Outdoor Rearing Calves

O2b

What systems have you in place if your involved in outdoor rearing?

What are your experiences?

Timmaay

O2b wrote: »

What systems have you in place if your involved in outdoor rearing?

What are your experiences?

From what age? Anyways for me, sheltered field with grass covers that are kept low enough, 1100kg max, and a gate to hang the calf trough off, that's about it ha!

O2b

From 4 weeks of age. Bought end of february. Angus mostly. Was indoor rearing this year. Looking at expanding numbers and idea of outdoor rearing seems attractive.

Have read into all the teagasc trials etc. this idea of a few round bales in a cross just seems too little for me without overhead protection. Good wet wether mixed with a good frost would surely be too much for young calves.

Would outdoor rearing be suited to february born calves or is it too early to be outdoor rearing?

RightTurnClyde

O2b wrote: »

From 4 weeks of age. Bought end of february. Angus mostly. Was indoor rearing this year. Looking at expanding numbers and idea of outdoor rearing seems attractive.

Have read into all the teagasc trials etc. this idea of a few round bales in a cross just seems too little for me without overhead protection. Good wet wether mixed with a good frost would surely be too much for young calves.

Would outdoor rearing be suited to february born calves or is it too early to be outdoor rearing?

Feb born calves can go out in March at 4'weeks. Put them in a dry sheltered paddock, it needs to be good and big, don't bother with huts ( they don't work).
The one thing that will beat them is cold wet and windy weather.
Feed them well, twice a day ( I feed yogurt.. Recommended) and it'll work fine.

Timmaay

Let them out let them out let them out! They servived for millions of years being outside from day one before we domesticated them!

_Brian

Timmaay wrote: »

Let them out let them out let them out! They servived for millions of years being outside from day one before we domesticated them!

They did..
But we've since interfered with their gene pool, moved many from their original climate and while as a species they did survive I wonder what was their mortality rate ? they would survive a few bad years with maybe 50-60% mortality rate in the wild.. how many of our farms would survive them sorts of mortality rates..

We found that rearing outdoors is good but if you give them access to a bedded area they ALWAYS used it and in my opinion were the better for it too.

ganmo

If you let them out they're going to get hit by the weather(keeping warm & drying off takes energy away from growth).
But better outside then over-crowded inside

exercise is the antidote

Have most of our calves out on grass full time since 14th rest of them will be out this week..Before weaning we let them out into grass close to the yard after milk in the morning and to get use to electric fence...bring them back in for milk in the evening with a cosy bed. Eventually take out the evening feed giving plenty of meal.. Then out too grass full time.. We make sure calves are 10weeks when weaning so would be 12-13weeks when on grass day and night..
Would this be indoor or outdoor I'm not sure ha!

P.s if we had a 10 teat or more feeder they would be out a lot quicker! Anyone use they white feeder that Connacht agri advertise in the journal? Free standing one?

allbuiz

Sure normal cattle could hardly handle storm Darwin never mind calves

Sam Kade

Timmaay wrote: »

Let them out let them out let them out! They servived for millions of years being outside from day one before we domesticated them!

But calves had their mothers to look after them unlike dairy calves also there were plenty bushes and wooded areas for them to get shelter.

frazzledhome

Moved from outdoor rearing to indoor 2 yrs ago because of a few bad experiences. On analysis we were using the wrong paddocks. Had no fewer treated calves indoor.

Changed back to outdoor this year and delighted with the results. Calves are started in batches of 10 till we get a group of 40 equal drinkers. We then move to a sheltered paddock with a hut provided aswell as an adlib crow protected feeder.

All vaccines and de horning is done one week before turnout. Calves would typically be one mth old going out and as the weather improves they can go out earlier. For instance no calves go out in Feb but April calves go after about 10 days as weather is usually better.

