Who should I sue?

Marian9

Hi everyone.
60 years ago, the Land Registry made a mistake on the mapping of my folio.
I never noticed it until now.
According to my folio, my front garden (small square piece of land where my front door opens) is not part of my property.
It might be important to note that nobody I have always used and taken care of my front garden and, being fenced for at least the last 40 years nobody but me has access to it.
So I sent a letter to the PRA for rectification of the folio.
The mistake being obvious (According to the plan I could not even get out of my house), the PRA has acknowledged it and in a letter to my neighbour, gave him notice that the PRA needs to rectify the error.
Here comes the problem: My neighbour does not want to sign the proposed rectification.
Anywhere else in the world, PRA would request a Court Order, but this is Ireland...
My question: Who should take on the problem? Me or the PRA?
Thank you.

GerardKeating

Marian9 wrote: »

Hi everyone.
60 years ago, the Land Registry made a mistake on the mapping of my folio.
I never noticed it until now.
According to my folio, my front garden (small square piece of land where my front door opens) is not part of my property.
It might be important to note that nobody I have always used and taken care of my front garden and, being fenced for at least the last 40 years nobody but me has access to it.
So I sent a letter to the PRA for rectification of the folio.
The mistake being obvious (According to the plan I could not even get out of my house), the PRA has acknowledged it and in a letter to my neighbour, gave him notice that the PRA needs to rectify the error.
Here comes the problem: My neighbour does not want to sign the proposed rectification.
Anywhere else in the world, PRA would request a Court Order, but this is Ireland...
My question: Who should take on the problem? Me or the PRA?
Thank you.

If you have had exclusive use of the land for the past 40 years, you should be able to claim adverse possession. You should ask a solicitor..

Marian9

I don't want to go into expenses...

Oryx

Marian9 wrote: »

I don't want to go into expenses...

You may not have a choice.

Zambia

If your car breaks down do you leave it at the side of the road for the same reason?

Marian9

OK, so when an administration like PRA makes and acknowledge having made a mistake, it is citizens business to rectify this mistake.
I guessed right, we are different from the rest of the world.

Marian9

Zambia wrote: »

If your car breaks down do you leave it at the side of the road for the same reason?

No, but in a restaurant, if my neighbour gets 3 eggs and me only one when we both ordered 2 fried eggs, I do not complain to my neighbour. I expect the waiter to sort out his mess.

Addle

Marian9 wrote: »

OK, so when an administration like PRA makes and acknowledge having made a mistake, it is citizens business to rectify this mistake.
I guessed right, we are different from the rest of the world.

If it was the PRAs mistake, they will fix it.
How has it taken so long to be noticed?
How long do you own the property?

Marian9

Addle wrote: »

If it was the PRAs mistake, they will fix it.
How has it taken so long to be noticed?
How long do you own the property?

I have received a letter from the PRA acknowledging the mistake in the original plan.
It has never been noticed because 60 years ago nobody got any plan.
Everything was fine until I decided to sell...only then I noticed the mistake.
It is really an obvious slip of a pencil.

Addle

Marian9 wrote: »

I have received a letter from the PRA acknowledging the mistake in the original plan.
It has never been noticed because 60 years ago nobody got any plan.
Everything was fine until I decided to sell...only then I noticed the mistake.
It is really an obvious slip of a pencil.

So you have the property 60 years?

No need to sue anyone. It sounds like it's being sorted.
How have you been put out? Is the error holding up a sale?

Marian9

Addle wrote: »

So you have the property 60 years?

No need to sue anyone. It sounds like it's being sorted.
How have you been put out? Is the error holding up a sale?

The problem is: The PRA needs the neighbour to agree on the modification of the map.
The slip of the pencil puts my front garden into my neighbour's property.

Addle

I had a similar type error fixed by the PRA two years ago and they didn't require my neighbours to sign anything.
The PRA wrote to them, told them about the mistake and that if they didn't have a (legitimate) objection, it would be rectified. They didn't have to sign anything, just not object.

