Cannot get a single to tune to Astra2B

TheCeltictiger

Hi there,

I have done many sat set up for friends and family and usually have little difficulty getting up and running with all FTA channels.But I am completely stumped with my latest install effort at my mobile home.

I cannot get a signal when trying to tune my Sky dish to Astra 2B. I have troubleshooter this to every possible fault but still cannot figure out what the issue is.

I have 3 of the tuners that you have an earphone to here the signal pitch. None of these are giving me any sound. I have replaced dish/lnb with a new sky dish and mounted it on the the same pole.
I have tried two different receivers. I have ran new cable, replaced all the connectors and still no singal. On the TV screen the receiver signal intensity bar never goes above zero and the signal quality jumps between 0-14%.

Whenever I tuned a dish previously I would always here a tone in the earpiece but I have not heard a tingle even trying different tuners. I do get a little tingle of a current when screwing in the connectors.

As I said I have tried everything that I can think of anyone any suggestions as this is doing my head in.

Ice Lake

So this dish can "see" the relevant part of the sky? In Ireland, elevation angle of around 20 degrees for the satellites at 28 degrees east.

Dishpointer.com has a "line of sight checker" that shows the max. height an obstacle can be at any point along where the dish is "looking".

preytec

If your near Lucan I could help you with it. I've got one of them sat finders with the TV screen on it. You do have the 12v turned on in the sat box?

TheCeltictiger

Thanks for the offer preytec but I am just outside Dingle in Kerry.

As I said previously I have tuned numerous dishes previously, all without much a fuss. I had this dish tuned previously but it was knocked out of position by the winds back in January. I am a complete loss to why I cannot even get and audio pitch from my sat finder when they to set up the dish.
So far I have tried to tune the dish by,
- Using the existing cable and also ran a new cable from the TV to the dish with new connectors.
- Tried two different Sat receivers (same model Silvercrest)
- Put up a new dish with new Quad LNB
- Used three different Sat tuners none of which indicate noise pitch or movement on the light indicator gauge
- I have raised the Sat dish position by three feet

Any idea what I should try next as my normal sequence of events when tuning is connect up the Sat tuner and I will hear a dull flat noise pitch and by adjusting the dish this noise pitch would get higher to indicate that I am aligned to Satellite. But I cannot get anywhere with my latest set up, any suggestions or help is great appreciated.

Regards,
TheCeltictiger

dickieh

I think it moved to 31.5°E ?

STB

I gather the chap is trying to position the satellite at 28.2E.

Rather than messing with signal meter that may or may not be broken, if you have a satellite box already pre-tuned, stick it on Channel 5 and turn up the volume to the highest it can go on both the TV and the box.

Go out to the dish, position the elevation around 22 and swing the dish every so slightly until you hear the station coming in, you can then fine tune from there. Channel 5 is one stongest signals on 28.2. Sky News is weak. Use that for fine tuning.

Ice Lake

TheCeltictiger wrote: »

my normal sequence of events when tuning is connect up the Sat tuner and I will hear a dull flat noise pitch and by adjusting the dish this noise pitch would get higher to indicate that I am aligned to Satellite. But I cannot get anywhere with my latest set up

So you're not even getting the "dull flat" sound? As if there's no power present, since it would be strange for all your sat.-finders to fail at the same time? (The "tingle" you mention in your OP is probably just leakage, wouldn't signify presence of the LNB power supply.)

If this is the case, you should 1st determine for certain if there is no power (multimeter would be useful) & 2nd, find out why. Someone already mentioned LNB power on/off in the receiver menu, however unlikely that this would be switched off in 2 of your receivers.

dickieh

Astra 2B (currently at Astra 31.5°E)

dickieh

The satellite was moved in February 2013 to the Astra 19.2°E position and then in January 2014 to the Astra 31.5°E slot

Ice Lake

I don't think the OP is looking for Astra 2B, despite the thread title. Why would anyone be looking for Astra 2B?

TheCeltictiger

Thanks for all the suggestions guys and apologies for the misleading sbject thread.

I am back home in Cork at the moment and will be going to my mobile home in Dingle for the long weekend. My next plan of attack is,

- Try another Sat receiver (Ariva Combo) which is pre tuned, and try a manual scan using Channel 5 as suggested by STB
- Use a multimeter to determine if there is current on the coaxial cable from the receiver to the dish
- Move the dish, even though I previously had it tuned in the position that it is currently
- Run yet another cable (this is clasping at straws, as I already have done this)

Can you tell me if I would hear a tone on the signal meter the moment I connect the cable to the LNB or is it when it is only on a Satellite ?

