Best subject combinations

Teachack

Hello all,

I hope to enter the teaching profession in the coming academic year. I'm a long time lurker on boards and more specifically this forum, and I have been reading relevant threads. I know that what ye're going to say is stay away from teaching, but my heart is set on it, and I believe I can make a good teacher. I notice that ye regularly say X and Y are good/bad subject combinations. In your opinion which combinations would ye "recommend", jobs wise? I believe that English and History are ones to stay away from. To put things into perspective I hope to do Woodwork and T.G teaching, whether that is wise or not, I don't know. Look, I am well aware that jobs in this sector are almost non existent, but I don't want to base the rest of my life on what today's society is like. Hopefully in 4 years, things will have changed. Anyway, enough waffle form me.

Thanks

sitstill

Teachack wrote: »

Hello all,

I hope to enter the teaching profession in the coming academic year. I'm a long time lurker on boards and more specifically this forum, and I have been reading relevant threads. I know that what ye're going to say is stay away from teaching, but my heart is set on it, and I believe I can make a good teacher. I notice that ye regularly say X and Y are good/bad subject combinations. In your opinion which combinations would ye "recommend", jobs wise? I believe that English and History are ones to stay away from. To put things into perspective I hope to do Woodwork and T.G teaching, whether that is wise or not, I don't know. Look, I am well aware that jobs in this sector are almost non existent, but I don't want to base the rest of my life on what today's society is like. Hopefully in 4 years, things will have changed. Anyway, enough waffle form me.

Thanks

Are you hoping to do the PME in September? If so, what are your degree subjects? (Although it think you've missed the deadline) or are you hoping to start a B.Ed programme and if so which one have you applied for?

Teachack

I hope to start as an undergraduate, doing a B.Ed, straight 4 years, then qualified, no Hdip or whatever the new name is. Applied for Wood and Tech Graphics teaching.

Naoko

Hi Teachack,

It's always best to follow your own interests. If somebody in your position told me they enjoyed English and history more than any other subjects I would tell them to go ahead and become qualified to teach English and history. A job will become available eventually. When teachers are not passionate about the subjects they teach, it shows. The students pick up on it and the job is more of a slog for the teacher. I know I'm a much better teacher when I'm teaching my favourite subject.

Having said that, if there are several subjects that you enjoy equally then it makes sense to consider job prospects when making your decision. I don't know about woodwork and TG but they're not too obscure anyway (although there obviously wouldn't be as many maternity leave contracts to keep you ticking over before getting your own hours).

French and Irish teachers are in demand at the minute but the situation could be completely different by the time you are qualified.

Teachack

Thanks, I've kind of settled on the Wood and T.G, I've been exploring alternatives this past year, but I keep getting drawn back to the Wood! I'm so egar to get at it!

seavill

The best subject combination is the combination of the subjects you love. If you don't love them then it's not the best combination. Jobs are irrelevant.

TheDriver

seavill wrote: »

Jobs are irrelevant.

more or less but make sure your subjects are employable e.g. don't be a cspe and sphe teacher or an Italian and Spanish teacher as there ain't many jobs out there to start with. However do the ones you like

seavill

TheDriver wrote: »

more or less but make sure your subjects are employable e.g. don't be a cspe and sphe teacher or an Italian and Spanish teacher as there ain't many jobs out there to start with. However do the ones you like

Yes agreed should have clarified

Teachack

Cheers guys, I appreciate your advice! Lets keep it in the direction of Wood and T.G, I'm assuming that these are fairly employable subjects, generally speaking, I know that there isn't much out there.. but looking into the future, even the past, weren't these 2 fairly good for securing a job?

seavill

Yes they are enjoyable subjects but like anything that depends on the students in front of you also but if you have a love for those it is great to teach.
No not necessarily in relation to securing jobs, yes maybe 15 years ago but in the last 10 not the case.
If you look at most schools, some schools won't teach it so you are down straight away, most would have 1 or 2 teachers (compare that to 6 or 7 English, maths etc.) larger schools will obviously have more but they are few and far between.
Again have a look at your own experience, in my school that I attended there was 2 woodwork teachers, both spent over 30 years each there, in the school I am in now, I am only the 2nd Woodwork teacher in 35 years. Most when they do find a job are there long term. You wouldn't (in general) have many maternity leaves ompared to other subjects.
A lot is about luck, but in general there is not a turn over of teachers in these subjects in most schools and a lot are there long term. A lot of the turn over of younger teaches comes from dropping numbers in the subjects where the experienced teachers stays and the younger teacher leaves not to be replaced.

teacherhead

We had 50 applications for a 14hour woodwork job in Sept last.

