College Green vs St Stephen's Green as public transport interchanges

monument

As per the title.

This is a home for this debate so it does not take up ever thread discussing Dart Underground or Metro North.

hfallada

You can dig up the whole of St.Stephen green and concentrate all of the work in that small area. There is quite of a distance between the center of the green and the surrounding buildings. There is reduced risk of damage to the buildings. The two Luas has terminus there, meaning the Metro North and DART will link into the network perfectly.

Where as College green is a choke point. It has pretty much all buses going north and south in such a small area. It be very different to divert traffic for several years. You cant dig up college green due to the risk to the surrounding buildings. There is the BOI buildings and TCD buildings, which could be easily damaged by evacuation works.

AngryLips

Wait, isn't a routing of DU under College Green a much more indirect version of routing it in a straight line from Heuston to the point of the Northern Line where the existing plans envision it joining up? What about all the tunnelling money we will save by doing this more direct route? Either way, the underground will have to intersect Luas Cross City at some point so we can just put the intersection wherever that is. Somebody ring the RPA quick.

donvito99

Is it not a bit of a tight turn coming due south from Docklands to Pearse and then west to CG?

GerardKeating

donvito99 wrote: »

Is it not a bit of a tight turn coming due south from Docklands to Pearse and then west to CG?

The only viable option for a Station at CG would be to cut out Docklands and Pearse.

If we are getting the crayons out, then the lines could go in a straight line from Hueston (via CG) to link with the Northern Line at Fairview, and maybe a triangular junction at CG and go towards Pearse as well, then the loop line bridge could "disappear".

Another option could have been 3 DU lines,

• Hueston to Fairview
• Pearse to Broadstone
• Metro North/South

All with an Interchange at CG.

But I would imagine the Port tunnel has limited route options now.

Shedite27

Neither are great for bus interchanges, so we're really only talking DU/Luas interchange yeah?

IMO, Stephnes Greeen is the best spot for an underground exchange, College Green should be a plaza with no roads.

LXFlyer

Shedite27 wrote: »

Neither are great for bus interchanges, so we're really only talking DU/Luas interchange yeah?

IMO, Stephnes Greeen is the best spot for an underground exchange, College Green should be a plaza with no roads.

Why do you say neither is great for bus interchange?

St Stephen's Green has virtually every bus going to the south east (11, 37, 38/a, 39/a, 46a and 145) and south (14, 15/a/b, 44, 61, 140) of the city centre?

Added to that, the 9, 16, 65/b, 83 and 122 are within 5 minutes walk on Aungier Street.

Is that not enough?

Passengers going to the southwest can change at Christchurch.

SpaceTime

You can put something under a park with minimal impact on traffic flows during construction and with no long-term visual impact. The only proviso being that they restore the surface 'as is' and don't do anything stupid with it.

They're putting a fairly big metro and mainline two interchange under Schuman in Brussels which is a tight square where the European Commission HQ. The project is very slow (going on for 3 years so far) and is causing traffic issues and considerable disruption.

That being said most cities with metros have managed to slot them in to places like College Green without any damage or ugliness created.

Shedite27

lxflyer wrote: »

Why do you say neither is great for bus interchange?

St Stephen's Green has virtually every bus going to the south east (11, 37, 38/a, 39/a, 46a and 145) and south (14, 15/a/b, 44, 61, 140) of the city centre?

Added to that, the 9, 16, 65/b, 83 and 122 are within 5 minutes walk on Aungier Street.

Is that not enough?

Passengers going to the southwest can change at Christchurch.

What you're describing to me is just the city centre, with a network of busses. A "bus interchange" to me is an area where 10+ bus stops are in a designated area (say the Stephens Green Taxi rank). I don't think either has the space for that. If we're leaving it as is and calling that a bus interchange then yeah, certainly there's room for that.

To me, what you're describing is CG and SG at present.

LXFlyer

Shedite27 wrote: »

What you're describing to me is just the city centre, with a network of busses. A "bus interchange" to me is an area where 10+ bus stops are in a designated area (say the Stephens Green Taxi rank). I don't think either has the space for that. If we're leaving it as is and calling that a bus interchange then yeah, certainly there's room for that.

To me, what you're describing is CG and SG at present.

There's never been a plan for a bus station, but frankly St Stephen's Green is certainly fine for people to change from buses to trains.

Shedite27

lxflyer wrote: »

There's never been a plan for a bus station, but frankly St Stephen's Green is certainly fine for people to change from buses to trains.

Yeah I agree, so there's no need to "build" anything for busses, they just remain as is.

So as I was saying, the discussion is where is more suitable to build a DU/Luas interconnector.

Cinephille1888

3 possible plans if an interchange was to be placed here imo.

1: Most Likely

Metro North/Luas Green/Luas Lucan/ Bus

Metro North having an exit in the former toilets of College Street/Westmoreland.

Excavations difficult.

2 New platforms on College Street for Luas Loop return, and Lucan-Ringsend.

Bus gate priority and a public square.

2: Expensive circular argument.

Dart Underground/ MN/Luas Green/Luas Lucan/Bus/ Intercity Bus

A massive underground complex right under the junction features both Metro North and Dart Underground.

2 Stub platforms in Dart Station for shuttles to College Green and it's massive throughput of passengers.

Fare free access to Metro North Platforms.

Shared Concourse with station box in Green right in front of Trinity, and another in the traffic island on College Street.

Same Luas arrangement as above, but Lucan luas stop now right beside Front Arch exit to interchange.


3: Money is no object and conservation be damned:

Back buildings of Bank of Ireland/Gratton Parliament are knocked down. Any that are not directly part of original building are demolished for excavation of a massive underground interchange.

The interchange will be Metro North, Dart Underground, with stubs facing both directions, and Intercity Terminal platforms facing both directions/passing through.

Money is no object and facilities for a bus/coach/taxi rank are also somehow tunneled from Pearse Street to under Parliament. Then access tunels emerge on various side streets, possibly Suffolk/Trinity lane, Dame street, the little street that's a taxi rank at present beside starbucks/ wax museum.

Luas and buses fly past the cut back railings of both BOI and Trinity and a larger plaza is facilitated by this land grab.


To support the large stations a spindle of concrete is injected into the surrounding soil and foundations like the Jubilee line station at Westminster. This also holds up all the old buildings and protects them from subsidence...


This ambitious and vandal like plan is praised for forward thinking use of interchanges and everything is flawless underground.

Cross-platform interchange, step free access throughout, fare free transfer, cafe's in the historic building, waiting rooms of great luxury, Intercity buses loading/unloading within metres of platforms on their own rapid transit bays.

It would be the envy of the world and possibly cost less then the World Trade centre station...

Grandeeod

Pray that a politician doesnt get hold of this thread or you can kiss the slim chance of DU goodbye. There is a history in Irish transport of reinventing the wheel.

Losty Dublin

Grandeeod wrote: »

Pray that a politician doesnt get hold of this thread or you can kiss the slim chance of DU goodbye. There is a history in Irish transport of reinventing the wheel.

Uninventing the wheel more like.

Grandeeod

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Uninventing the wheel more like.

Depends which side you are on.:D

Banjoxed

Grandeeod wrote: »

Pray that a politician doesnt get hold of this thread or you can kiss the slim chance of DU goodbye. There is a history in Irish transport of reinventing the wheel.

I think that's the idea behind it. The purpose of crayonism has been shown to be disruptive and a delaying tactic in the past.

SpaceTime

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Uninventing the wheel more like.

And spending decades of R&D on the new Square Wheel (tm) only to discover it doesn't work and must be stored in Limerick Junction to rust for 20 years while new standard round wheels are ordered.