Rules of Golf - Re-entry singles

adrian7444

I am enquiring as to whether a golf club is allowed to run re-entry singles competitions over 3 days in some cases during their open week. It is my understanding that this is not allowed for a combination of reasons;

Practice
Rule 7-1 provides that a player may practise on the competition course before a round on any day of a match play competition, but a competitor in stroke play must not practise before a round or play-off on any day of a stroke play competition or test the surface of any putting green on the course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface. See example 1.

Question 1:
I play on day one and again on day 2 - am I not deemed to have practised on the course before a round?

Question 2:
I play on day one and again on day 2 - what handicap do I use on day 2 if I get cut? What CSS is applied in order to adjust my handicap? Surely the CSS should be decided at the end of the competition not at the end of each day?

Question 3: Fairness
The weather conditions for day 1 are worst than day 2? does this not give advantage to players who play on day 2?

slave1

I think your question 3 is mute, sure it could be bucketing it in the morning and perfect in the afternoon, all on one day so your two/three day question is irrelevant.
On question 2, your competition handicap is per the start, no adjustment after the round which would be typical in some Captain's prize where there's a 9 hole playoff after a full round in the morning/early afternoon in smaller clubs.

SaveOurLyric

You are 'allowed' to do anything you like. Scrambles, classics, etc dont conform to any external rules other than the ones you declare yourself.
So re-entry is fine but becomes non-qualifying according to Congu. Effectively, its not a regulated GUI/ILGU conforming competition with handicap adjustments.

BTW, weather condition can change in 5 minutes in this country - tough!

adrian7444

actually you are wrong for your answer to question 2 I just got a response from the GUI - perhaps you misunderstood the question. I will forward a response if you want to have a look, thanks

adrian7444

it is not a scrambe - I am referring to an open singles competition over multiple days (single qualifying competition) and question 3 referred to timesheet hoppers not the misfortune of the golfer who plays in morning rain rather that afternoon sunshine.

The point I am trying to make is that clubs are running singles competitions over multiple days because the don't have sponsorship for each day (saving money) however they are not advertising the fact to competitors. I work during the week and have only one day to play e.g. Sat... another competitor re-enters the same competition and plays 3 times...

1 competition over 3 days during open week as opposed to ........
3 competitions over 3 days

Wombatman

I often play a casual round on the Sat and enter the qualifying comp on Sunday over the same course. Is this breaking the rules?

Rikand

Wombatman wrote: »

I often play a casual round on the Sat and enter the qualifying comp on Sunday over the same course. Is this breaking the rules?

if there's no change in the course then yes. If i do that, i usually play off different tees for practice on sat, that way you are sure to be playing a different course. ( yellow markers instead of white markers, etc )

Rikand

In answer to the OP, a re-entry competition is not legal for cutting purposes with the GUI. Your question 1 covers that pretty well...

what we do in Athlone if we have an open weekend we split the competition into 2 competitions. Friday and Saturday are comp1. Sunday and Monday are comp 2. This allows entrants to play twice at the weekend if they wish

bmc58

If a club runs a two day comp,and they give a "Daily Prize " each day the comp runs this covers the two day comp.
And if you play both days and the first day you better your h/c you MUST cut yourself according to The Standard Scratch of the course irrespective of a CSS being published for that day.
EG, Sat you score 38 pts and the course SSS is 36, you must cut yourself 2 portions of your h/c category.

EG.. h/c 12.6(13)Sat ..38pts, cut yourself .6 .Play Sun 12(12.2)
h/c 11.6(12) Sat..38pts, cut yourself .4. Play Sun 11 (11.4)

If you play badly and get a .1 back and that would increase your h/c from say 13.4 to 13.5 (14) you CANNOT play off 14.This raise in your h/c must be posted before you play off your new upped handicap.You cannot up your h/c yourself,but you must cut yourself if you better your h/c.

Wombatman

Rikand wrote: »

if there's no change in the course then yes. If i do that, i usually play off different tees for practice on sat, that way you are sure to be playing a different course. ( yellow markers instead of white markers, etc )

Wow. Genuinely surprised by this. Loads of guys in my club play casual on Sat and in the comp on Sunday and think nothing of it.

Is this true of other Clubs? Our weekend comp usually runs over Saturday and Sunday.

GreeBo

Wombatman wrote: »

Wow. Genuinely surprised by this. Loads of guys in my club play casual on Sat and in the comp on Sunday and think nothing of it.

Is this true of other Clubs? Our weekend comp usually runs over Saturday and Sunday.

Local rule can allow this.

OP I'm still a little confused.
You are talking about an 18 hole comp, that runs for 3 days right?

Russman

Rikand wrote: »

if there's no change in the course then yes. If i do that, i usually play off different tees for practice on sat, that way you are sure to be playing a different course. ( yellow markers instead of white markers, etc )

Clubs can have a local rule allowing this - from memory its an odd one in that the local rule must be in place to allow practice and the default is that playing the day before is outlawed, you'd think that as its a different day the default would be that a rule is needed to ban practice, or maybe that's just me ! I mailed the R&A about it a couple of months ago, have since deleted their reply, but its posted on a thread here somewhere.

I don't think it makes any difference what markers you use though, the course is the course afaik, if there's no local rule in place.