Any other suggestions are always appreciated,

Thanks
Celtictiger

STB

By Manual scan. I presume that you mean that you will have a pre-tuned box, that you can use for aligning the dish (dont scan on the box with a unalligned dish!).

Make sure the Ariva Combo has alll the latest channels (ie that they are working at home, before bringing it to Kerry).

Connect up the dish to the box as if the dish is still working, whack up the volume on both the TV and box, so you can hear the TV when you adjust the dish. Channel 5 and Channel 4 are strong.

You can then stick it on Sky News to tweak it to get the max signal, using the signal meter on the ariva combo (think its the white or edit button whilst on the channel).

Thats the way I would do it, without a meter.

Chances are that the dish has moved due to winds or perhaps water has got into the cable/f connectors are loose.

Ice Lake

TheCeltictiger wrote: »

- Move the dish, even though I previously had it tuned in the position that it is currently

You must have marked it, azimuth & elevation, when you originally set it up? Doesn't take much movement to knock it off.

TheCeltictiger wrote: »

Can you tell me if I would hear a tone on the signal meter the moment I connect the cable to the LNB or is it when it is only on a Satellite ?

IIRC, the low pitched tone should be there with those Lidl ones anyway, once they're connected up. Certainly with the receiver's own beeper, the tone is there once you switch it on.

TheCeltictiger

STB wrote: »

By Manual scan. I presume that you mean that you will have a pre-tuned box, that you can use for aligning the dish (dont scan on the box with a unalligned dish!).

Make sure the Ariva Combo has alll the latest channels (ie that they are working at home, before bringing it to Kerry).

Thanks again STB, The Ariva is in daily use here in Cork and is picking up all the FTA channels

STB wrote: »

Chances are that the dish has moved due to winds or perhaps water has got into the cable/f connectors are loose.

I know that the dish has moved as it was barely hanging on after the storms. I replaced the dish and have ran a whole new cable with new f connectors.

I will update you with my progress when i try again at the weekend

fat-tony

It's possible you shorted one or other end of the cable when you fitted the new cable and F-connectors. It just takes a whisker of braid to be touching the core to do it. The symptoms then would be no (or much reduced) voltage to the meter and LNB and consequently no tone or signal reception.

TheCeltictiger

fat-tony wrote: »

It's possible you shorted one or other end of the cable when you fitted the new cable and F-connectors. It just takes a whisker of braid to be touching the core to do it. The symptoms then would be no (or much reduced) voltage to the meter and LNB and consequently no tone or signal reception.

Thanks Tony,
I have been using a coaxial cable stripper tool so I would doubt that this is the issue. This being said I will definitely check and do fresh cut and attach new F connectors

Regards,
TheCeltictiger

TheCeltictiger

Apologies with the delay on providing an update with my quest to re-align my dish to 28.2E but today is the time that I have been back to my holiday home in Dingle.

After spending the last few hours at it, I am still no nearer to getting sorted. As I said previously on this thread I have set up numerous dishes previously all with little or no difficulty. I had my dish and my in-laws who have a mobile home next door working before but both were knocked off alignment during the winter storms.now both cannot get reset up.

I have brand new sky dish and quad lnb and have ran new cable with new f connectors. Normally all I do is use my sat finder (earpiece type that came with the Aldi sat) and listen for a tone and then fine tune the dish until the pitch of the tone gets higher.

I have tried three different types of sat finders and I do not hear a beep, tone or sign of life.

While trying to troubleshoot this I connected the sat finder direct to the receiver and straight away I get a tone/light indicator green and beep tone, but when I connect the cable that is connected to the lnb the sat finder goes lifeless as if it's shorting out.

This leads me to believe that the new coaxial cable that I ran may be the issue is there different types?

If I touch the lnb I get a little tingle of a shock which suggests that there is a current going to it.

Anyone got any other suggestions to what my problem is?

Anchises

Even tho you put on a new (2nd)LNB , I would try a third one. Possible you have got a new dud LNB ?

You could test the cable output of the receiver . There should be 13Volts or so between the centre and shield. (This varies for Horizontal /Vertical).
It the voltage lost when you connect the cable from the LNB ?

Could it be that the load on the cable is shorting the voltage to the lnb , due to a faulty receiver o/p stage ?

I'd favor replacing the lnb and of course confirm the cable connectors.

