Spraying at night.

Nekarsulm

I cannot remember whether it was on here or in the paper, but it seems France has banned day-light spraying of pesticides.

http://www.greenfudge.org/2014/05/04/france-bans-pesticide-use/

Now I know French farmers have a healthy disregard for Brussels based laws, but can tillage men on here see themselves complying, or indeed being able to comply , were it to be introduced here?

mahoney_j

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I cannot remember whether it was on here or in the paper, but it seems France has banned day-light spraying of pesticides.

http://www.greenfudge.org/2014/05/04/france-bans-pesticide-use/

Now I know French farmers have a healthy disregard for Brussels based laws, but can tillage men on here see themselves complying, or indeed being able to comply , were it to be introduced here?

It's ton protect the bee population or something I think ,sheba dog should know.cant see it been an issue as most of that work is proably done by gps

J.O. Farmer

Reading the link it looks like a French law but if it's a European law then it's another fantastic example of the type of thing that has gotten an apparent eurosceptic like ming the merciless elected and lead to the rise of the British Nationalist Party in the UK.

Base price

mahoney_j wrote: »

It's ton protect the bee population or something I think ,sheba dog should know.cant see it been an issue as most of that work is proably done by gps

I think you are correct. It has something to do with bees. What about night insects like moths etc.
I heard on Mooney radio show yesterday that there are 6 times more insects in the world than mammals & birds :eek:

J.O. Farmer

Base price wrote: »

I think you are correct. It has something to do with bees. What about night insects like moths etc.
I heard on Mooney radio show yesterday that there are 6 times more insects in the world than mammals & birds :eek:

Without having heard the show or having figures to hand that isn't far off reality.

RobertKK

The bee population needs protection for all of humanity.

It has been estimated if bees went extinct, humans wouldn't ba far behind them.
Bees and other pollinating insects will not be out at night, I think it is a good idea and worth a try if it helps bees.

sheebadog

It's just bureaucratic France at work again. Bee's are dying and nobody knows why. Neonicitinoids have been banned and it made no difference. Draza has been banned for other reasons. Ban, ban, ban is not the answer.
Growing crops is getting more and more difficult as the French keep banning products. Proper research is the answer. Find the problem and deal with it.

This problem is just giving the excuse to ban chemicals to the tree hugging brigade. Anyhow most of the spraying is done at night because of the high temperatures, but the French like to pontificate to the rest of Europe.


Rant over!!

GRASSorMUCK

It's abit like the new endocrine disruptors directive will eliminate most fungicides, limiting tank mixes to was 2/3 actives, all banned by buerocrates that think all chems are bad and need jobs for the masses as industry is exported to china so create a new army of pen pushers. Yet will happily allow these nasty chems be produced in the Eu and sold to non Eu states :rolleyes:

I think this is aimed more so at horticultural crops that can't live more than a few days without a dose of something it seems

Birdnuts

sheebadog wrote: »

It's just bureaucratic France at work again. Bee's are dying and nobody knows why. Neonicitinoids have been banned and it made no difference.


!

Isn't it a bit early to tell?? AFAIK they were only banned late last year on flowering crops. The problem I think is that they haven't looked at the alternative products that might be equally, if not more harmfull to bees. No point in banning something and it getting replaced with something worse!! In the US where the situation is even worse, they have found bees contaminated with a dozen different types of pesticides!!

Nekarsulm

Well we are suffering from Colony Collapse disorder all over the country, and in general, if you drew a line from limerick to Belfast, the amount of pesticide used north of that line would be a fraction of the rest of the country. But bees are still dying.

sheebadog

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

It's abit like the new endocrine disruptors directive will eliminate most fungicides, limiting tank mixes to was 2/3 actives, all banned by buerocrates that think all chems are bad and need jobs for the masses as industry is exported to china so create a new army of pen pushers. Yet will happily allow these nasty chems be produced in the Eu and sold to non Eu states :rolleyes:

I think this is aimed more so at horticultural crops that can't live more than a few days without a dose of something it seems

I have a belly full of the nonsensical shyte that French bureaucrats dream up.
One example GrassorMuck ; it's illegal here to mix Chlorothanonil with any other fungicide.