Addle

Addle wrote: »

How long do you own the property?

Addle wrote: »

So you have the property 60 years?

Did you buy the property?

Marian9

Addle wrote: »

I had a similar type error fixed by the PRA two years ago and they didn't require my neighbours to sign anything.
The PRA wrote to them, told them about the mistake and that if they didn't have a (legitimate) objection, it would be rectified. They didn't have to sign anything, just not object.

Thank you, that is exactly the case.
But here my neighbour is objecting.

Marian9

Addle wrote: »

Did you buy the property?

Yes. And there was no map show at the time because the boundaries were of physical evidences: Walls and fences with absolutely no doubt of ownership.

Oryx

Do you normally get on with your neighbour? Any idea why they are being difficult?

Addle

Marian9 wrote: »

Yes. And there was no map show at the time because the boundaries were of physical evidences: Walls and fences with absolutely no doubt of ownership.

Well you were foolish to buy a property without view of the land registry map. That is lax work by your Solicitor.

Regarding the error, I imagine correspondence will be between the PRA and your neighbour only. If he hasn't a legitimate objection then his objection will delay the correction, not stop it.

Marian9

Oryx wrote: »

Do you normally get on with your neighbour? Any idea why they are being difficult?

Not too bad, but I guess he sees a cheap opportunity to annexe my front garden via an old mistake.

Marian9

Addle wrote: »

Well you were foolish to buy a property without view of the land registry map. That is lax work by your Solicitor.

Regarding the error, I imagine correspondence will be between the PRA and your neighbour only. If he hasn't a legitimate objection then his objection will delay the correction, not stop it.

You are right, but keep in mind what is written across the PRAs maps. The maps don't worth the paper they are printed on. Only physical elements define a boundary.
Regarding the error, if I understand, my sole interlocutor should only be the PRA. Right?

Addle

That was my experience.

Marian9

Addle wrote: »

That was my experience.

Thank you.

hfallada

The garden is yours. I know someone's family home is cork had no deeds as it was in the family for hundreds of years. But one of the neighbours claimed land was his. So they put up their own fences and claimed squatters rights several years later.


OP go to a solicitor and see what they recommend.

Addle

Marian9 wrote: »

You are right, but keep in mind what is written across the PRAs maps. The maps don't worth the paper they are printed on. Only physical elements define a boundary.

If that's the case, why the fuss about correcting the mistake?

Oryx

Addle wrote: »

If that's the case, why the fuss about correcting the mistake?

This:

Everything was fine until I decided to sell..

Marian9

Addle wrote: »

If that's the case, why the fuss about correcting the mistake?

In the eyes of most buyers, it looks better when the map matches the fences.
But you're right, I should have kept it quiet.
Cheers

Marian9

hfallada wrote: »

The garden is yours. I know someone's family home is cork had no deeds as it was in the family for hundreds of years. But one of the neighbours claimed land was his. So they put up their own fences and claimed squatters rights several years later.


OP go to a solicitor and see what they recommend.

May be, but it is originally a mistake from the Administration. Should not the Administration take care of its mistakes once it has acknowledged them?

Addle

If you're selling, you probably already have a solicitor.
Did they point out the error to begin with?
What did they recommend?

Pat Mustard

Marian9 wrote: »

Yes. And there was no map show at the time because the boundaries were of physical evidences: Walls and fences with absolutely no doubt of ownership.

I assume that this is a Land Registry folio, rather than a Registry of Deeds title. There is always a map with a land registry folio. According to the land registry rules, there must have been a map. However, it is not clear if your solicitor recommended that the boundaries should be checked by an engineer at the time of purchase.

Marian9 wrote: »

In the eyes of most buyers, it looks better when the map matches the fences.
But you're right, I should have kept it quiet.
Cheers

If/when the property is sold, the solicitor for the purchaser is likely to recommend that the boundaries should be checked. You may be reasonably certain that this will happen, at some point or another. Therefore, the problem is likely to come to light again. It is not a problem that is likely to go away, as such.

