Confusion over commision on one4all vouchers

hammerheadjack

Two work colleagues came to me recently and asked advice on entry level bikes. They are looking to purchase with the bike to work scheme. They showed me a few options they were interested in, One was from a well known shop in the midlands that I have used myself lets call them SHOP X. Having purchased form shop X for years (online) and been reasonably happy with my bang for buck I said they could do worse than call in even though its a fair drive. I advised one who was willing to spend a little more that he could not do any better than the ultergra carbon framed offering they have. He was interested and drove over. The guy there treated him grand and even let him take the carbon bike for a spin. He was mightily impressed.

Long story short, last Friday he heads back with the other work colleague in tow (1hr+ drive each way) and both have now decided to buy the alu frame entry level bike and blow the full grand on jackets, shoes and pedals etc. Different guy in shop wont let them take a bike for a spin. Seems to be very pissed off with them for some reason especially so when they show their ONE4ALL vouchers and states that it will cost them (shop X) 200 or so to cash the vouchers. he went away and talked to the boss (on the phone) and came back with what amounted to a charge of 177 each "comission" for using the vouchers. He complained about it costing them (shop X) money and seemed so agitated that neither of my colleagues could bring themselves to question it further. They both felt very akward and condensended to, the conversation at times seemed aggressive. They were both mightly annoyed and I could see that even yesterday when they told me about the encounter that they were still very upset or rather incredulous I suppose at being treated like that. needless to say they left with the vouchers in their pockets. They contacted HR at work here, she contacted "one4all" and was told that there should be no fees for use of the voucher. On the website it says "no fees or charges just tax free bikes". They had had afew complaints already and were trying to remove this shop from the list of shops on the website.

I 'm just wondering whats going on here? Its possible that there is some behind the scenes charge to bike sellers here and if thats the case then that should have been explained clearer. Other shops will give the full value no problem

My colleagues dont want to make a fuss but I'm curious as to whats going on because I'll be eligible again myself next year. Also I wanted to highlight what I feel was fairly shoddy treatment of two guys who travelled out of their way (twice) on my recommendation. They felt they were looked down on as "freds". Surely they deserved better treatment. Put yourself in their shoes. Bike shops can be intimidating if you dont know what you are on about, and maybe 1000 isnt much to guys used to dealing with with multiples of that, but to guys buying their first bike 1000 is a lot of money.

Kimbot

There is only an issue here with the shop in question.

They have a voucher to the value of the bikes yet the shop wont take them. (Also keep it in mind that the shop doesnt have to accept the vouchers unless they are on the list of places that take one4all)

I would get it in writing from one4all that there is no charges and bring it back in black and white to the shop.

hammerheadjack

I'm not going to add much more to this, but to clarify.

The shop would take the vouchers but charge my colleagues 177 each making the actual value of the voucher 823.
After testing the carbon bike he called and asked would they take one4all vouchers...answer was yes, and no mention of "commission"

The shop is listed on the one4all website. I'm assuming there is a fee for this, but I'm also sure that the intention is for the shop to pay this fee and to give the full value of the voucher to the customer.

"no fees" is emblazoned on the one4all website....meaning no fee to the voucher holder.

I'm just wondering what this fee actually is to the shop. could one4all really be charging shops 177 per 1000 euro voucher?

clog

I'm not condoning the behaviour of the shop in question but One4all do take a commission of 10%+vat on the total value of the voucher.

bbari

I went to a shop called Shop Y who asked me in black n white that whether I will be paying them by a cheque or a voucher. He said he will give me discount on accessories if I pay him by cheque but no discount if i pay by voucher. He said if i pay €1,000 by voucher he will only get €900 - not sure how true is that!

tunney

bbari wrote: »

I went to a shop called Shop Y who asked me in black n white that whether I will be paying them by a cheque or a voucher. He said he will give me discount on accessories if I pay him by cheque but no discount if i pay by voucher. He said if i pay €1,000 by voucher he will only get €900 - not sure how true is that!

Yeah its well known that you get better deals with cash/credit card rather the vouchers. they skim off the top

Chips Lovell

I'd report it to One4All.

ratracer

I had a one 4 all voucher that I got for a present at Christmas. I went to my lbs to use it as he was on the listing in the booklet as accepting them. However he told me he stopped accepting them 18 months previously as the dealer is charged about 11% from one 4 all so it wasn't worth his while accepting them with so little mark up left. He had tried to be removed from the booklet/ website many times but still had not been.