I'd also eliminate the meter and use a single cable from receiver to the LNB to
narrow down the issue.

A.

Oziero

TheCeltictiger wrote: »

While trying to troubleshoot this I connected the sat finder direct to the receiver and straight away I get a tone/light indicator green and beep tone, but when I connect the cable that is connected to the lnb the sat finder goes lifeless as if it's shorting out.

This leads me to believe that the new coaxial cable that I ran may be the issue is there different types?

Shorts are usually found in carelessly made connections, as mentioned already. Are you just blindly trusting this "cable stripper tool", or did you check for stray braid touching the cable inner conductor?

Is there any branding on the cable? (Maker's name & maybe something like "RG6" or "WF100".) Maybe a link to where you got it, if you want someone to take a look.

TheCeltictiger

Oziero wrote: »

Shorts are usually found in carelessly made connections, as mentioned already. Are you just blindly trusting this "cable stripper tool", or did you check for stray braid touching the cable inner conductor?

Is there any branding on the cable? (Maker's name & maybe something like "RG6" or "WF100".) Maybe a link to where you got it, if you want someone to take a look.

I am 100% certain that it is not a careless connection as there is no stray braid touching the core cable.

The coaxial cable that I am using is from a 100m reel that is manufactured by Deta and is RG6 low loss foam filled with 75Ω impedance.

Is this cable suitable ?

TheCeltictiger

Anchises wrote: »

Even tho you put on a new (2nd)LNB , I would try a third one. Possible you have got a new dud LNB ?

You could test the cable output of the receiver . There should be 13Volts or so between the centre and shield. (This varies for Horizontal /Vertical).
It the voltage lost when you connect the cable from the LNB ?

Could it be that the load on the cable is shorting the voltage to the lnb , due to a faulty receiver o/p stage ?

I'd favor replacing the lnb and of course confirm the cable connectors.

I'd also eliminate the meter and use a single cable from receiver to the LNB to
narrow down the issue.

A.

Thanks for the feedback Anchises

I will be back down to my holiday home next weekend and will try a third LNB as you suggest.
I also plan to bring a voltage meter to check if there is any loss of current on the cable up to the point of where it is attached to the LNB. (I have not used a voltage meter before but I will try and figure that out as I go)
I have already tried your suggestion of eliminating the meter and doing a straight connection direct from the receiver to the LNB with no success.

Oziero

TheCeltictiger wrote: »

The coaxial cable that I am using is from a 100m reel that is manufactured by Deta and is RG6 low loss foam filled with 75Ω impedance.

Is this cable suitable ?

Should be. Presumably there is a good contact between braid & f-connector, & hopefully no breaks in the braid or cable inner.

Anchises

Disconnect the cable from the receiver.

You should check with a voltmeter that you have the 13.5 volts (or thereabouts) at the receiver 'LNB in' connector. If you dont have a voltage reading there, the problem is the receiver.

If you have a voltage reading, connect the cable and now test for a voltage at the other (LNB) end of the cable. If it is not present there, then it has been lost within the cable.... due to a break somewhere. Highly unlikely if it's a new cable - but we'are clutching at straws here..

If it is lost somewhere in the cable, all bets are off....Hard to find a break location in a cable without some destructive testing.

If you've never used a volt meter before, be careful not to short out the cable core and outer braid while checking. While some receivers can tolerate a short on the cable, I think there are some that could be damaged by doing that.

BTW , you probably are using an OHMmeter , with ranges for Voltage (A/C, D/C), Resistance, etc. Ensure you are on a DC voltage range that includes the expected voltage... say 0 - 20V.


I'd still think the dish/lnb is the problem. Faulty LNB or dish pointing incorrect. Did you say what size the dish is ? I think getting a signal on some of the 'camping kit' sat receivers is very difficult.

You could cheat by trying for 19.2 analogue, where aligning the dish is a little easier. (you dont have to stop for a few seconds while swinging the dish) . If you found 19.2 then move eastwards to find 28.2.


A.

Oziero

Anchises wrote: »

You could cheat by trying for 19.2 analogue

19.2 analogue was switched off about 2 years ago.

TheCeltictiger

Anchises wrote: »

Disconnect the cable from the receiver.

I'd still think the dish/lnb is the problem. Faulty LNB or dish pointing incorrect. Did you say what size the dish is ? I think getting a signal on some of the 'camping kit' sat receivers is very difficult.

You could cheat by trying for 19.2 analogue, where aligning the dish is a little easier. (you dont have to stop for a few seconds while swinging the dish) . If you found 19.2 then move eastwards to find 28.2.


