Should I be cycling in the hard shoulder.

funnyclub

Ok so I got my new bike today and got out on it straight away. I cycled from Kinnegad to Motherhubbards and back.
On my way I was keeping to the left of the road and went into the hard shoulder if it was a good surface and clear of debris.
Anyway on one stretch of road I wasn't in the hard shoulder but on far left of the road cars that came up behind overtook me when clear to but one guy in particular beep and me and gestured that I should be in the hard shoulder!

Was I in the wrong?

Dark sun

funnyclub wrote: »

Ok so I got my new bike today and got out on it straight away. I cycled from Kinnegad to Motherhubbards and back.
On my way I was keeping to the left of the road and went into the hard shoulder if it was a good surface and clear of debris.
Anyway on one stretch of road I wasn't in the hard shoulder but on far left of the road cars that came up behind overtook me when clear to but one guy in particular beep and me and gestured that I should be in the hard shoulder!

Was I in the wrong?

Don't know the road is it a motorway.

No Pants

The hard shoulder technically isn't part of the road, it's for emergency use only. I still cycle on it occasionally on some roads where it is a good surface (some parts of the old N2 are not) and not strewn with debris. But I wouldn't be bullied into using it.

tf2

No, cyclists don't have to use the hard shoulder. I only use it if its smooth and clear of debris like small stones. Only thing is motorists sometimes think that if a hard shoulder is empty the bike should be on it. They cant tell if a seemingly smooth hard shoulder has pebbles or gravel or something down those lines on it.

Daroxtar

I've cycled that stretch plenty of times and never had any problems with cars, I cycle in the hard shoulder in some of it but that hard shoulder is full of thorns from the hedge cutting. I've had 5 punctures there in the last year, all thorns so now I tend to stay on the road if there's any debris about.
Most of that road is plenty wide for a car to overtake a cyclist without having to cross lanes so unless you were out in the middle of it you probably just had the misfortune of dealing with a gimp.

roofer1988

ye dont pay road tax. moooooooove out of the way. some people are trying to make money instead of putting down the day cycling

tf2

Daroxtar wrote: »

you probably just had the misfortune of dealing with a gimp.

roofer1988 wrote: »

ye dont pay road tax. moooooooove out of the way. some people are trying to make money instead of putting down the day cycling

Funnyclub You probably met this fine gentleman?

Dark sun

roofer1988 wrote: »

ye dont pay road tax. moooooooove out of the way. some people are trying to make money instead of putting down the day cycling

Hold on I can get this, ITS CALLED MOTOR TAX, there I done it, feel better now.

Beasty

roofer1988 wrote: »

ye dont pay road tax. moooooooove out of the way. some people are trying to make money instead of putting down the day cycling

No need for anyone to comment further on this post - I've dealt with it.

Thanks

Beasty

07Lapierre

funnyclub wrote: »

Ok so I got my new bike today and got out on it straight away. I cycled from Kinnegad to Motherhubbards and back.
On my way I was keeping to the left of the road and went into the hard shoulder if it was a good surface and clear of debris.
Anyway on one stretch of road I wasn't in the hard shoulder but on far left of the road cars that came up behind overtook me when clear to but one guy in particular beep and me and gestured that I should be in the hard shoulder!

Was I in the wrong?

Legally speaking, no your not wrong. You can cycle on the road, but that's a very busy road and it's probably safer for you to ride just inside the hard shoulder. Don't cycle " in the gutter" as that's where all the debris etc. will be.

A_Sober_Paddy

I often cycle out to cratloe or shannon and use the dual carriageway as part of my route, I always utilize the hard shoulder, it mush safer...

Not certain parts are bad to a move on the road just a little bit, i'm try and keep as close to the hard shoulder has safer allows tho..

tf2

Does anyone know the story with cycling two abreast? I've heard conflicting things I don't know how may times.

A_Sober_Paddy

tf2 wrote: »

Does anyone know the story with cycling two abreast? I've heard conflicting things I don't know how may times.

On a main road or dual carriageway?

On a dual carriageway it annoys me, with one person on the road and the other in the hard shoulder, i just think its unnecessarily dangerous IMO, i'm a cyclist mind, not a driver or even a car owner

biomed32

I know that stretch of road backwards, I am pretty sure its the R40 something or other so no hard shoulder?

tf2

On a main road? Only thing is not all main roads were created equal. The N59 in Galway out to Clifden is dangerous for a single bike dont mind two.

funnyclub

I was on a main road not a motorway and kept well to my left and used the hard shoulder where available and clear of debris.

Thanks for clearing that up guys.

Beasty

tf2 wrote: »

Does anyone know the story with cycling two abreast? I've heard conflicting things I don't know how may times.

In Ireland cycling 2 abreast is permitted wherever cycling on the road is permitted. 3 abreast is only permitted when overtaking

tf2

Just looked into it a bit more. Apparently its only ever not permitted if a Garda were to specifically instruct you not cycle two abreast. Their signals/directions override the bye-laws which talk about cycling two abreast.

Type 17

The RSA 'Cyclists' ad shows a group riding two abreast, so it's obviously allowed, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't use our common sense, by observing current road and traffic conditions and singling out temporarily to help traffic get past if it's safe to do so.

Similarly, you don't have to cycle in the hard shoulder, but if it's clean and smooth, why wouldn't you at least use the outer part of it?

laraghrider

This thread is actually good timing as it's something I've been thinking about recently. On my commute into work there is a decent straight section with a hard shoulder in it. On this section I have noticed that if I am cycling in the lane when cars and in particular trucks over take they give a lot of space. Often over into the oncoming lane and way more than the 1.5m. When I'm in the hard shoulder it's like they think I'm not on the road so they don't have to give an inch and they overtake a lot closer. I've had two incidents where I was just over the yellow strip and in the hard shoulder and the trailer of a tractor hit me on the shoulder and a truck clipped me while over taking. Any other time while in the lane I'm given ample room.