They are fed twice a day with a mobile 50 teat feeder for about 3-4 days after turn out. Once settled we feed OAD with min 500gms powder and 3 litres of water. We will of course bring in any under the weather calves. Calves weaned between 7-9 weeks. We find stronger calves eating more grass and meal with less health problems. Shelter is a must in Mar and April. Group never exceeds 40

Deepsouthwest

Calves go out here ideally at 6/7 wks for the oldest, but as young as 3 wks for the youngest, if the weathers fine then we try and get them. Milk twice a day for the first 10 days or so outside, and then OAD after. They'll stay on milk until nearly 4/5 mths old, although volume of milk per head will be v low towards the end, mostly just rinse of the milk line and a few high scc/low protein cows, this is still enough to keep them ticking over until they hit aftergrass

keep going

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Calves go out here ideally at 6/7 wks for the oldest, but as young as 3 wks for the youngest, if the weathers fine then we try and get them. Milk twice a day for the first 10 days or so outside, and then OAD after. They'll stay on milk until nearly 4/5 mths old, although volume of milk per head will be v low towards the end, mostly just rinse of the milk line and a few high scc/low protein cows, this is still enough to keep them ticking over until they hit aftergrass

Similar here , theres a point in the year when its easier to keep them in and then and other times its easier to have them out.four important points, shelter, shelter, shelter and then the weather.wouldnt agree with earlier post about huts , I have a few of the big hutches and find them very handy-sometimes there be steam out of them the wet day when they pack in but they would only stand in when its raining

frazzledhome

keep going wrote: »

Similar here , theres a point in the year when its easier to keep them in and then and other times its easier to have them out.four important points, shelter, shelter, shelter and then the weather.wouldnt agree with earlier post about huts , I have a few of the big hutches and find them very handy-sometimes there be steam out of them the wet day when they pack in but they would only stand in when its raining

What I called huts are nothing like hutches. They are open on one side completely. I'd put with covered side facing SW for shelter from rain. They only go there if raining hard I've noticed. At this stage no need for them. I'll post a pic when I'm near them again. I don't put any bedding in as it only encouraged them to lie there, it shelter only.

Greengrass1

frazzledhome wrote: »

What I called huts are nothing like hutches. They are open on one side completely. I'd put with covered side facing SW for shelter from rain. They only go there if raining hard I've noticed. At this stage no need for them. I'll post a pic when I'm near them again. I don't put any bedding in as it only encouraged them to lie there, it shelter only.

First year rearing calves outdoors here. Love it. Not one scour. Would have scours every second day in the shed. Have no hutch for them. There on a field beside yard that house entrance is on. Top half of field has a high ditch where a line of beech trees ( 100yr old) sit on. So plenty of shelter there. And bottom half has maybe 10 ancient fully grown lime trees that have loads of branches over them.
Find calves are either in one of those two spots when its raining or in the middle of the field when its a nice day

onyerbikepat

If you watch sucklers with their calves, they always shelter them from the driving rain. They'll stand in front of them and even lie down on the up-wind side of them.

O2b

What make of mobile feeders do people use and what do ye make of them?

Could imagine it being difficult to get through a crowd of 50 hungry calves with one.

O2b

ganmo wrote: »

If you let them out they're going to get hit by the weather(keeping warm & drying off takes energy away from growth).
But better outside then over-crowded inside

Trials would suggest insignificant weight gain differences for outdoor and indoor rearing. Infact even maginally better for outdoor.

Mirror game

What kinda weights and what kinda prices, would you be expecting for 8 month old angus and whitehead heifer calves?
Take it that the calves are given all recommended treatment, milk replacer, meal and put on good quality land.

_Brian

Mirror game wrote: »

What kinda weights and what kinda prices, would you be expecting for 8 month old angus and whitehead heifer calves?
Take it that the calves are given all recommended treatment, milk replacer, meal and put on good quality land.

This is the worst time to be selling them at. You'll have the whole expense and risk associated with rearing them, and then just when they are ready to thrive you'll be selling them on..

Mirror game

_Brian wrote: »

This is the worst time to be selling them at. You'll have the whole expense and risk associated with rearing them, and then just when they are ready to thrive you'll be selling them on..

Sorry- haven't even got um yet, just considering it for next year, buy in winter/spring sell in autumn.
I've only got the land with no sheds or any other facilities but would be be able to buy some stock and certain amount of gear.

O2b

Youd only be working for larry in that type set up imo. Wouldnt be money in it at all, you be selling these animals at a time when most suckler weanlings would be sold and dairy stock jus wouldnt make money.