Did you ever hear such shyte???

Nekarsulm

What part of France are you based in, Sheebadog? We have friends living near Bourges, and some great tillage land thereabouts.

Birdnuts

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Well we are suffering from Colony Collapse disorder all over the country, and in general, if you drew a line from limerick to Belfast, the amount of pesticide used north of that line would be a fraction of the rest of the country. But bees are still dying.

No doubt that introduced bee parasites/diseases like the varroa mite etc. also play a role. Its probably a combination of these pressures that are hammering bees. Obviously some of these factors are easier to address than others.

sheebadog

Nekarsulm wrote: »

What part of France are you based in, Sheebadog? We have friends living near Bourges, and some great tillage land thereabouts.

I'm west of Bourges. Good land from there all the way to Tours. Topsoil can be a bit shallow around there though.

GRASSorMUCK

sheebadog wrote: »

I have a belly full of the nonsensical shyte that French bureaucrats dream up.
One example GrassorMuck ; it's illegal here to mix Chlorothanonil with any other fungicide.

Did you ever hear such shyte???

So it's basicaly the back bone of most fungicide programmes and the safest in terms of developing resistance is simply left out? I can't see many guys going a second time with one chem like?, must cut out alot of blends then so you can buy straights more so.
Am i right in thinking you don't have as many agronomists in France more so it's state advisory services the Chambre de agriculture? Also ye can get crazy high fines on sfp if caught doing anything wrong?

sheebadog

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

So it's basicaly the back bone of most fungicide programmes and the safest in terms of developing resistance is simply left out? I can't see many guys going a second time with one chem like?, must cut out alot of blends then so you can buy straights more so.
Am i right in thinking you don't have as many agronomists in France more so it's state advisory services the Chambre de agriculture? Also ye can get crazy high fines on sfp if caught doing anything wrong?

Yep. Bang on with those points. Very hard to find a top agronomist that is independant. The state agronomists are not cutting edge as they have a safe lifetime job and don't keep up with things.
I use all the old chemistry anyhow. Tilt, Folicur, opus etc do just dandy as the pressure is much lower. Winter barley got one spray this year and to tell the truth it could have done without. Wheat got one and a half fungicides to finish.

SFP fines are : first fine= €3000
second fine = €44000
Third fine = €75000


BTW Chlorothanonil doesn't get left out at all, everybody chucks it in anyway.
Mixes including Chlorothanonil are hard to find.
Chuck in the Chlorothanonil and write on the register that you sprayed seperatly three days later.

GRASSorMUCK

sheebadog wrote: »

Yep. Bang on with those points. Very hard to find a top agronomist that is independant. The state agronomists are not cutting edge as they have a safe lifetime job and don't keep up with things.
I use all the old chemistry anyhow. Tilt, Folicur, opus etc do just dandy as the pressure is much lower. Winter barley got one spray this year and to tell the truth it could have done without. Wheat got one and a half fungicides to finish.

SFP fines are : first fine= €3000
second fine = €44000
Third fine = €75000


BTW Chlorothanonil doesn't get left out at all, everybody chucks it in anyway.
Mixes including Chlorothanonil are hard to find.
Chuck in the Chlorothanonil and write on the register that you sprayed seperatly three days later.

Ay we'll go with 4 runs of fungicide 3 hot mix one was fire brigade stop gap on milling wheats as worth the extra cost, on feed wheats we're in trouble as i'd like to whole crop about 75% as on our bad black grass ground or 300acre odd but hard to find buyers for so much other than ad plants who want to pay bugger all around here. So rather than grow really expensive whole crop we'll just grow expensive wholecrop and go standard 3 with older chemistry. Expect 3.5+t/acre depending on sunshine/rainfall as heavy ground.
Crops here look like an average year as fairly high disease pressure about, hope for a decent dry june there's lots of healthy upper leaves there so could be good.
Not WB but abit of SB which looks ok so far will get 2 maybe 3 runs depending on weather really for malting hopefully. anything over 2.5t/acre be happy
For what ever reason WBeans look fantastic little-no choc spot or anything. anything over 1.5/t acre be happy
Wosr is very mixed bag and seriously considering dropping or reducing acerage next year. yield expectation varies from field to field!
Soats look ok just on a 2 spray programe of cheaps see how yield either break my heart or wish i'd 10x's as much.
Growing some soya on light ground as due to take back some of estates land next year thats light so will help spread rotation.
Anyone want circa 1500 tones of whole crop wheat undersown with grass, not sure if BG gives decent forage though! :pac:

