85yr old getting a license

paddyc310

Any problem to get licence for shotgun at 85 yrs

cookimonster

paddyc310 wrote: »

Any problem to get licence for shotgun at 85 yrs

This is a good one and may warrant a new thread.
I have wondered what 'if' your GP in thier opinion didn't think you where fit to hold a fire arms licence due to reasons other than mental health.
Pre diagnosed medical conditions effecting physical health, blackouts, epilepsy, use of medication causing mood swings etc these are just a few I can think of.
You might think that this is a little far fetched but remember there are guys having they firearms seized because of marital / relationship issues in the best interest of safety. A inquiring Garda and over cautious if not ageist GP could put the spanner in the works.

Please note that I am not saying that any medical conditions above should result in the non issue of a FAC to an individual.

tac foley

cookimonster wrote: »

I have wondered what 'if' your GP in thier opinion didn't think you where fit to hold a fire arms licence due to reasons other than mental health. Pre diagnosed medical conditions effecting physical health, blackouts, epilepsy, use of medication causing mood swings etc these are just a few I can think of.

I guess that you are still a long way down the road from the UK with regard to mental or other health issues and the issuing of a certificate [not a license] to hold a firearm.

Here in UK, where it is the person who has the license and not the firearm, the applicant is required to declare that he/she has no underlying health issues, long or short term, that might give rise to concern about them having access to potentially-lethal firearms. Specifically, those issues include depression, epilepsy and certain types of diabetic conditions that could lead the sufferer to pass out.

IMO any one of these conditions would mean that I'd nix an applicant who had them. Would YOU want to share a range with somebody who might either keel over or have a grand mal whilst in charge of a loaded gun?

After all, diabetics with a history of passing out on a hypo have their driving licenses taken off them - what's the difference?

Add to this that one of the compulsory questions on the application form asks you to give the address of your GP, who MIGHT be approached to give confidential details of your health issues if required.

tac

These measures were put in place after the Hungerford Massacre in 1988, and further reinforced in 1995 after Dunblane.

BillyBoy13

tac foley wrote: »

I guess that you are still a long way down the road from the UK with regard to mental or other health issues and the issuing of a certificate [not a license] to hold a firearm.

Here in UK, where it is the person who has the license and not the firearm, the applicant is required to declare that he/she has no underlying health issues, long or short term, that might give rise to concern about them having access to potentially-lethal firearms. Specifically, those issues include depression, epilepsy and certain types of diabetic conditions that could lead the sufferer to pass out.

IMO any one of these conditions would mean that I'd nix an applicant who had them. Would YOU want to share a range with somebody who might either keel over or have a grand mal whilst in charge of a loaded gun?

After all, diabetics with a history of passing out on a hypo have their driving licenses taken off them - what's the difference?

Add to this that one of the compulsory questions on the application form asks you to give the address of your GP, who MIGHT be approached to give confidential details of your health issues if required.

tac

These measures were put in place after the Hungerford Massacre in 1988, and further reinforced in 1995 after Dunblane.

Its the exact same here in Ireland. Have a look (section 2.2)

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/fca1%20firearm%20certificate%20application%5B2%5D.pdf

270WIN

tac foley wrote: »

IMO any one of these conditions would mean that I'd nix an applicant who had them. Would YOU want to share a range with somebody who might either keel over or have a grand mal whilst in charge of a loaded gun?

Thats very harsh..anyone could "keel over" at any time...we are all at risk of heart attacks , brain hemmorages etc at any moment ..even you!!!

IMO ,People with any of these conditions that you mention are quiet entitled to follow their chosen sport ...what do you want them to do..crawl away and die

The OP never mentioned any health problems so imo an 85 year old is very entitled to hold a gun licence if he wants to

BillyBoy13

270WIN wrote: »

Thats very harsh..anyone could "keel over" at any time...we are all at risk of heart attacks , brain hemmorages etc at any moment ..even you!!!

