question. The government talk about the ESB, UPC, Eircom and 4G however these will in general only provide to commercially viable area's. In general Wireless/Satelite broadband has not been a huge sucess and has been expensive. There seems toi be no joined up thinking in providing service in blackspots, for instance forcing licience holders to provide service in specific blackspot area's. Or else to target funding at these area's.


On linking it to property tax it would already be indirecty linked in that property with poor access would have lower values. Property tax is linked to he value of your house not to TV, Broadband access. I find it hard to believe that the UN consider it a basic human right

Fighting Irish

Yes

kippy

bealtine wrote: »

The UN says it's a "basic human right"

The UN would be better served implementing human rights that are literally a life or death issue in countries where people die from preventable issues on a daily basis.

The article is ridiculous.

If you were to "allow" such logic, why not extend it to people who haven't easy access to librarys, public swimming pools, hospitals, other amenities, etc.....
Farcical.

bealtine

maceocc2 wrote: »

The UN say internet access is a human right.

You are splitting hairs there...how do you propose people get access to the internet via tin cans?

maceocc2

bealtine wrote: »

You are splitting hairs there...how do you propose people get access to the internet via tin cans?

Not really splitting hairs at all..... 1 is fast access i.e. broadband. The other can be dial up 3G or whatever. Broadband infrastructure and maintenance is exponentially more expensive than basic internet access.

I know this is a strange analogy, but think of it terms of an Ambulance Service (a section of an actual human right i.e. health and well-being)...... Everyone has a right to an Ambulance service, right?

Think of basic internet access as - A Van Ambulance service
Think of Broadband as - A helicopter Ambulance Service

Now, obviously a helicopter service is SOOOOO much better, but also more expensive, does everyone have a right to a helicopter ambulance service? No, but as a private citizen if I want, I can upgrade to have my own helicopter and use it as an ambulance service.

bealtine

maceocc2 wrote: »

Not really splitting hairs at all..... 1 is fast access i.e. broadband. The other can be dial up 3G or whatever. Broadband infrastructure and maintenance is exponentially more expensive than basic internet access.

I fail to comprehend your analogy, I also disagree that 3G or dial up are "internet access". They can work...sometimes...but then it's not "internet access" when they don't work. However that's a discussion for some other time.

Granted the UN should be more interested in real actual human rights but in the meantime they've declared it a right.

Also house prices are affected by access to real broadband and also the savings involved in not having to commute are enormous.

Many companies will not employ staff if they do not have access to real broadband. So it is an imperative to have proper broadband.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

maceocc2

I fail to comprehend your analogy, I also disagree that 3G or dial up are "internet access".

Regardless of your opinion, they are in fact considered internet access.

Also house prices are affected by access to real broadband and also the savings involved in not having to commute are enormous.

What are you basing this on? I partake in property purchasing personally and on behalf of others and broadband is so low down the priority list it's not even considered in most cases. Even worse in the current circumstances where people are again scrambling to get onto the property market.

Many companies will not employ staff if they do not have access to real broadband. So it is an imperative to have proper broadband.

Again what are you basing this on? Not only is it illegal, it's plain ridiculous to even raise this as a genuine issue.

bealtine

maceocc2 wrote: »

Again what are you basing this on? Not only is it illegal, it's plain ridiculous to even raise this as a genuine issue.

Apple Computers

maceocc2

bealtine wrote: »

Apple Computers

LOL, I think you misunderstand how to back up your claim, I'm asking for evidence, not just random and possibly defaming claims.

Anyway, back to the point.....Should the state have to pay (directly or indirectly) for a premium internet access service to each individual in the state, in my opinion, no. If you want it you have only the right to get it yourself.

bealtine

maceocc2 wrote: »

LOL, I think you misunderstand how to back up your claim, I'm asking for evidence, not just random and possibly defaming claims.