I didn't realise the merchant charges were so high, and I would not blame a merchant for not using them, although they should clearly point this out.

martin.mcevoy

Once you start using a One4all voucher they will charge you a monthly "maintenance fee". That was a massive shock to me when I checked my balance online. Months of €1.25 being debitted from my card.

YeahOK

Just get a refund on the one4all and offer to pay the cash refunded in place of the voucher....

http://www.one4all.ie/terms-conditions

hammerheadjack

As It turns out one of my colleagues had been emailing the shop and had told them that he would be using a voucher, and had a quote off them for the bike and shoes pedals etc. No mention whatsoever of a commission.

YeahOK: My Colleagues have vouchers as opposed to a one4all card and the vouchers cannot be cashed in. Good suggestion though.

10% +VAT would worst case come out at around €125 lets say, I dont know the vat rate. Looks like SHOP X were taking the piss charging €177. I have a SHOP X bike, and lots of SHOP X wheels. I will continue to use their stuff because its good for the price, but I will be dealing with Sheffield from now on

C-Shore

clog wrote: »

I'm not condoning the behaviour of the shop in question but One4all do take a commission of 10%+vat on the total value of the voucher.

bbari wrote: »

I went to a shop called Shop Y who asked me in black n white that whether I will be paying them by a cheque or a voucher. He said he will give me discount on accessories if I pay him by cheque but no discount if i pay by voucher. He said if i pay €1,000 by voucher he will only get €900 - not sure how true is that!

This is what's happening.

One4All take 10% off the voucher price for administration etc. (it's how they make their money) and only give €900 back in cash to the shop.

Essentially, the shop is trying to preserve their margin when you pay with a voucher.

Is it against the rules of One4All?
Yes.

Is it unethical?
That depends where you're coming from. The shop needs to make money, and don't want to lose out. One4all want to make money, so they set up the scheme to increase the amount of people going to an LBS to buy their bikes.

At the end of the day, everyone wants to get paid and have as much money in their pocket as possible.

In my own opinion, half of the new bike shops in Ireland wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the scheme and the other half of older shops would be out of business by now if it wasn't for the scheme.
I feel that your colleagues wouldn't have gone to the store if they didn't have the voucher, so it's bad that the shop is not willing to accept losing some margin in favour of being sent a sale they possibly didn't have to do a lot of work for.

Is it a disgrace?
They don't pay Road Tax Joe.

hammerheadjack

Totally agree C-Shore. That shop lost at least €300 profit no matter which way you look at it when the two lads walked out the door with their €2000 in their pockets. The fee to One4all should come out of their marketing budget. it advertises their shop to people who know nothing about cycling

That €300 more than covered the shop assistants wages. The shop assistant who was complaining about how bad business was. Well you don't have to look too far to see why business is bad. Any bike shop not making money from the bike to work scheme needs to ask themselves some hard questions.

Cape Clear

Just a few points on one4all the merchant fees/commission are quite high a lot higher than normal CC processing fees not very attractive to bike shop owners but shop X above didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in this instance. I worked for a company previously which has long since gone out of business and there name and logo appeared on the website for quite a few years after that.

C-Shore

hammerheadjack wrote: »

Totally agree C-Shore. That shop lost at least €300 profit no matter which way you look at it when the two lads walked out the door with their €2000 in their pockets. The fee to One4all should come out of their marketing budget. it advertises their shop to people who know nothing about cycling

You're exactly right, but so many bike shops don't realize this and are quite self entitled.

hammerheadjack wrote: »

That €300 more than covered the shop assistants wages. The shop assistant who was complaining about how bad business was. Well you don't have to look too far to see why business is bad. Any bike shop not making money from the bike to work scheme needs to ask themselves some hard questions.

I could write a book on Irish Bike Shops. While I believe there's a place for the LBS, it's stores like this that make me realize sales will go online, and service is all that will remain in an LBS so rather than being an LBS they'll become a Local Bike Workshop.
Even at that, some mechanics won't stay in business long either as there are some great mobile guys now that are running rings around them. Another thing I could write a book about!

i_surge

The underlying problem is lazy finance departments outsourcing the filling out of a simple revenue form to opportunistic bike to work middle man companies who are effectively charging €100+ for about 15 minutes work.

I was lucky I got bike to work the easy way. Handed a cheque for €1000 by my employer once I gave them the invoice from the bike shop.

hammerheadjack

Nail on the head i surge, but thats no excuse for the shop to take the piss. They would still have turned a decent profit from the 2K instead of letting it walk out the door. Thats what the lads couldnt understand. They came there to part with their money.