new s and s arrangements

john1963

Have people seen this. You nominate 10 periods.....rank them 1 to 10....and principal can use you anytime...do our unions have a clue

vamos!

john1963 wrote: »

Have people seen this. You nominate 10 periods.....rank them 1 to 10....and principal can use you anytime...do our unions have a clue

That's all of our free periods potentially gone and at least one break and lunch. Wow! How many people will continue to willingly sacrifice a further lunch time to extra curricular. If I nominate Friday evening as my number 10 and Joe Bloggs chooses it as number 7 who is called upon?

EDIT: Am I misreading the circular or do most teachers have to nominate 5 and not 10 class periods?

TheDriver

as much as I like having something in a circular about planning the S&S, it screams of impracticality. The idea of having it ready mid Aug is a joke for starters, likewise will all teachers be able to email back mid august their periods?

evolving_doors

john1963 wrote: »

Have people seen this. You nominate 10 periods.....rank them 1 to 10....and principal can use you anytime...do our unions have a clue

Where's this from?

Delphi91

john1963 wrote: »

Have people seen this. You nominate 10 periods.....rank them 1 to 10....and principal can use you anytime...do our unions have a clue

There's no mention of 10 periods in the circular. You are asked to fill in all the unallocated periods in your timetable in numbered order of preference. You are then assigned to a pre-defined roster (determined by an analysis of the current years absence!).

As for being used at anytime, you are still only available for a maximum of five periods, to be called for a maximum of three.

As TheDriver said, it is a bit impractical - timetables are often being tweaked up to a few days before staff return based on extra allocations, changing requirements, staff movement, etc.

gaeilgebeo

Thank The Lord above I saw this coming and opted out.

teacherhead

Once you get beyond the ridiculously complicated process it is actually a fair system.

Everyone marks every period they have free with a ranked number and where needed they'll be allocated by preference.

From a,management point of view it means that you wont be left with no teachers to cover particular periods.

happywithlife

What about part timers? If I've only say 6 hrs do I rank EVERY free period?

I assume we are then told which 5( or whatever number prorata) periods we've been assigned?

When do these have to be finalised? I've been in schools where timetables are still being tweaked a week or two into school for resource hrs etc.

Delphi91

happywithlife wrote: »

What about part timers? If I've only say 6 hrs do I rank EVERY free period?

The amount of classes you can be rostered for is as follows:
a. Each teacher working up to and including 12 hours class contact per week = 3 class periods
b. Each teacher working more than 12 and up to and including 17 hours class contact per week = 4 class periods
c. Each teacher working more than 17 hours class contact per week = 5 class periods

When do these have to be finalised? I've been in schools where timetables are still being tweaked a week or two into school for resource hrs etc.

The DES wants timetables issued to teachers in advance of the return to school in August. Teachers then reply to the Principal (or whoever is organising the rota) within three days of the sending of individual timetables identifying the preference of all available slots on their timetable - teachers who don't reply will have their slots picked for them by the Principal!. This is then used to create the roster which the DES wants in place when the school re-opens.

The DES wants the system done through email - there are people on my staff who can barely use a computer, nevermind email! Can it be posted to them? What if they're on holidays when their timetable is sent out?

I agree - it would be extremely rare to have timetables fully completed prior to the return to school - there are resource hours to consider which often haven't arrived by then.

Teacherhead is correct - at least there should now be a teacher (or more than one) teacher available to cover every slot. The identification of just 5 slots certainly led to gaps or inadequate cover at times.

Clare20

I think it is a great Circular.

I know of many schools where the P and DP were absent from the Rota.

Principals and DPs are still trotting out the old canard of the difficulties of sending out a timetable.

Please, you have all the technology and software available to do this properly.

Now it's time to step up to the plate and lead.

I am teaching a long time and know all the inefficient management tricks. If you think your staff have minimal email skills - why did you not think to provide them with the relevant skills?

It's time to lead. That's what you get paid to do.

Delphi91

Clare20 wrote: »

I think it is a great Circular.

It certainly is a help

Principals and DPs are still trotting out the old canard of the difficulties of sending out a timetable.

You've obviously never created one

It's not a question of inability to create a timetable due to lack of technology and software. It's the fact that a lot of the time you don't have a complete idea of what your allocation/resources for the coming year are. If you don't know that, you can't timetable properly.

Its also not just a case of setting up the data and letting the computer create the timetable (I wish it was!). You have to manually go through the timetable class by class to make sure that it makes sense and that it's practical Because the whole thing is interconnected on so many levels, a tiny change in one area can knock off something else which you then have to go about changing, etc, etc.

Clare20

No. I haven't. But I know from a few who have done this how easy it is to manipulate.

The resources/time for the coming year should have been decided by May.

Some schools are perfectly able to supply timetables. My school is a large school and my timetable was promptly in the post in August.