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

Clubs can have a local rule allowing this - from memory its an odd one in that the local rule must be in place to allow practice and the default is that playing the day before is outlawed, you'd think that as its a different day the default would be that a rule is needed to ban practice, or maybe that's just me ! I mailed the R&A about it a couple of months ago, have since deleted their reply, but its posted on a thread here somewhere.

I don't think it makes any difference what markers you use though, the course is the course afaik, if there's no local rule in place.

Different markers would be a different course I assume, otherwise why is the SSS listed for each?

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

Different markers would be a different course I assume, otherwise why is the SSS listed for each?

Fair point, but I don't think you'd have much joy if there wasn't a local rule in the op's scenario and you played/practiced the day before from different tees and claimed you practiced on a different course.........?

Norfolk Enchants_

OP this sounds more like a CONGU issue than a Rules of Golf issue.
Look up their handbook as most scenarios are covered.

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

Fair point, but I don't think you'd have much joy if there wasn't a local rule in the op's scenario and you played/practiced the day before from different tees and claimed you practiced on a different course.........?

Then you are dependent on them changing the pins before you can play in advance of your round....what if the pins are only changed once a week?

Also, lots of courses only have 2 pin positions (one covered with fake hole) in that case 50% of the time you would be "practicing" on the course.

Blue (competition) tees are only to be used in competitions in ours.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

Then you are dependent on them changing the pins before you can play in advance of your round....what if the pins are only changed once a week?

Also, lots of courses only have 2 pin positions (one covered with fake hole) in that case 50% of the time you would be "practicing" on the course.

Blue (competition) tees are only to be used in competitions in ours.

Yes, but if we're dealing with practicing before a competition, (in this case the day before), the local rule is the requirement when its different days. So, if the local rule is not present, I would assume the situation is then the same a "normal" practice on the course before playing issue, which is forbidden. I can't go out and play 6 holes off the ladies tees before the monthly medal and claim I wasn't practicing on the course because I played off different tees, can I ?

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

Yes, but if we're dealing with practicing before a competition, (in this case the day before), the local rule is the requirement when its different days. So, if the local rule is not present, I would assume the situation is then the same a "normal" practice on the course before playing issue, which is forbidden. I can't go out and play 6 holes off the ladies tees before the monthly medal and claim I wasn't practicing on the course because I played off different tees, can I ?

Can you play the Wednesday open before the weekend then, if the pins are in the same position all week?
What makes it not practicing?

In your example I would say that you couldn't, because you would be testing the greens (before a singles game you cant have some practice putts on the 18th, you can in a match however)

So I'm just not sure when its practicing and when not (we have a local rule so its not really an issue for me)
Is it only if the same competition is on the you "practice"?

golfrules

GreeBo wrote: »

Can you play the Wednesday open before the weekend then, if the pins are in the same position all week?
What makes it not practicing?

In your example I would say that you couldn't, because you would be testing the greens (before a singles game you cant have some practice putts on the 18th, you can in a match however)

So I'm just not sure when its practicing and when not (we have a local rule so its not really an issue for me)
Is it only if the same competition is on the you "practice"?

On our course you can play either Saturday or Sunday . Ss done for both days. we have a rule re alternate day. "When players have a choice between main day or alternate day participation for a singles competition , in terms of Rule 7-1b of the rules of golf, any player who elects to play on the 2nd day of the competition is permitted to play on the competition course on the first day of the said competition. This is required to permit those players not competing on the alternate day to be able to play on the course without being deemed to have practiced the course. Under no circumstances may any player compete twice in the same competition . "

princess poppy

Rikand wrote: »

if there's no change in the course then yes. If i do that, i usually play off different tees for practice on sat, that way you are sure to be playing a different course. ( yellow markers instead of white markers, etc )

As I understand it you are perfectly entitled to practice any course as long as it is not before a strokes competition

Rikand

This thread got confusing.... Fast.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

Can you play the Wednesday open before the weekend then, if the pins are in the same position all week?
What makes it not practicing?

In your example I would say that you couldn't, because you would be testing the greens (before a singles game you cant have some practice putts on the 18th, you can in a match however)

So I'm just not sure when its practicing and when not (we have a local rule so its not really an issue for me)
Is it only if the same competition is on the you "practice"?

I think in a two or three day comp, the issue is that the comp has already started. We used to open our Saturday comp for 2/3 hours on a Friday afternoon back in busier times, and afaik you could play up to, say 2pm on the Friday (ie before the Sat comp started) without any issues. Now, I've no idea if that was actually conforming with the rules at the time !! It didn't last long as I think only 3 regular fourballs used to enter on the Friday.

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

I think in a two or three day comp, the issue is that the comp has already started. We used to open our Saturday comp for 2/3 hours on a Friday afternoon back in busier times, and afaik you could play up to, say 2pm on the Friday (ie before the Sat comp started) without any issues. Now, I've no idea if that was actually conforming with the rules at the time !! It didn't last long as I think only 3 regular fourballs used to enter on the Friday.

Yeah I think it must be just once the comp starts, makes sense.

G1032

adrian7444 wrote: »

actually you are wrong for your answer to question 2 I just got a response from the GUI - perhaps you misunderstood the question. I will forward a response if you want to have a look, thanks

Hi Adrian
If you still have the response from the GUI to that question 2 could you please post or forward it on? (I realise this thread is 3 years old!)
Do competitors need to cut handicap during these 're-entry' competitions ? And if so based on what standard scratch?