sheebadog

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

Ay we'll go with 4 runs of fungicide 3 hot mix one was fire brigade stop gap on milling wheats as worth the extra cost, on feed wheats we're in trouble as i'd like to whole crop about 75% as on our bad black grass ground or 300acre odd but hard to find buyers for so much other than ad plants who want to pay bugger all around here. So rather than grow really expensive whole crop we'll just grow expensive wholecrop and go standard 3 with older chemistry. Expect 3.5+t/acre depending on sunshine/rainfall as heavy ground.
Crops here look like an average year as fairly high disease pressure about, hope for a decent dry june there's lots of healthy upper leaves there so could be good.
Not WB but abit of SB which looks ok so far will get 2 maybe 3 runs depending on weather really for malting hopefully. anything over 2.5t/acre be happy
For what ever reason WBeans look fantastic little-no choc spot or anything. anything over 1.5/t acre be happy
Wosr is very mixed bag and seriously considering dropping or reducing acerage next year. yield expectation varies from field to field!
Soats look ok just on a 2 spray programe of cheaps see how yield either break my heart or wish i'd 10x's as much.
Growing some soya on light ground as due to take back some of estates land next year thats light so will help spread rotation.
Anyone want circa 1500 tones of whole crop wheat undersown with grass, not sure if BG gives decent forage though! :pac:

Looks like a very high pressure disease year for Northern Europe. Have WW, WB, SB, WOSR and beans in Ireland and I'm glad I went with robust rates of the best Chems at T0 and T1. Beans do look good, but the rest are a mixed bag especially the WOSR.

Really interested in the soya! Isn't it a long way north to be growing it?
What yields do you normally get?

GRASSorMUCK

sheebadog wrote: »

Looks like a very high pressure disease year for Northern Europe. Have WW, WB, SB, WOSR and beans in Ireland and I'm glad I went with robust rates of the best Chems at T0 and T1. Beans do look good, but the rest are a mixed bag especially the WOSR.

Really interested in the soya! Isn't it a long way north to be growing it?
What yields do you normally get?

Are you finding trouble keeping beans clean in the poorer patches?, seems they need an immediate start or else get rotten with weeds am finding in patches.
Just trying soya and see fi others are viable to see if will grow on a few small fields, this place was for years WW/WBeans/WB/Wosr and what ever they couldn't get in was S cropping. Doing 90% of work in 10 weeks of year meant big kit sitting about from early august to end of Oct bar maybe a week in Spring trying to get 60/40 idealy 50/50 split so get smaller kit as cost to change is just getting crazy.Also reason we now have such a BG problem due to too close wheat rotation.
We thought of T0 but by time could reasonably consider traveling place had dried up enough to restrict disease further. We'll wait and see what june july bringing before make guesses i suppose

sheebadog

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

Are you finding trouble keeping beans clean in the poorer patches?, seems they need an immediate start or else get rotten with weeds am finding in patches.
Just trying soya and see fi others are viable to see if will grow on a few small fields, this place was for years WW/WBeans/WB/Wosr and what ever they couldn't get in was S cropping. Doing 90% of work in 10 weeks of year meant big kit sitting about from early august to end of Oct bar maybe a week in Spring trying to get 60/40 idealy 50/50 split so get smaller kit as cost to change is just getting crazy.Also reason we now have such a BG problem due to too close wheat rotation.
We thought of T0 but by time could reasonably consider traveling place had dried up enough to restrict disease further. We'll wait and see what june july bringing before make guesses i suppose

Since Opugard was pulled weed control in beans is tricky. I use Nirvana, it's not a herbicide I'd be satisfied with.
Do you apply any nitrogen to the beans to get them away?