IMO ,People with any of these conditions that you mention are quiet entitled to follow their chosen sport ...what do you want them to do..crawl away and die

The OP never mentioned any health problems so imo an 85 year old is very entitled to hold a gun licence if he wants to

I think Id have to agree with tac on this issue. If someone cant be given a driving licence due to a possible seizure from a known health condition then IMO they probably shouldnt be given a FAC either.

freddieot

Quite a few old boys out there with shotguns and they would be 80+, especially farmers. Hope nobody is suggesting that they should all have them confiscated. (By extension if there is a problem with someone of 85 getting a shotgun then surely there should be no renewals either ?)

However, I've seen people of all ages down the years that have frightened the sh**e out of me with the way they handle firearms. I'll take my chances with the 85 year old over the 18 year old any day - at least he's probably managed to make it to 85 without dying or ending up in gaol for manslaughter.

Sparks

Strictly speaking, there are no legal grounds to bar someone from getting a cert based purely on their age. Medical conditions might preclude someone from getting a cert; but those conditions could apply to someone of any age.

270WIN

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

I think Id have to agree with tac on this issue. If someone cant be given a driving licence due to a possible seizure from a known health condition then IMO they probably shouldnt be given a FAC either.

in that case would you bar an over weight person from holding a gun licence because they have a far greater risk of getting a heart attack?....the chances of a diabetic getting a hypo are slim and slimmer again when holding a gun and even slimmer again to have that hypo cause an accident..
The chances of a "healthy" person falling over a stone and causing an accident with a loaded gun are far greater than causing an accident with the conditions you outlined,how many times have diabetics or people with epilipsey caused shooting accidents versus "normal" people causing shooting accidents??
In your mind only perfectly healthy people are considered own a gun.
(i would have no argument with mental health issues being considered as a reason to disbar a licence application)

tac foley

270WIN wrote: »

tac foley wrote: »

IMO any one of these conditions would mean that I'd nix an applicant who had them. Would YOU want to share a range with somebody who might either keel over or have a grand mal whilst in charge of a loaded gun?

Thats very harsh..anyone could "keel over" at any time...we are all at risk of heart attacks , brain hemmorages etc at any moment ..even you!!!

IMO ,People with any of these conditions that you mention are quiet entitled to follow their chosen sport ...what do you want them to do..crawl away and die

The OP never mentioned any health problems so imo an 85 year old is very entitled to hold a gun licence if he wants to

You obviously did not read what I wrote. Epileptics or those likely to suffer a hypo are not good and safe candidates for gun ownership. The risk that we all have of a sudden death or collapse from a brain haemorrhage is an allowable risk in law, but letting a known epileptic, or somebody who, for instance, has narcolepsy, have a firearm is not deemed to be a good decision.

That is precisely why epileptics [in UK - I have no idea how many epileptics with guns there might be in the RoI] do NOT get gun licenses, unless they lie on the application form - a very dangerous thing to do.

Just to put you in the picture, I teach disabled people to shoot - my own daughter is one of them, but I would be remiss in my duty of care to anybody else if I put a gun in the hands of an epileptic.

tac

Grizzly 45

FWIW
My German grandfather died when he was 99 in 2001 .He quit hunting when he was 96!! When he turned 85 in Germany ,he had to appear before a medical panel on a bi annual basis to asses his suitability to own or use a firearm.They quit asking him any questions after he turned 88 as they saw he was compo mentis and of a rather decript , but still funtioning body,so it became a 5 min job with him then.:pac:
Bottom line is. Its not how old you are or should be ,but how fit and able you are to still continue shooting...I mean,how bad can it be if we ask elderly drivers to submit to a medical once a year for driving a car??there are more old folk driving than shooting and yet how many old codgers past 80 cause car accidents?:D

kowloon

270WIN wrote: »

in that case would you bar an over weight person from holding a gun licence because they have a far greater risk of getting a heart attack?....the chances of a diabetic getting a hypo are slim and slimmer again when holding a gun and even slimmer again to have that hypo cause an accident..