Shortlisting was tough, heeded an Hons degree and two years experience to get to the interview. And that left15 or so to interview.

Its not easy out there. That said they're great subjects to teach and if you are into them you'll find it very rewarding.

Teachack

Alright, thanks again.

I suppose the only dampener is the jobs situation, but you can't let that get to you. Hopefully things will change in the not too distant future.

shenanagans

Be aware that the old hdip or pde is now a two years masters and consider the expense of this. After doing a 4 year undergraduate degree it's a lot to start another 2 year course. Research the cost and make sure it financially viable for you before you start.

rainbowtrout

shenanagans wrote: »

Be aware that the old hdip or pde is now a two years masters and consider the expense of this. After doing a 4 year undergraduate degree it's a lot to start another 2 year course. Research the cost and make sure it financially viable for you before you start.

If the OP does Woodwork Teaching he will more than likely end up doing the concurrent Woodwork and Teacher Training degree in UL/Letterfrack. If those degrees are going to run the same way as the Maynooth Science Education degree, it will be a four year degree and then automatic entry into year 2 of the PME, so 5 years.

Teachack

rainbowtrout wrote: »

If the OP does Woodwork Teaching he will more than likely end up doing the concurrent Woodwork and Teacher Training degree in UL/Letterfrack. If those degrees are going to run the same way as the Maynooth Science Education degree, it will be a four year degree and then automatic entry into year 2 of the PME, so 5 years.

Wait a sec, I thought that with the UL/Letterfrack course you are fully qualified after the 4 years, and that there is no PME afterwards?

phish

Nope concurrent degrees have to be extended by a year to gain the extra credits needed.

spurious

The plan is obviously not just to kill teaching, but batter it round the yard with a shovel afterwards and then stamp on it.

Teachack

Oh wasn't told that. Says nothing about it in the course details. So like it was said, you go straight into year 2. I take it that you are guaranteed a place, ie, you won't have to fight for your place, like someone coming out of an arts degree? And where do these PME's take place? Sorry for all the stupid questions, I'd just like to know the situation before I set out

rainbowtrout

Teachack wrote: »

Wait a sec, I thought that with the UL/Letterfrack course you are fully qualified after the 4 years, and that there is no PME afterwards?

Up till now yes, but I know in Maynooth the Science Education degree is being extended to 5 years for the PME. Same 4 year degree as teacher training degrees in UL, but the 5th year will be year 2 of the PME. So graduates could still theoretically graduate with a 4 year degree but they wouldn't be recognised as qualified without the 5th year. I am only assuming that UL will go the same way. Can't see anything about it on their website though.


From NUIM website:

http://www.nuim.ie/study-maynooth/undergraduate-studies/courses/bsc-science-education

Teacher education in NUI Maynooth is a Masters Level qualification. For four years you will study as an undergraduate for a two-subject science degree, and complete 60 credits in education. After four years you are awarded a BSc Science (with Education); a level 8 degree.

In order to qualify to teach, students must progress into year five which carries the award Professional Master of Education (PME ), at Level 9. Upon graduation you will meet all the Teaching Council requirements to be registered as a Newly Qualified Teacher (NQT) in two subjects.

In effect, students do a four-year degree and then are exempt from the first year of the Professional Master of Education (from 2014 the PME will replace the PDE/HDip, and will become a two year course). Having completed the five years of the BSc Science (with Education) course, students have a Professional Masters of Education and are on an equal footing with graduates from the consecutive route (omnibus BSc and then PME i.e. four + two years).
- See more at: http://www.nuim.ie/study-maynooth/undergraduate-studies/courses/bsc-science-education#sthash.Df8nMiZK.dpuf

rainbowtrout

Teachack wrote: »

Oh wasn't told that. Says nothing about it in the course details. So like it was said, you go straight into year 2. I take it that you are guaranteed a place, ie, you won't have to fight for your place, like someone coming out of an arts degree? And where do these PME's take place? Sorry for all the stupid questions, I'd just like to know the situation before I set out

In the same college?

It would be a follow on course offered by the college.

Realistically given the example of Science in NUIM the four year degree is useless (for teaching) without the 5th year. So you have to look at it as a 5 year course from now on.

Teachack

rainbowtrout wrote: »

In the same college?

It would be a follow on course offered by the college.