Green&Red

As a general rule (and particularly on that Clifden road) if its not safe to pass two cyclists its not safe to pass one. By Singling out u are inviting cars to overtake u and take more risk, if somnething happens then the person most likely to lose out is the cyclist. You do get a lot of knobs roaring at you to keep in and that you're holding up traffic but you are traffic!

A nice wave and a big smile I fine cheers me up no end (and if you believe in karmic balance that cheering up is directly coming from the driver!)

As for the hard shoulder, common sense should prevail, if its clean then cycle well in it, dont cycle half in it half on the road. When you're on the road protect your space, cycle predictably and you'll get respect.

funnyclub

Thanks all for your advice.

One thing i did notice yesterday as i said it was my 1st time out on the bike was the dangers on the road for cyclists, especially when buses or trucks go by you you really get blown about a bit and could get caught out if you werent expecting it!

Chips Lovell

There's been some discussion about cycling in the hard shoulder here before and some interesting questions arose regarding the legal aspect. As far as I recall, nobody could establish whether it was legal or not to cycle in the hard shoulder.

Some initial examination of legislation reveals that a hard shoulder is included in the legal definition of a "road".

The dashed yellow line marking a hard shoulder, RRM 025, signifies the "edge of the roadway".

In Irish law, "roadway" is defined as "that portion of a road which is provided primarily for the use of vehicles".

What I don't know is whether there is any law prohibiting/limiting vehicles from being driven in a hard shoulder and, if so, if there is any exemption for bicycles. I think there is definitely a law regarding motorways, but I don't know about other road categories.

Zzippy

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

There's been some discussion about cycling in the hard shoulder here before and some interesting questions arose regarding the legal aspect. As far as I recall, nobody could establish whether it was legal or not to cycle in the hard shoulder.

Some initial examination of legislation reveals that a hard shoulder is included in the legal definition of a "road".

The dashed yellow line marking a hard shoulder, RRM 025, signifies the "edge of the roadway".

In Irish law, "roadway" is defined as "that portion of a road which is provided primarily for the use of vehicles".

What I don't know is whether there is any law prohibiting/limiting vehicles from being driven in a hard shoulder and, if so, if there is any exemption for bicycles. I think there is definitely a law regarding motorways, but I don't know about other road categories.

Not sure about bicycles, but the "rules of the road" I learned (a long time ago) for the test stated it was illegal to drive a vehicle on the hard shoulder, except in very specific circumstances (turning left, vehicle in front turning right, etc.).

Bloggsie

funnyclub wrote: »

Thanks all for your advice.

One thing i did notice yesterday as i said it was my 1st time out on the bike was the dangers on the road for cyclists, especially when buses or trucks go by you you really get blown about a bit and could get caught out if you werent expecting it!

hi funnyclub, your last comment is the very reason why I never wear earphones when cycling, you have to be able to hear what is coming from behind. I find that the only issue I have with people overtaking is with young numpties in their souped up micra, starlets etc, they dont have the gumption to move over & give cyclists some room. the majority of other road users will give you space. as for cycling in the hard shoulder I tend not to as it is full of crap mostly or there are over hanging branches that'll take the head off you!

I was advised once by a seasoned cyclist to "be a car, if they cant overtake you, they wont, dont be bullied into the hard shoulder by some other twat!"

stay in the saddle you will enjoy it!

Chips Lovell

Zzippy wrote: »

Not sure about bicycles, but the "rules of the road" I learned (a long time ago) for the test stated it was illegal to drive a vehicle on the hard shoulder, except in very specific circumstances (turning left, vehicle in front turning right, etc.).

I found that alright. I haven't been able to find the corresponding legislation. The ROTR has, on occasion, been wrong about some things.

NomadicGray

Beasty wrote: »

In Ireland cycling 2 abreast is permitted wherever cycling on the road is permitted. 3 abreast is only permitted when overtaking

Does the same go for a road that has a cycle path?

Lumen

NomadicGray wrote: »

Does the same go for a road that has a cycle path?

Yes, for any definition of "cycle path".

ford2600

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Some initial examination of legislation reveals that a hard shoulder is included in the legal definition of a "road".

1993 Roads Act has a rather broad definition

“road” includes—

(a) any street, lane, footpath, square, court, alley or passage,

(b) any bridge, viaduct, underpass, subway, tunnel, overpass, overbridge, flyover, carriageway (whether single or multiple), pavement or footway,

(c) any weighbridge or other facility for the weighing or inspection of vehicles, toll plaza or other facility for the collection of tolls, service area, emergency telephone, first aid post, culvert, arch, gulley, railing, fence, wall, barrier, guardrail, margin, kerb, lay-by, hard shoulder, island, pedestrian refuge, median, central reserve, channelliser, roundabout, gantry, pole, ramp, bollard, pipe, wire, cable, sign, signal or lighting forming part of the road, and

(d) any other structure or thing forming part of the road and—

(i) necessary for the safety, convenience or amenity of road users or for the construction, maintenance, operation or management of the road or for the protection of the environment, or

(ii) prescribed by the Minister;

funnyclub

Funnily when i came home after my cycle the Rsa advert was only the telly and while there was no hard shoulder in the ad, the message i got from it is people in motor vehicles should respect cyclists, give them plenty of room and expect the unexpected!

07Lapierre

funnyclub wrote: »

Funnily when i came home after my cycle the Rsa advert was only the telly and while there was no hard shoulder in the ad, the message i got from it is people in motor vehicles should respect cyclists, give them plenty of room and expect the unexpected!

the key word there is "Should"