Anyway, back to the point.....Should the state have to pay (directly or indirectly) for a premium internet access service to each individual in the state, in my opinion, no. If you want it you have the right to get it yourself.

http://www.adverts.ie/jobs/apple/technical-support-advisor-english-work-from-home/5368320?utm_source=jooble&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=jooble

maceocc2

bealtine wrote: »

http://www.adverts.ie/jobs/apple/technical-support-advisor-english-work-from-home/5368320?utm_source=jooble&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=jooble

Dude, this is one specific job....that is advertised as a "Work From Home" job. This doesn't show that having home Broadband is a company policy.

If you apply for this while you don't have home Broadband then you're an idiot. It would be like applying for a Taxi job when you don't have a driving licence.

bealtine

maceocc2 wrote: »

Dude, this is one specific job....that is advertised as a "Work From Home" job. This doesn't show that having home Broadband is a company policy.

If you apply for this while you don't have home Broadband then you're an idiot. It would be like applying for a Taxi job when you don't have a driving licence.

This is company policy...get over it. It's just one listing from many on the site. If you don't like it take it up with Apple.

Anyway these days if you don't have broadband you're an idiot.

Yes I do think the government should step in where telcos have failed.

There's no point discussing this with an ideological driven person, broadband is a human right, telcos have failed so what's your suggestion?

maceocc2

bealtine wrote: »

This is company policy...get over it.

It's not, you have no bases of fact for that assumption.

Anyway these days if you don't have broadband you're an idiot.

Totally agree, but that's not the governments problem. Saying it's the governments problem really emphasizes the stupidity. There are options available, call the telco and ask about direct or ISDN lines, speak about Satellite, 3G/4G whatever.

Yes I do think the government should step in where telcos have failed. There's no point discussing this with an ideological driven person, broadband is a human right, telcos have failed so what's your suggestion?

I don't think Telco's have failed by not bringing broadband/fibre lines to the whole country, in fact as private companies they've actually won, bringing lines to certain areas is unfeasible and costly and will never have a ROI. This is why you feel the government should step in, right??

In my opinion, it's not required, there are alternatives to get internet access which don't require millions in investment and provide fast (20mb) access as well. If you want it, go and get it.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

SInce when is internet a human right? Seems ridiculous. Is there a set speed which people must receive? If they fall below this speed will a crack team of NATO operatives rescue them from their technological waste land?

Farmer Pudsey

Mace hi-speed internet is now vital to any area of work. It is as necessary as good roads or Electricity supply. Good telecommunications was what helped drive the Irish economy in the 90's. We have gone from a 1st world teiecoms country to 2nd or maybe 3rd world.

I do not think it is a human right but it is necessary for industry. It will limit our ability to compete for tourists etc longterm and it will limit job availability. More and more companies want tech staff that have access to hi-spped internet outside of working hours. Costs too much and takess too long for staff to resolve issue otherwise.

bealtine

maceocc2 wrote: »

In my opinion, it's not required, there are alternatives to get internet access which don't require millions in investment and provide fast (20mb) access as well. If you want it, go and get it.

Yes and in my opinion it is required...I'm still open to suggestions as to how people in rural areas can "get it"?, well something that works

maceocc2

bealtine wrote: »

Yes and in my opinion it is required...I'm still open to suggestions as to how people in rural areas can "get it"?, well something that works

ehhhhh....Satellite Broadband is available at a reasonable price for everyone in the country... http://www.uswitch.ie/broadband/compare/satellite-broadband/ And it works yayyyyy, problem solved. Alternatively, If you can afford it you can pay for a direct line to your house.

Seriously there are so many alternatives that it seems like you're just trolling, or else have this obsession with giving out to the government for pretty much anything.

I mean seriously, the government don't even have a legal obligation to provide a direct water/gas/electrical supply to your house, and your complaining about broadband access despite there being a LONGGGGG list of alternatives, really?

bumper234

bealtine wrote: »

This is company policy...get over it. It's just one listing from many on the site. If you don't like it take it up with Apple.

Anyway these days if you don't have broadband you're an idiot.

Yes I do think the government should step in where telcos have failed.