Realistically given the example of Science in NUIM the four year degree is useless (for teaching) without the 5th year. So you have to look at it as a 5 year course from now on.

Would this be anything to do with it?

"PROFESSIONAL DIPLOMA IN EDUCATION (CONSTRUCTION STUDIES AND DESIGN AND COMMUNICATION GRAPHICS)"

If you go onto GMIT Letterfrack's page it's on the left hand side.

(sorry, can't post hyperlinks yet)

Thanks for your time, I know ye have a busy enough schedule as it is.

rainbowtrout

Teachack wrote: »

Would this be anything to do with it?

"PROFESSIONAL DIPLOMA IN EDUCATION (CONSTRUCTION STUDIES AND DESIGN AND COMMUNICATION GRAPHICS)"

If you go onto GMIT Letterfrack's page it's on the left hand side.

(sorry, can't post hyperlinks yet)

Thanks for your time, I know ye have a busy enough schedule as it is.

No, that's a postgrad course for people with a degree in woodwork, furniture design etc, but without a teaching qualification. It's basically the HDip specifically for construction and DCG.

Colleges may not have confirmed how they are going to provide the extra credits yet, i.e. extend the degree or transfer students into the PME for the 5th year like NUIM. They probably won't change the details on their websites until they have confirmed what they are going to do.

phish

Teachack wrote: »

Oh wasn't told that. Says nothing about it in the course details. So like it was said, you go straight into year 2. I take it that you are guaranteed a place, ie, you won't have to fight for your place, like someone coming out of an arts degree? And where do these PME's take place? Sorry for all the stupid questions, I'd just like to know the situation before I set out

I'm currently doing science ed in UL. We were told a year or so ago about this, the plan at that stage was to rearrange the course structure to include more education modules and more time on school placement.

Things may have changed between now and then but I'd imagine it will still be something similar as UL don't, as far as I know have an independent PME.

Teachack

But sure can they do that when a student has already started their degree. Wouldn't all of this need to be stated before starting 1st year in September? So as it stands, for example, someone that has already completed 1st year in the Wood and T.G will have to go on and do a 5th year? Look, I'll ring the individual colleges and see where they stand.

rainbowtrout

Teachack wrote: »

But sure can they do that when a student has already started their degree. Wouldn't all of this need to be stated before starting 1st year in September? So as it stands, for example, someone that has already completed 1st year in the Wood and T.G will have to go on and do a 5th year? Look, I'll ring the individual colleges and see where they stand.

Nobody can answer for sure when the colleges have yet to provide that information. I would imagine for students that have already started their degrees that colleges would provide extra modules within the four years in order to let them finish in four years. But that's only a guess.

I did Science Education in UL and the workload was quite heavy with the existing course content, it would seem like a more rational decision to extend all of their teaching training degrees to 5 years to make it fit.

phish

Teachack wrote: »

But sure can they do that when a student has already started their degree. Wouldn't all of this need to be stated before starting 1st year in September? So as it stands, for example, someone that has already completed 1st year in the Wood and T.G will have to go on and do a 5th year? Look, I'll ring the individual colleges and see where they stand.

No once you've started you're fine they would have to change it before CAO deadlines as far as I know. More than likely the UL courses won't change until September 2015 entry, and will only change for those starting then.

Wouldn't do any harm to ring the college and confirm this for yourself though.

Teachack

Will get onto the colleges so. Thanks for your guidance guys!

phish

The other option we were informed of (we were asked which we thought would be better) was to revert back to the old UL credit system and do six 5 credit modules per semester rather than five 6 credit modules as the changes are needed to bring in more education credits as there is already a surplus of subject credits.

Teachack

Hi, just to relply to this, I contacted both UL and GMIT. Both said that after your 4 years in the teacher training courses you are fully qualified and ready to teach. Furthermore, my career guidance teacher said that schools have to be informed of any changes, such as the one highlighted above at least two years before the changes are implemented, so that Leaving Cert students will be informed and can then decide - schools haven't been informed of any such change regarding these two courses.

ytareh

spurious wrote: »

The plan is obviously not just to kill teaching, but batter it round the yard with a shovel afterwards and then stamp on it.

Extend degrees and teacher training courses , impose internships ( the latest craic apparently is that teachers apply for advertised 'jobs' and then are told they're internships !) and then extend career period to fifty years .Anybody who doesn't have at least some sneaking suspicion that the government aren't trying to literally kill off teachers before they get their pensions must believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy also .Might be more humane in the long run to take the shovel to the graduates .....