Most accurate hurling placed ball takers

Comordha

Anyone got any stats from last year or from the opening game between Cork and Waterford?

So far in legaue and opening Champship games this year I would say that Pauric Mahony (Waterford), Pat Horgan (Cork) and TJ Reid (KK) have been the most accurate.

I felt Paul Ryan for Dublin was one of the least accurate last year and scoffed some frees in the semi-final against Cork that may have cost them the game.

Seamus Callanan for Tipperary is accurate but I wouldn't say as accurate as the top 3. He is certainly more accurate than some other Tipp takers over the past 2-3 years.

Galway will need to decide on Canning or another.

TJ Reid follows Larkin who was also an extremely accurate taker, both probably more accurate than Richie Power who took them for a while.

Seems to be a vital part of the modern game and eventually winning an All-Ireland.

Fireball07

While accuracy is all well and good, much like kicking percentages in rugby, I feel that it doesn't factor in how difficult the frees are.


For example, I think Pauric Mahony missed 1 or 2 long-distance ones against Cork, while certain free-takers only take them from inside the '65 and would never have to take ones from that distance.


How about if a free was originally intended as a shot but it drops in and around the square in the end? You'll never know for sure... similarly, how about if a free-taker overhits one that he meant to drop in and it goes wide? Does that count as a missed one?

Comordha

Comordha wrote: »

Galway will need to decide on Canning or another.

Canning used to be unbelievable.

He started to dip coming into 2012, as evidenced none more so than the miss in the 70th minute of the drawn AI when down by a point.

Just rechecked it there for clarity(:() and it was just outside the 45 metre line in a fairly central position(more than half way in from the line to the centre circle)
Granted he hit a belter to earn the draw, but that probably cost us the AI. If that lands over then you're playing for the win instead of snatching that draw.

This continued on into 2013 where he had a number of poor misses that could have lead to a different outcome, missed a simple free against Dublin in the LF when we lead by about 2/3 points.
Dublin then went and got a few and next thing we're buried.

I'm not sure is it an age issue, as he got a bit older he practised less as he used to be a dead eye from any angle.

Cooney took over when he missed the league this year and continued on them even after his return so he's second choice now.

beggars_bush

Hurling teams need two freetakers - one from the left and one from the right, like in football. Its usually overlooked

marco_polo

beggars_bush wrote: »

Hurling teams need two freetakers - one from the left and one from the right, like in football. Its usually overlooked

Don't think it is anywhere near as important in hurling, I'd love to see some stats but I'd be pretty confident that for any of the top intercounty freetakers, what side of the field the free is on would have a pretty low impact on % success rates.

Comordha

Might try track them somehow. Only scorable / within range frees could be counted however. I can remember Canning being lethal alright. Shefflin was once lethal once too but has also dropped a lot in accuracy terms. It could be age related insofar as you might practice them less. Eoin Kelly / Shefflin were both once amazingly accurate takers and dropped their accuracy levels a lot over the past 3yrs.

Comordha

Comordha wrote: »

Shefflin was once lethal once too but has also dropped a lot in accuracy terms. It could be age related insofar as you might practice them less.

I was going to mention that as well as he dipped a lot over the past few years as well.
Though since it's not directly comparable to Canning with the age factor I left it aside.

Henry didn't dip until his 30s, so someone easing off the practice then isn't a big problem.
Canning was only around 25 when his started to dip.

That's Kilkennys biggest problem the past 2/3 years now.

You could have any of Larkin, Power, Hogan or Shefflin taking them.... and if IIRC TJ Reid took them in the League Semi?... also missed an unbelievably easy one too.

They've been doing so much chopping and changing between 4/5 takers the past few years.
Another reason we should have beat them in 2012(missed a tonne in the LF). Though it must be said, Henry went back on them when it mattered in the drawn game and hit them very well :mad:

Comordha

Shane Dowling delivered an extremely impressive display the last day on placed ball duty. Each one went dead centre over and many were form difficult angles / positions.

donnem33

Im surprised Colin Ryan of Clare has not been mentioned yet!

Comordha

He is extremely accurate and up there with the top 5 but I'm not sure he has the penalty scoring ability of Dowling or TJ Reid.

I'm going to say the top 5 at present, in no particular order, are -

1. Shane Dowling (Limerick)
2. Colin Ryan (Clare)
3. Pat Horgan (Cork)
4. TJ Reid (Kilkenny)
5. Pauric Mahony (Waterford)

donnem33

Comordha wrote: »

He is extremely accurate and up there with the top 5 but I'm not sure he has the penalty scoring ability of Dowling or TJ Reid.

I'm going to say the top 5 at present, in no particular order, are -

1. Shane Dowling (Limerick)
2. Colin Ryan (Clare)
3. Pat Horgan (Cork)
4. TJ Reid (Kilkenny)
5. Pauric Mahony (Waterford)

I would have Seamus Callanan of Tipp and Conor Cooney of Galway and Paul Ryan of Dubin ahead of Shane Dowling

Comordha

Dowling's display the last day puts him in the top 5 for this year's champship.