Youd be aiming for a target weight of 230kg with these animals for 8 months (dont hve figures with me but roughly) and depending on quality youd be getting about €450 id be guessing. Cost of bring calf to this point is not far off €250 i worked out previously(inc mortalities etc) Put your calf cost onto this and ur at nothing.

Think it was Pudsey who made the point before that in a calf to beef system theres only really margin for one farmer start to finish, and hes right.

Mirror game

O2b wrote: »

Youd be aiming for a target weight of 230kg with these animals for 8 months (dont hve figures with me but roughly) and depending on quality youd be getting about €450 id be guessing. Cost of bring calf to this point is not far off €250 i worked out previously(inc mortalities etc) Put your calf cost onto this and ur at nothing.

Think it was Pudsey who made the point before that in a calf to beef system theres only really margin for one farmer start to finish, and hes right.

230kg I hoped the target weight might be a good bit higher. If there was a reasonable chance of getting €60 /€70 a head, i'd give it a go and go in for high numbers. That is high numbers for a smallish farm. 40 acres.

O2b

Key to sucess is high stocking rate really in this system. And i should say that that figure was what I haf worked out at a low stocking rate for land i was considering renting, witha view to improving soil index and stocking rate with it.

Mirror game

If going ahead with it i'll have do a lot more looking into the rearing side of things, feeding meal mike replacer etc...
Was considering something along the lines of getting 30 in mid jan, 30 in mid feb and 30 again in march and start selling off from mid august. The work load with this system would fall in well with my own job.


I'm assuming i'd be well within the stocking rate at this ?

Would they be on meal throughout the year?

What is the best age to buy?

Where is best place to buy Mart or private?

O2b

Mirror game wrote: »

If going ahead with it i'll have do a lot more looking into the rearing side of things, feeding meal mike replacer etc...
Was considering something along the lines of getting 30 in mid jan, 30 in mid feb and 30 again in march and start selling off from mid august. The work load with this system would fall in well with my own job.


I'm assuming i'd be well within the stocking rate at this ?
Plenty, u only know ur land though, ur biggest problem without having yearlings running behind will be keeping grass from going too strong/taking out paddocks. Dont know would it even be possible without stronger animals cleaning down paddocks after calves.

Would they be on meal throughout the year?
1kg of meal throughout often makes sense- ul have to work this out depending on grass quality

What is the best age to buy?
3weeks at least, 4 preferably. any younger and your bringing hardship on yourself

Where is best place to buy Mart or private?
Think if ur dealing in numbers mart is only job, too many lads selling private have unrealistic expectations.


Start with a few and go from there, theres more work than ud imagine, efficient system is essential.

Mirror game

O2b wrote: »

within the stocking rate at this ?
Plenty, u only know ur land though, ur biggest problem without having yearlings running behind will be keeping grass from going too strong/taking out paddocks. Dont know would it even be possible without stronger animals cleaning down paddocks after calves.

I'll have a look into this.This kinda stuff I'd be unaware of, wouldn't have that much farming experience but i'll be getting there.

O2b wrote: »

efficient system is essential.

This is where i'd be hoping to do well over time.Anyways thanks op, i'll probably have more Q's next time i'll start my own thread.

Mirror game

O2b wrote: »

What is the best age to buy?
3weeks at least, 4 preferably. any younger and your bringing hardship on yourself

When buying at this age to avoid hardship, does that mean, calf deaths or work load or a bit of both?
Could it be better to take on board some of this hardship and try make a deal/understanding with dairy famers, buying the calves younger at a better price?

Base price

Mirror game wrote: »

When buying at this age to avoid hardship, does that mean, calf deaths or work load or a bit of both?
Could it be better to take on board some of this hardship and try make a deal/understanding with dairy famers, buying the calves younger at a better price?

We buy direct from farmers mainly for the reason that there is less stress on calves and therefore less health problems. You also build up a relationship with farmers over the years. We find in easier to accumulate numbers quickly this way rather than standing a mart all day competing with other buyers. We normally start to buy in Jan and finish in March - Dec, Jan, Feb and early March born calves. Most calves would be 2 weeks old. Buying them in early has pros and cons.
The pros are that your calves are ready to utilise May grass (weather dependant), the export trade normally only gets into full swing in late Feb so prices are normally less up to then, the stove is used in the house so always hot water on hand for milk replacer.
Con's are that you are working in winter conditions and in the dark for evening feeds, more straw required as they have to stay in longer unless the weather is good enough to let them out, more meal and hay required as no grass available.
The one thing that we always do here is to vaccinate them on arrival with Rispoval and dose them with Bovicox.

eddiek

there seems to be a reasonable amount of bbx calves available at maybe €50 to €80 more than similar age hex or aax calves. are these worth the extra money when rearing to steers at 18 months or to finish under 30 months as steers?not talking about bull beef or sellin at 7/8 months.