Couldn't agree more about kit!!
It's getting harder to justify the price of changing kit.
Often wonder how we managed 30 years ago when kit was handy. Yields haven't increased much in the last 30 years either.

GRASSorMUCK

sheebadog wrote: »

Since Opugard was pulled weed control in beans is tricky. I use Nirvana, it's not a herbicide I'd be satisfied with.
Do you apply any nitrogen to the beans to get them away?

Couldn't agree more about kit!!
It's getting harder to justify the price of changing kit.
Often wonder how we managed 30 years ago when kit was handy. Yields haven't increased much in the last 30 years either.

Usually just spread Map on and close gate with slight top up of left over an/urea which ever once up. Try go with elevated Potash in previous cereal. Considering going all liquid in future as at wide tram lines so can mean picking your day to spin fert, so make life easier as can go any time.

This farm used to have 15 tractors of various sizes 20 years ago and all that goes with it, now we've a large cultivations tractor and 2 175/210hp tractors with another hired at harvest and a small tracked machine hired for autumn secondary cultivations/drilling. Were replacing our larger secondary machine but changed our mind as not worth it for 550 odd hours year of which 500 is over 10 weeks!. Our main driver remembers pulling 6m cultivators with 200 odd horse 30 years ago, now he can struggle with same sized cultivator but over 2.5xs horse power whats gone wrong?!

sheebadog

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

Usually just spread Map on and close gate with slight top up of left over an/urea which ever once up. Try go with elevated Potash in previous cereal. Considering going all liquid in future as at wide tram lines so can mean picking your day to spin fert, so make life easier as can go any time.

This farm used to have 15 tractors of various sizes 20 years ago and all that goes with it, now we've a large cultivations tractor and 2 175/210hp tractors with another hired at harvest and a small tracked machine hired for autumn secondary cultivations/drilling. Were replacing our larger secondary machine but changed our mind as not worth it for 550 odd hours year of which 500 is over 10 weeks!. Our main driver remembers pulling 6m cultivators with 200 odd horse 30 years ago, now he can struggle with same sized cultivator but over 2.5xs horse power whats gone wrong?!

Personally I think that we have knackered soil structure to such a point that we've gotten into a vicious circle that's hard to get out of.
It will take a huge change of the way we farm to return soil to the way our grandparents had it.

GRASSorMUCK

sheebadog wrote: »

Personally I think that we have knackered soil structure to such a point that we've gotten into a vicious circle that's hard to get out of.
It will take a huge change of the way we farm to return soil to the way our grandparents had it.

Yep, pretty much that. Have started down the dd(eventually) route but first start off with green manures on winter fallows and looking for muck, thinking of auto-caster on combine header and quick k-tine pass before go combining next day by a student with old machine in hedge for establishment. Thoughts?, have seen some seriously encouraging examples localy but i guess it goes back to the ye olden days of mixed farms are best cereal farms, just going herding cows isn't near as 'cool' as being a 50k hero with twin beacons and 2 cb areals on a trailer for a barley baron contractor paying stupid rents to wreck land :pac:

Don't need to worry about ctf, the f##king sprayer which is way too F##king heavy UNLADEN has seen to that with 1 ft ruts in places but can finally get rid next spring.

sheebadog

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

Yep, pretty much that. Have started down the dd(eventually) route but first start off with green manures on winter fallows and looking for muck, thinking of auto-caster on combine header and quick k-tine pass before go combining next day by a student with old machine in hedge for establishment. Thoughts?, have seen some seriously encouraging examples localy but i guess it goes back to the ye olden days of mixed farms are best cereal farms, just going herding cows isn't near as 'cool' as being a 50k hero with twin beacons and 2 cb areals on a trailer for a barley baron contractor paying stupid rents to wreck land :pac:

Don't need to worry about ctf, the f##king sprayer which is way too F##king heavy UNLADEN has seen to that with 1 ft ruts in places but can finally get rid next spring.

Massive +1. I've nothing to add to that!
Let's face it a rusty gate will chit a seed at that time of year.

Is the sprayer the problem or the weather?

Bodacious

Thought i was seeing things when I saw this thread in Farming and Forestry

Nice work when you can get it !