Let's see how the others perform in future games. Callanan was 4/4 the last day but none of them were from overly testing angles / distances.

Paul Ryan missed some awful placed balls last year but in 2012 he was top dog, if he regains that form here is certain to be a top 5 marksman.

GrandSoftDay

Comordha wrote: »

He is extremely accurate and up there with the top 5 but I'm not sure he has the penalty scoring ability of Dowling or TJ Reid.

I'm going to say the top 5 at present, in no particular order, are -

1. Shane Dowling (Limerick)
2. Colin Ryan (Clare)
3. Pat Horgan (Cork)
4. TJ Reid (Kilkenny)
5. Pauric Mahony (Waterford)

Would love to know the actual stats, would rate Horgan above Colin Ryan and I'm a Clare man. He's a class act! Tony Kelly takes the penaltys and 21's for Clare so hard to compare him on that level.

djPSB

Seanie McMahon was lethal at the long range ones back in the day.

djPSB

Ger Farragher for Galway was also an excellent free taker and converted many the sideline cut too.

Fireball07

Comordha wrote: »

Dowling's display the last day puts him in the top 5 for this year's champship.

Let's see how the others perform in future games. Callanan was 4/4 the last day but none of them were from overly testing angles / distances.

Paul Ryan missed some awful placed balls last year but in 2012 he was top dog, if he regains that form here is certain to be a top 5 marksman.

You jinxed Dowling, had a poor night by his standards for the 21s.

He does miss the odd one or two every now and again, but is a beautiful striker of the ball. Horgan & Mahony are exceptional in that regard too. I'd actually have the two of them ahead of Reid.

Comordha

Fireball - my list is in no particular order yet. Maybe as the champo progresses we can start putting them in order.

citykat

donnem33 wrote: »

I would have Seamus Callanan of Tipp and Conor Cooney of Galway and Paul Ryan of Dubin ahead of Shane Dowling

Last year Paul Ryan was too unreliable for a free taker. Unless he has improved he wouldn't make my top five.

Comordha

Agreed citykat he was far too unreliable and was taken off them a few times. I don't think he'll be on them this year, I think McCrabber will be on them. Paul might even be in a fight for his position on the Dublin team I suspect.

Comordha

Can anyone tell me how the placed ball taking was over the weekend? Did Reid or Larkin take them for KK? Presume Horgan was deadly accurate for Cork? How was O'Mahony for Waterford?

aidan24326

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Canning used to be unbelievable.

He started to dip coming into 2012, as evidenced none more so than the miss in the 70th minute of the drawn AI when down by a point.

It's not just the freetaking, his overall level of performance has dipped. You're right that he used to be unbelievable, there was a time when his conversion rate from dead balls must have been up in the 95% range.

To be fair though I don't think he has been helped by a very poor management team** that have hindered rather than helped him with their utterly stupid tactics and their complete misuse of a player that can be an almost unmarkable inside forward if he's left in there and fed the right sort of ball.

**for evidence of that there are many examples but just think of the semi against Cork in 2012 when Galway actually won that game in spite of themselves, where the management team stuck with a hopelessly flawed tactic and only won the game because Cork simply weren't good enough to take advantage.

buck65

Colin Ryan was criminally overlooked for an All Star last year. His scoring rate from frees is a fantastic and a real art. Also his contribution from play is often underestimated, he often chips in with a point or two from play and consistently wins puck outs on his wing.

In the AI replay last year he won at least 5 puck outs in a row!

Until Dowling does it on the bigger stage IE Croke Park in a final or semi you can't rate him yet. He has the talent but big game nerves when you are expected to score is the time to prove it.

I would rate Pat Horgan no.1 with Ryan no. 2. Bar Shefflin in his prime there is no-one else operationg at this level on the big day.

Fireball07

Comordha wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how the placed ball taking was over the weekend? Did Reid or Larkin take them for KK? Presume Horgan was deadly accurate for Cork? How was O'Mahony for Waterford?

Reid took them for KK afaik, but only saw highlights of that game so don't know how he got on.


Watched Cork-Waterford but the stream was very jumpy... I remember Mahony missing one from about halfway. Don't remember Horgan missing any, he didn't get many frees tbh.

buck65 wrote: »

Colin Ryan was criminally overlooked for an All Star last year. His scoring rate from frees is a fantastic and a real art. Also his contribution from play is often underestimated, he often chips in with a point or two from play and consistently wins puck outs on his wing.

In the AI replay last year he won at least 5 puck outs in a row!

Until Dowling does it on the bigger stage IE Croke Park in a final or semi you can't rate him yet. He has the talent but big game nerves when you are expected to score is the time to prove it.

I would rate Pat Horgan no.1 with Ryan no. 2. Bar Shefflin in his prime there is no-one else operationg at this level on the big day.