Shame on the schools that don't do this.

Delphi91

Clare20 wrote: »

...But I know from a few who have done this how easy it is to manipulate.

When you say manipulate, what do you mean?

The resources/time for the coming year should have been decided by May.

I agree, but it's easier said than done. I know what classes groups I need, I know what subjects I have to timetable for, what teachers I have to timetable, what options I have to provide, etc. However, I can't do any of that until I get the allocation to work with. Sure, I'll have a fairly good idea when I start the timetable but I won't have the complete picture. Special needs allocations may not come until August - that depends on the SENO assigned to the school and how they operate.

Some schools are perfectly able to supply timetables. My school is a large school and my timetable was promptly in the post in August.

True, and there are schools whose timetable doesn't change from year to year. In that case it's very easy to have one ready.

happywithlife

Thanks Delphi - iknow about the number of slots per rata but wondering if say I have just 6 hrs -am i now ranking a whole host of free periods? Guess I am.
Eg if I have 13 free periods am I ranking 1-13?

Clare20 I'd actually think it's slightly easier to sort the timetable in a bigger school esp for last min tweaks as you have a larger pool of teachers timetables to use to sort out resource etc - in a smaller school I am guessing that could actually be harder

Out of interest when was the circular released? We had a union meeting just a few days ago and this wasn't mentioned at it,nor have I heard it mentioned in school - although the staff room has been hit n miss this week with teachers sorting graduation nights for the various yr groups etc and trying to get tests photocopied at lunchtime. Not to mention teachers being out with class tours and so on

Clare20

Manipulate means what it means.

Special needs doesn't have any bearing on the teacher timetable.

I agree a tweaking might be necessary but in the main the timetable should be fairly stable.

Clare20

I have also worked in small schools where my timetable was changed at least 3 times over a year due to poor management. Sorry to say this, but there is a lot of poor management in schools.

The circular was issued on the 15 May.

if some schools have timetables that don't change from one year to another that should surely make it easier?

But, in reality when does this happen? Schools are dynamic places and it would be unusual for them to be static.

john1963

Delphi91 wrote: »

There's no mention of 10 periods in the circular. You are asked to fill in all the unallocated periods in your timetable in numbered order of preference. You are then assigned to a pre-defined roster (determined by an analysis of the current years absence!).

As for being used at anytime, you are still only available for a maximum of five periods, to be called for a maximum of three.

As TheDriver said, it is a bit impractical - timetables are often being tweaked up to a few days before staff return based on extra allocations, changing requirements, staff movement, etc.

You nominate all your free periods and can be asked to do any of them......this is horrendous

Clare20

john1963 wrote: »

You nominate all your free periods and can be asked to do any of them......this is horrendous

It's a lot better than having no choice at all - the reality in many schools where the timetabled hours were filled in by the P and DP who decided that for the purposes of S and S that they were not "teachers".

Where in reality they are teachers who receive an allowance to carry out their management duties

Sigh!

vamos!

Forgive my ignorance here but why would P and DP be officially on S&S rota. Surely due to the fluid nature of the job, they wouldn't be able to commit to 5 periods of supervision. What would happen if there was an important call, a serious discipline issue or the likes? Our P and DP only supervised class groups on days where lots of staff are away or all religion teachers are on retreat. Other than that they are in or near their offices (working from what i can see) and both staff and students know where to find them quickly if they are needed. I would hate to know that I had a class of boldies when management were supervising and I would have nowhere to send violent or seriously disruptive students if they needed to be removed from the room.

km79

vamos! wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance here but why would P and DP be officially on S&S rota. Surely due to the fluid nature of the job, they wouldn't be able to commit to 5 periods of supervision. What would happen if there was an important call, a serious discipline issue or the likes? Our P and DP only supervised class groups on days where lots of staff are away or all religion teachers are on retreat. Other than that they are in or near their offices (working from what i can see) and both staff and students know where to find them quickly if they are needed. I would hate to know that I had a class of boldies when management were supervising and I would have nowhere to send violent or seriously disruptive students if they needed to be removed from the room.

Yeah I agree. Which is why I don't think principals or deputies should have signed up for the PAID s and s in the first place!!! But those of them that did get paid this allowance on top of their management allowance are now stuck with the mandatory hours like the rest of us. We are all in it together .........when it suits

Clare20

vamos

You are not at all ignorant.

The Haddington Road Agreement stated that all teachers would be part of S & S.

P and DP are teachers who receive an allowance for their managerial positions held.

So they cannot be exempt from S & S.

Often, P and DP are absent as they attend training and other managerial training events and their roles are fulfilled by APs in the schools.

It would be unusual for a school not to have a class tutor, year head system in place to deal with issues that arise. And it would be unusual for the P and DP or AP not to be available if proper planning were put in place by the management team to facilitate the scenario you propose.

Unless, it were seriously mismanaged.

Regards