Docklands finally gets the go ahead

bear1

I have to say I'm happy about this:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/green-light-for-massive-docklands-development-will-ease-office-crisis-30297452.html

It's the first thing tourists see when they get off the ferry at Dublin Port and at the moment it's run down and in serious need of investment.
I like the fact that two new 88m buildings will be located there, it should make the area "pop" skyline wise.
I think Liberty Hall is 60m so I imagine they will be as tall as the Spire.
Well pleased about it

miss no stars

I don't see how that does anything about the docklands area. It's not exactly like they're coming along and making areas like East Wall Road look nice. If anything it'll be worse because it'll be in such sharp contrast to clean new buildings.

I hope they are planning to include some more green spaces down in the docklands and not just buildings.

gramar

More jobs that will mean more congestion brought to the city centre meaning more people move to the capital increasing the demand for already over-stretched services and putting even more upward pressure on house prices and the cost of living.

What about a little regional development?

dodzy

bear1 wrote: »

I have to say I'm happy about this:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/green-light-for-massive-docklands-development-will-ease-office-crisis-30297452.html
I think Liberty Hall is 60m so I imagine they will be as tall as the Spire.

You're spot on with Lib hall, but the spire sits significantly higher, touching 400ft

bear1

gramar wrote: »

More jobs that will mean more congestion brought to the city centre meaning more people move to the capital increasing the demand for already over-stretched services and putting even more upward pressure on house prices and the cost of living.

What about a little regional development?

See your point, but in Galway for example many housing estates which were abandoned when the crisis hit are now being repaired and flogged off as the need for housing here is growing again so I guess that's a bit of regional development.
UL has been given a tonne of money recently to develop a new lab I believe.
Other stories about developing motorways to ports and the Tuam to Gort including the Galway bypass are also underway.
The developments are there but they won't make as big of news as developments in the capital as that's where the majority of the money is made.

dodzy wrote: »

You're spot on with Lib hall, but the spire sits significantly higher, touching 400ft

Didn't know the Spire was 400ft high, I for one think a few more "high-rises" would look nice around that area.

humanji

We're still going to get that giant statue of Bono straddling the Liffey, right?

Turtyturd

2 more bridges...we should just concentrate the Liffey.

bear1

humanji wrote: »

We're still going to get that giant statue of Bono straddling the Liffey, right?

Ah here you, it's going to be Sinead O'Conner, were you not at the meeting?

Kermit.de.frog

bear1 wrote: »

I like the fact that two new 88m buildings will be located there

??? That's tiny. Why is everyone so small minded in this country. You could and should have buildings twice that height down there.

bear1

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

??? That's tiny. Why is everyone so small minded in this country. You could and should have buildings twice that height down there.

Of course, but that's the most we are ever going to get.
Residents don't want them and offices need them hence why a max of 22 is allowed.
Dublin is too small for Manhattan style buildings but 25-30 storey buildings if made correctly could make the place look professional

mathie

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

??? That's tiny. Why is everyone so small minded in this country. You could and should have buildings twice that height down there.

God is that you?

Celly Smunt

I love this smell, it smells like 1993, house prices are going up, exports are rising highly, contruction is starting to blossom, breakfast rolls everywhere eaten by a sea of hi vis jackets.

Mmmmm smells boomy.

NTMK

humanji wrote: »

We're still going to get that giant statue of Bono straddling the Liffey, right?

ye already have one giant prick beside the liffey why do ye need another one?

NZ_2014

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

??? That's tiny. Why is everyone so small minded in this country. You could and should have buildings twice that height down there.

There was a 120m building beside the o2 given permission, they even starting building it and then the banks pulled the plugs. Think there were a few others similar size given permission to back in the day

MagicIRL

Place is a kip. Anything's better than what it currently is but I hope they keep it in theme with the City itself. Some of these big modern glass buildings look atrocious. I'm all for modernization but a bit of forsight will go a long way.

CatLou

It's badly needed indeed. I live in the area and it makes perfect sense, especially if they also invest in the surrounding areas, like East Wall.