How about if Dowling never gets to an All-Ireland final? He's slotted over frees in Munster finals for club and county, in Croke Park last year and in the Munster Championship. In terms of free-taking, I've seen him miss a few, but I've never seen nerves visibly affect him.


And Ryan had a couple of dodgy days last year, I know he's generally great, but I think Dowling/Mahony are slightly more consistent.

dastardly00

Comordha wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how the placed ball taking was over the weekend? Did Reid or Larkin take them for KK? Presume Horgan was deadly accurate for Cork? How was O'Mahony for Waterford?

TJ Reid took them for KK. I'm pretty sure he scored 2 out of 4. The 2 that he scored were very easy. And the 2 that he missed weren't from too hard an angle or too far out.

yellow50HX

Fireball07 wrote: »

Reid took them for KK afaik, but only saw highlights of that game so don't know how he got on.


Watched Cork-Waterford but the stream was very jumpy... I remember Mahony missing one from about halfway. Don't remember Horgan missing any, he didn't get many frees tbh.




How about if Dowling never gets to an All-Ireland final? He's slotted over frees in Munster finals for club and county, in Croke Park last year and in the Munster Championship. In terms of free-taking, I've seen him miss a few, but I've never seen nerves visibly affect him.


And Ryan had a couple of dodgy days last year, I know he's generally great, but I think Dowling/Mahony are slightly more consistent.

In fairness to dowling he came off the bench last year and kept limerick in the game. TBH he should have been brought on earlier if only for his frees.

O'mahoney was strangely poor the last day considering he didn't miss anything the 1st day. Horgan missed one very scorable free the 1st day nailed everything the second.

A reliable free taker is invaluable as it puts out a massive warning to teams not to give away frees.

citykat

aidan24326 wrote: »

It's not just the freetaking, his overall level of performance has dipped. You're right that he used to be unbelievable, there was a time when his conversion rate from dead balls must have been up in the 95% range.

To be fair though I don't think he has been helped by a very poor management team** that have hindered rather than helped him with their utterly stupid tactics and their complete misuse of a player that can be an almost unmarkable inside forward if he's left in there and fed the right sort of ball.

DJ Carey was once asked what type of ball did he like delivered. He replied he didn't care. As far as he was concerned, the backs had enough to be doing defending to be worrying what kind of ball they should be delivering. His opinion was it didn't matter what type of ball was delivered, it was up to him to win it.

Comordha

Thanks for updates. O'Mahony was probably off with the rest of the Waterford team. Will track Horgan & Colin Ryan's accuracy ratios the next day. Once quarters start I might try track all scorable placed balls for all takers.

Amprodude

Hannon for Limerick v Clare 2013 in the Semi Final.

dastardly00

I'd have to put Patrick Horgan as #1. Not just based on his performance today, he always seems to be very clinical.

Comordha

Definitely yes.
Horgan #1 in this Champo so far.
He hit 100% from placed balls to rack up 2-11 yesterday, Think he has only missed one in 3 games thus far.
Colin Ryan hit 66% (4/6).

Comordha

Cooney was impressive for Galway last Sunday. Don't think he missed one and many were from very difficult angles.
TJ Reid was also very accurate but certainly had at least one wide.

Thought Canning's penalties were nowhere near as lethal as a Reid or Horgan blaster but he still scored them which is what counts.

dastardly00

Comordha wrote: »

Cooney was impressive for Galway last Sunday. Don't think he missed one and many were from very difficult angles.
TJ Reid was also very accurate but certainly had at least one wide.

Thought Canning's penalties were nowhere near as lethal as a Reid or Horgan blaster but he still scored them which is what counts.

Cooney definitely missed one as well.

I remember in the first half saying to the man sitting beside me that I didn't think Reid & Cooney were going to miss any frees because they were so impressive..... Then TJ missed his next placed ball, and Cooney missed a 65 just before halftime.

Nonetheless, both were excellent.

PlayByTheRules

Thought I might kick-start this discussion again after 2017 league. John McGrath missed some costly chances yesterday. Callanan is good but scoffed a few this year too. Canning was solid on them throughout league. Conor McDonald and Lee Chin missed some howlers vs. Tipperary. Conor Mc hits them way too high, wind seems to always grab a hold of them. TJ is still #1 for me, he has a serious technique that keeps them low like bullets.

zetecescort

off topic but is balancing the ball on the hurley still against the rules?

PlayByTheRules

zetecescort wrote: »

off topic but is balancing the ball on the hurley still against the rules?

Think so yes but difficult to regulate.

Bonniedog

David Treacy is a good free taker.

Best ever I saw was Keher. Hardly ever missed.

zetecescort

Bonniedog wrote: »

David Treacy is a good free taker.

Best ever I saw was Keher. Hardly ever missed.

Not sure is it Treacy but there is a freetaker for Dublin who is about the only one who doesn't balance the ball on the hurley. have seen him miss the odd free because of it, lifted the ball too far in front of himself

PlayByTheRules

Treacy's technique is very unusual and he also tends to sky the ball quite high which can be a problem on windy days.