In my experience neighbours may be reluctant to sign a deed of rectification to resolve boundary issues for two common reasons:
1. They don't understand it but they don't want to go to the expense of hiring their own solicitor to explain matters to them.
2. They are holding out for cash.

By and large, these things are often resolved by the party who wants to sort the issue agreeing to pay for the legal expenses of the other party. This might be a bit of an unfortunate expense, but it gets things done.

EDIT: If it is purely a Land Registry mistake, they can be pretty reasonable to deal with, as regards making the appropriate corrections. They would need maps to prove to them where the error lies and how it arose, etc.

degsie

The thread title makes you come across as litigious! You should talk to your neighbour and find out what the deal is.

Little CuChulainn

Ask your solicitor to write to him explaining adverse posession and advising him of the potential costs of trying to enforce a false claim on your property which include, but are not limited to, any financial loss resulting in delaying the sale of you home and your legal costs.

padser

Marian9 wrote: »

May be, but it is originally a mistake from the Administration. Should not the Administration take care of its mistakes once it has acknowledged them?

Did you ever get this sorted? Did the hedge issue arise out of this?

nuac

Have you checked whether or what map was lodged with your application for registration?

Marian9

Different story, same blurriness of the law...Takes ages, everybody knows the music, but no one knows the lyrics...
To your knowledge, is there anything more efficient than Board.ie?

The_Morrigan

Marian9 wrote: »

Different story, same blurriness of the law...Takes ages, everybody knows the music, but no one knows the lyrics...
To your knowledge, is there anything more efficient than Board.ie?

Efficient in what way?

Marian9

Reliable answers from knowledgeable sources would do, but your question says it all.
Sorry I asked.

The_Morrigan

Marian9 wrote: »

Reliable answers from knowledgeable sources would do, but your question says it all.
Sorry I asked.

If you want reliable answers you need to seek professional advice, you can't rely on strangers from the internet giving you advice on legal matters.

Peregrinus

Marian9 wrote: »

May be, but it is originally a mistake from the Administration. Should not the Administration take care of its mistakes once it has acknowledged them?

There have been a couple of mistakes along the way, but they are not necessarily the Administration's mistakes.

The first mistake was made when the erroneous map was drawn up around sixty years ago. Back then, the map was not drawn up by the Administration(or its predecessor); it was drawn up by surveyor hired by the person seeking to register the title, and submitted as part of the registration process by that person. That person submitted a map showing the land they wanted to register, but failing to show the part which is now your front garden. That's not the administration's fault.

The second mistake was made when you bought the land from that person (or from some successor in title to that person). You, or your advisers, failed to spot that the map on title did not correspond to the plot you thought you were buying.

I don't see that the Adminstration is repsonsible for either of these errors. The people who committed the errors, the people best positioned to spot the errors, and the people with a financial interest in getting the thing right are responsible.

You are now the person with a financial interest in rectifying the error, and I don't see why taxpayers' money should be spent to sort it out. If you have a claim against anybody for reimbursement, it should be against the advisers who acted for you in the acquisition of the property. They should have shown you the map, and asked you to confirm that it showed the plot you thought you were buying. If they did that, and you failed to spot that it didn't, I don't see that you have a remedy against anyone.

ice.cube

Marian9 wrote:

Reliable answers from knowledgeable sources would do, but your question says it all. Sorry I asked.

You have got decent value for money on the advice you have recieved so far, no need to get smart with people that are trying to help. Reliable answers from knowledgeable sources can be got from a solicitor which will cost you money. Although i guess you could try getting in contact with the free legal advice centre first.

Beano

Marian9 wrote: »

Reliable answers from knowledgeable sources would do, but your question says it all.
Sorry I asked.

You should look up a lad called Ben Gilroy. He has a facebook page where he doles out legal advice for free.