I hope they put some real thought into it, Dublin could benefit immensely with the development of this area.
If it's just concrete on concrete and bad quality apartments, then there were no lessons learned from earlier years.
There are a lot of empty offices and shops already along the IFSC and at The Point - how big do they need to be? there are whole floors completely empty on many of the building in Spencer Dock, right after Mayor Sq -, so they should focus on creating pleasant green/open spaces, cultural hubs and residential areas that would attract people to live and do business in the area.

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I'm not overly confident about it.

hfallada

It's a disappointment there isn't a large sky scraper planned. London is probably most famous for its shard or gherkin than anything else now. NYC is famous for the empire state building. But Dublin has no landmark high rise building.

People need to forget about "regional development". The only regional development you will see in Germany is maybe a city of 100,000 that they plan merging into a bigger city in a few years. Most German cities sprawl into each other. But good public transport resolves most issues

bear1

hfallada wrote: »

It's a disappointment there isn't a large sky scraper planned. London is probably most famous for its shard or gherkin than anything else now. NYC is famous for the empire state building. But Dublin has no landmark high rise building.

People need to forget about "regional development". The only regional development you will see in Germany is maybe a city of 100,000 that they plan merging into a bigger city in a few years. Most German cities sprawl into each other. But good public transport resolves most issues

We would have had one if they had gone ahead with the U2 tower.
Can't remember why it was rejected.
There was also the tower that would have replaced Liberty Hall.
People just didn't want them but now we have a clear sign that they were indeed needed as space is at a limit now and it will be a good few years for the Docks are up and running.
Does anyone know btw when does construction actually begin?

davepatr07

I think it's only a matter of time a part of the city (away from the heritage buildings) will have to start going up. The way things are going it will end up like Auckland, a city of similar population but spread out. Even that city has a cluster of buildings over 20 stories.

Auckland, Perth Adelaide all have similar populations to Dublin, have high rise CDB's. Why not Dublin?

Holsten

8 stories high?

Joke as usual.

Teyla Emmagan

This has the opportunity to be incredible if it's done properly. There's great space down there, brilliant views, good transport. It does need green space though, and to be as family friendly as possible. Big 3 bed apartments and lots of playgrounds/walking tracks etc. And plenty of civic amenities.

Makes no sense to be building out the burbs when we have all that space in the city centre.

conorhal

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

This has the opportunity to be incredible if it's done properly. There's great space down there, brilliant views, good transport. It does need green space though, and to be as family friendly as possible. Big 3 bed apartments and lots of playgrounds/walking tracks etc. And plenty of civic amenities.

Makes no sense to be building out the burbs when we have all that space in the city centre.

I guess you missed the part about 'fast track planning' in response to the current housing and office space 'crisis' that is a crucial element of this new development.
We've learned nothing about making apartment living actually livable. Which is why I'd never want to live in one of the inevitable shoe box hell holes that are likely to get built. We seem as a people congenitally incapable of proper planning and getting the basics right. Instead we'll rush through whatever the builders feel that they can get away with once more because all policy by our planners and government is reactionary and short term thinking based.
Of course another reason so stay a million miles away from this development is the fact that you want to be mad to live next to East Wall, one of the scummiest parts of the city. Even when my mum was a child growing up in the Pearse St tenements, she’d say that you still stayed away from East wall, they eat their children there ;-)

FreshTendrils

If they need space that badly then why build say three 8 storey buildings when they could build one 24 storey building and keep some space for the inevitable further demand?

Celly Smunt

FreshTendrils wrote: »

If they need space that badly then why build say three 8 storey buildings when they could build one 24 storey building and keep some space for the inevitable further demand?

Plan? In Dublin? You must be going mad my friend.

Cuddlesworth

"The current shortage of large-scale office space in the heart of Dublin is already beginning to drive up rents and increase costs for businesses trying to locate in Dublin," PII director Dr Peter Stafford said

Ehh, no. I'm aware of a number of companies both large and small that have negotiated significant rent reductions at the end of leases. There are huge numbers of office blocks ringing the city that have been empty for years and lease at a fraction of those within the center. Yeah the odds of them finding a similar size office in the city center is unlikely, but its hard to argue with 5 times the space for the same cost base by moving 15-20 kilometers.

CatLou

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Ehh, no. I'm aware of a number of companies both large and small that have negotiated significant rent reductions at the end of leases. There are huge numbers of office blocks ringing the city that have been empty for years and lease at a fraction of those within the center. Yeah the odds of them finding a similar size office in the city center is unlikely, but its hard to argue with 5 times the space for the same cost base by moving 15-20 kilometers.