There's no point discussing this with an ideological driven person, broadband is a human right, telcos have failed so what's your suggestion?

It is in my hole, at best it is a luxury at worst it's an inconvenience not to have.

kippy

bealtine wrote: »

Apple Computers

Sorry, but that's another nonsensical argument.

There are of course a number of organisations out there that offer work from home options and that do require the worker to have broadband (strangely enough)
There are also companies out that that offer high paid work that require degrees, specific sets of skills etc etc

You'd be wasting your time applying for either if you didnt fulfill the requirements.

bealtine

maceocc2 wrote: »

ehhhhh....Satellite Broadband is available at a reasonable price for everyone in the country... http://www.uswitch.ie/broadband/compare/satellite-broadband/ And it works yayyyyy, problem solved. Alternatively, If you can afford it you can pay for a direct line to your house.

I said alternatives that WORK

kippy

bealtine wrote: »

This is company policy...get over it. It's just one listing from many on the site. If you don't like it take it up with Apple.

Anyway these days if you don't have broadband you're an idiot.

Yes I do think the government should step in where telcos have failed.

There's no point discussing this with an ideological driven person, broadband is a human right, telcos have failed so what's your suggestion?

For the record. The "broadband" requirement for the Apple jobs is 2 meg down or some like that.
And again, its pretty obvious why it's a requirement. It's pretty much a requirement for any person who wants to "work from home".

watty

Should there be full property tax if no mains water, or no mains sewerage, or Bins only fortnightly rather than weekly?
Or no Maternity or 24 A&E services or Post Office or Library within country/certain distance,
Or no decent Public Transport. Or no mains gas.

Probably not. Infrastructure is dysfunctional in Ireland. Politicians seem unable to over-rule Quangos and Civil Service.

Of course we should have a Universal Service Obligation on Broadband. It's no harder to deliver than ESB or Letters.

Broadband is as important as Post Office, Letters, Phone, ESB and Libraries.

watty

maceocc2 wrote: »

ehhhhh....Satellite Broadband is available at a reasonable price for everyone in the country...

No, there is no such thing as Satellite Broadband.
It's Satellite Internet Access. It's also very very expensive for the amount of data & speed.
Many aspects are only partially functional compared even with dialup never mind Broadband.

Capacity is so low (less than one UPC cabinet or a rural exchange, for WHOLE of Ireland) that there are even Hourly, Daily, Weekly as well as monthly low caps.

Mobile Broadband doesn't exist either, not even the 4G/LTE. Mobile only connects on demand, (Broadband is always on), various services may not work, it may not connect or may drop, and speed can be as slow as ISDN and latency rise as high as Satellite.

bumper234

I'd like op to show the report where the UN state that broadband is a "human right"

kippy

bumper234 wrote: »

I'd like op to show the report where the UN state that broadband is a "human right"

Cant find the actual report but there are tonnes of articles referencing it. This is an interesting one.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2012/jan/11/is-internet-access-a-human-right

OneEightSeven

kippy wrote: »

Cant find the actual report but there are tonnes of articles referencing it. This is an interesting one.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2012/jan/11/is-internet-access-a-human-right

That says internet access, not broadband.

kippy

OneEightSeven wrote: »

That says internet access, not broadband.

Yeah, I know.
That was highlighted in another post higher up this page.

cgarvey

maceocc2 wrote: »

Not only is it illegal, it's plain ridiculous to even raise this as a genuine issue.

It's not illegal, by the way.

bealtine wrote: »

Anyway these days if you don't have broadband you're an idiot.

Ridiculous and offensive statement. Especially in the context that IrelandOffline exists at all.

maceocc2 wrote: »

the government don't even have a legal obligation to provide a direct water/gas/electrical supply to your house

But they do, say in the case of electricity, provide for a legal framework allowing for the industry regulator to impose a universal service obligation. Now it's not black & white, granted (because of issues around shared cost of installation, etc.), but it is pretty close to the government being "obliged" to provide said service.