A.

Thanks again for the feedback Anchises and I will follow your steps to test with the voltage meter.

To answer your question on the dish is the standard 60cm sky dish with a quad LNB.

I do feel as if the signal is shorting out though as with all the dishes that I have set up previously I get a tone when I connect the Sat finder. I understand that 19.2 is easy to pick up and a slight adjustment from there will bring me to 28.2.

The troubleshooting that I did do also indicated to me that it must be a cable issue. I connected the sat finder direct to the receiver but not to the LNB and got an audio tone. When I replaced the short cable from sat finder with the newly ran cable to the same sat finder I did not get a tone.

Oziero

TheCeltictiger wrote: »

I connected the sat finder direct to the receiver but not to the LNB and got an audio tone. When I replaced the short cable from sat finder with the newly ran cable to the same sat finder I did not get a tone.

I thought from your other post, that you had left the sat. finder connected to the receiver by the short cable & then connected the cable from the LNB to the other connection on the sat. finder.

So it's actually just the newly run cable connected from receiver to sat. finder, without involving the LNB?

EDIT: I see you have explained that this is the case in your previous post. So as much chance of it just being a poor connection, as a short. Maybe you're removing too much of the braid?

Anchises

19.2 analogue was switched off about 2 years ago.

Your right

Somewhere in the back of my head I knew that
Fading grey cells .........

A.

Oziero

TheCeltictiger wrote: »

. . . I will be back down to my holiday home next weekend and will try a third LNB

If the 3rd LNB makes no difference, take a photo of the stripped cable end as it is before you fit the f-connector.

Is it just the twist-on connectors you are using?

Anchises

I'm sure you know this but:
#

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The F connector must be the Satellite type, not a Cable TV variety on which the inner hole is too small for the Satellite Cable inner core plastic. The small ones are nearly 3mm, the proper ones about 5mm.
#

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If you use the wrong one a short is very likely as the inner insulator will not fit throught the hole in the F connector. It, the insulation, should be a snug fit in the inner hole.

Lots of guides on the net about fitting F connectors, - but you fitted them before and should know

A.

MC39

Anchises wrote: »

The F connector must be the Satellite type, not a Cable TV variety on which the inner hole is too small for the Satellite Cable inner core plastic. The small ones are nearly 3mm, the proper ones about 5mm.

The inner hole? You mean where the cable inner conductor comes through? It only has to let the inner conductor through, with a bit of clearance, obviously. If the insulation comes through, the male connector won't mate fully with the female connector on the receiver or LNB.

If by 'Cable TV variety', you mean a connector for RG59 cable, you won't have a hope of getting that on to thicker cable, like RG6, so would be pretty obvious you have the wrong type.

TheCeltictiger

Thanks again for the feedback guys and I am certain that the satellite twist type F connector are fitted correctly with no braid touching the inner core.

My best guess is that the RG6 coaxial cable that I have been using may have a break or kink in the core and as a result is dropping or shorting the current. This cable is newly ran and fresh off the spool and was not stretched or roughly handled when I ran it from the receiver to the LNB, but I do not know what else it would be unless I am really jinxed and have two faulty LNBs, both the old one that I used previously and the new quad LNB that is straight out of the box.

I will give this another go when I get back down to my holiday home and I am sure with all the great assistance and advise that I am getting on here that I will eventually get this up and running.

Regards,
TheCeltictiger

Anchises

Assuming you can get both ends of the cable in your hands at the same time ->
Check the cable with an ohm meter to see if there is a break or short in either the core or braid.

If you have a perfect cable, a perfect LNB, a correctly aligned dish, a known good receiver and all your connections are correct, then we have a puzzle......that I can't understand.

A

fat-tony

You don't need both ends in your hand at one time. With a continuity tester (or ohmmeter) touch the centre core and collar of the F plug at one end. If you get continuity (or any reading other than infinity) there is a short. To test for a break, then deliberately short one end on the cable and check the other with the ohmmeter. You should get continuity or very low ohm reading. If neither, you have a break.

TheCeltictiger

Cheers guys I will keep ye posted ....may not get down to my holiday this weekend so it may take a week or so before you hear back from me.

pegasuspub

you should consider taking some more cable down with you and possibly run some loose out a window for example,as a temporary measure to try and get the system up and running,this may cause less frustration,if you have the receiver and signal tester with you at present you could test them on a known good dish,this may rule out a few variables,best of luck.