I know two companies that actually negotiated lower rents in the city centre.
On the other hand, I don't know that many people that went without rent increases this year

conorhal wrote: »

Of course another reason so stay a million miles away from this development is the fact that you want to be mad to live next to East Wall, one of the scummiest parts of the city. Even when my mum was a child growing up in the Pearse St tenements, she’d say that you still stayed away from East wall, they eat their children there ;-)

Well, you should take a walk around East Wall nowadays, it's actually not as bad as many other inner city areas. And I can assure you there are no troubles around either, a lot of people walk hassle free to the Point Village cinema at night, for instance.
Ostracising a community and area based on prejudice is never a clever solution. Even more so if they are on such a good location to enjoy the city life.

Peregrine

bear1 wrote: »

I like the fact that two new 88m buildings will be located there, it should make the area "pop" skyline wise.

Those restrictions are ridiculous. The docklands is far from the sensitive historic part of Dublin yet they still insist on restricting how many storeys can be built on those sites before a plan is even put forward. And the rest of the area will be 8 storey shoeboxes.

With those restictions and a 50:50 commercial to residential split(Which I agree with), we'd build a mere 2,600 homes.

We only have 22 hectares of land for development so close to the city centre. Let's get it right.

bear1 wrote: »

I think Liberty Hall is 60m so I imagine they will be as tall as the Spire.

Nowhere near as tall as the Spire, unfortunately. Not even as tall as some churches here in Ireland.

biko

I really like that they removed the oil tanks so the Volvo festival could use the space.

lertsnim

bear1 wrote: »

Dublin is too small for Manhattan style buildings but 25-30 storey buildings if made correctly could make the place look professional

Make it look professional? What are you on about?

NZ_2014

There is a serious problem with urban sprawl high rise and decent public transport helps to offset this but then people won't have their private gardens this is the problem with it.

Paramite Pie

hfallada wrote: »

It's a disappointment there isn't a large sky scraper planned. London is probably most famous for its shard or gherkin than anything else now. NYC is famous for the empire state building. But Dublin has no landmark high rise building.

Dublin has nowhere near the population of New York or London. Paris isn't famous for it's sky scrapers (and only has 8 buildings over 100m) and that has a population of 12 million. Wouldn't a bunch of skyscrapers just lay dormant? We can't even fill the buildings we have, let alone magically solve all our problems by building bigger. I mean what are we, North Korea? Let's build big towering buildings just for show so all our tourists will think we actually have a population?:rolleyes:

hfallada wrote: »

People need to forget about "regional development".

Yeah, because under-developed periphery areas are good for the economy. With only one "real" city on the republic, we can't afford ignore regional areas.

hfallada wrote: »

The only regional development you will see in Germany is maybe a city of 100,000 that they plan merging into a bigger city in a few years. Most German cities sprawl into each other. But good public transport resolves most issues

So your plan is to grow Dublin out all the way to Galway and Cork? Not going to happen. Or do you expect us culchies to depopulate our homes and move to Dublin to appease your suburban insecurities?? When Dublin grows up, it wants to be like New York!:pac:

We have a choice, either grow up or grow out. We can't do both. Rather than sprawl Dublin outwards into once scenic areas like Clondalkin, our city planners should've built upwards some time ago and not wait until we run out of land. Regardless, I'd like to see a park built into the Docklands region to break up the monotony that comes with concrete jungles. It will also attract people to come and live there, which in turn brings in business.

Peregrine

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Paris isn't famous for it's sky scrapers (and only has 8 buildings over 100m)

What did you do to the other 30 buildings?

NZ_2014

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

What did you do to the other 30 buildings?

The other 58 according to wiki in the Paris Region:pac:

Peregrine

NZ_2014 wrote: »

The other 58 according to wiki in the Paris Region:pac:

I may have been thinking of the 40 or so just in La Défense.

Yeah, you're right, there's more!

bear1

lertsnim wrote: »

Make it look professional? What are you on about?

What are you on about?
Make an area look professional, in the sense that it was built smartly and therefore isn't an eye sore. Clear enough for you?