Mirror game

Base price wrote: »

We buy direct from farmers mainly for the reason that there is less stress on calves and therefore less health problems. You also build up a relationship with farmers over the years. We find in easier to accumulate numbers quickly this way rather than standing a mart all day competing with other buyers. We normally start to buy in Jan and finish in March - Dec, Jan, Feb and early March born calves. Most calves would be 2 weeks old. Buying them in early has pros and cons.
The pros are that your calves are ready to utilise May grass (weather dependant), the export trade normally only gets into full swing in late Feb so prices are normally less up to then, the stove is used in the house so always hot water on hand for milk replacer.
Con's are that you are working in winter conditions and in the dark for evening feeds, more straw required as they have to stay in longer unless the weather is good enough to let them out, more meal and hay required as no grass available.
The one thing that we always do here is to vaccinate them on arrival with Rispoval and dose them with Bovicox.

If i'm going ahead with it, I was thinking of contacting farmers or putting in a few adverts locally. Surely if a buyer was reliable, as in, called and paid a fair price for the calves at the dairy farmers convenience, it would be worth something .

About Straw? I'm planning on building a smallish shed for around 8 or 9 grand should I put in cow matts - would these cut down on the need for staw?

If I build this shed with water and electricty get a small tractor and spreader and get milkreplacer feeding equipment is there anything else substantial i'll need?

Base price

Personally I would only use straw for calves. I have no experience of using cow mats even with cows.
If you can eliminate draughts, have excellent ventilation and hygiene then you will have fewer problems.

Mirror game

Well, I will be using straw just wounder could I cut down on the amount.
Although having just had a quick look at the cost of matts and taking into account the area i'd be covering I might be giving that idea a miss.

Good loser

Mirror game wrote: »

Well, I will be using straw just wounder could I cut down on the amount.
Although having just had a quick look at the cost of matts and taking into account the area i'd be covering I might be giving that idea a miss.

Yes cow mats would be no help. All you need for feeding replacer is a water heater or 2/3 jug kettles and a 5/10 teat feeder.

The more calves stay out the less straw needed. If some straw is spread out on a concrete yard they will lie out quite a bit - it'ill dry out in the good days whereas stuff inside once wet stays wet.

Tractor for spreading fert is it? Could you leave that until Year 2? For cash flow.

ganmo

O2b wrote: »

Trials would suggest insignificant weight gain differences for outdoor and indoor rearing. Infact even maginally better for outdoor.

http://www.irishvetjournal.org/content/65/1/18

this is where i was basing my statement on, table 1 + 2 shows a difference between indoors and outdoor fed calves, in favor of indoor

Mirror game

Good loser wrote: »

Yes cow mats would be no help. All you need for feeding replacer is a water heater or 2/3 jug kettles and a 5/10 teat feeder.

The more calves stay out the less straw needed. If some straw is spread out on a concrete yard they will lie out quite a bit - it'ill dry out in the good days whereas stuff inside once wet stays wet.

Tractor for spreading fert is it? Could you leave that until Year 2? For cash flow.

Considered that cos all I need is a few days spreading but having considered it some more i'll need a tractor for a few other jobs, such as dealing with the straw bedding.
I can put in a heap close to the shed but might be better if it went into tractor trailer and carried away and tipped out at more suitable spot. Which brings me to the next question;
What can be done with this bedding given that it will have little dung in it?

Good loser

Wouldn't get tractor to deal with straw bedding. Make entrance to shed big enough for a large tractor to get in to clean out. Especially for height. Might need 11 ft or 11ft 6in.

Suggest to heap in yard and spread once a year. In the Autumn as Nitrates people don't like it lying around.

With 3 sets of calves get loader in to clean and heap each time after first two batches and spread after third.