Most diabetics can feel a hypo coming on, gives you time to do something about it. You would have to be hypo unaware to just keel over.

tac foley

There is no doubt that there are some very able older folks around - there are quite a few in the club to which I belong who are on the other side of 75, at least. One of them [age 74] has had to give up on shooting this year as he has to spend more time caring for both his parents.

However, all these folks are otherwise hale and hearty, and could probably walk the legs off most of us. My concern, and that of the authorities, is that firearms owners are NOT given to falling over in a heap without due notice, especially whilst in charge of a gun or a car, and that they are not living in a haze of compulsory medicinal drug-taking in order to present a semblance of health that they do not have.

We have had to make certain accommodations in this club for one member who weighs in the region of 370 pounds, and who is therefore more likely to keel over whilst in charge of a gun than a less volumatic person. None of us in the club, in fact, no four of us in the club, could ever move him if this happened, and emergency provision for the use of one of the counties few 'Jumbulances' has had to be made as a 'just in case'.

A friend of mine in the Lake District who 'enjoys' the sport of Fell-running is regularly beaten by his 65-yo father-in-law, who last year set a time that was better than 90% of ALL the other runners that day, some of whom were in their 20's.

It's not the age that matters, it's the state of the bodywork.

tac

meathstevie

Why should an 85 year old not be able to hold a shotgun licence as long as they fit the criteria to have one ?

He/she mightn't be able to hack a hard long day rough shooting as well as they were 50 anymore but if I'm lucky enough to get to the age of 85 in good health I'm pretty damned sure I'll still enjoy an afternoon at the pigeons or a few hours on a high seat.

By the by, the old man is close to 70 but I dare challenge anyone on here to outshoot him on ground game with a shotgun.

BillyBoy13

270WIN wrote: »

in that case would you bar an over weight person from holding a gun licence because they have a far greater risk of getting a heart attack?....the chances of a diabetic getting a hypo are slim and slimmer again when holding a gun and even slimmer again to have that hypo cause an accident..

Well as already mentioned by someone, diabetics aren't really a liability as they know themselves when they don't feel right. Its when someone has a known condition that causes them to regularly, without warning, loss of physical/mental control that's where I have an issue.

270WIN wrote: »

how many times have diabetics or people with epilipsey caused shooting accidents versus "normal" people causing shooting accidents??

Well considering people with known conditions are possibly been refused licenses Im sure that skews those statistics. And apart from that, I think most people that would be liable to cause such an accident in the first place would know themselves what they're like and not put themselves in the position in the first place even if offered the chance.

270WIN wrote: »

i would have no argument with mental health issues being considered as a reason to disbar a licence application

I fully agree with you here.

EWQuinn

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

FWIW
My German grandfather died when he was 99 in 2001 .He quit hunting when he was 96!! When he turned 85 in Germany ,he had to appear before a medical panel on a bi annual basis to asses his suitability to own or use a firearm.They quit asking him any questions after he turned 88 as they saw he was compo mentis and of a rather decript , but still funtioning body,so it became a 5 min job with him then.:pac:
Bottom line is. Its not how old you are or should be ,but how fit and able you are to still continue shooting...I mean,how bad can it be if we ask elderly drivers to submit to a medical once a year for driving a car??there are more old folk driving than shooting and yet how many old codgers past 80 cause car accidents?:D

Its about health and condition. If you can handle it reasonably there should be no prohibition. A person also has to know and own up to their limitations.

I have fond memories of driving through Germany in the Army and seeing the older folks working out in the fields with the young ones. Once an elderly lady, had to be in her 80s or 90s, trying to ride a bike up hill, had to get off. A guy in a huge Mercedes stopped to help, backing up traffic a long way, nobody honked or complained, least of all us in the convoy.