Sat 17th May

obezyana

Buckland looks well out of shape.

megadodge

obezyana wrote: »

Buckland looks well out of shape.

???

Out of shape? He's non-stop from start to finish!

bellybuster12

Cracking fight that was, and now for the biggest fraud in boxing Cleverly.

Johnnythefox4

Cruiserweight really is the runt of boxing divisions

megadodge

pac_man wrote: »

I'm not convinced Clev is a cruiserweight.

I'm not either, he doesn't look 'big' enough. Too slender. I feel the first strong cruiser that meets him could have him in trouble.

megadodge

Lee Selby putting on a masterclass here. When he's in full flow he really is brilliant to watch. Wonderful punch variety.

megadodge

pac_man wrote: »

Do you reckon that lack of power will hurt his chances of winning a world title?

He isn't a big puncher, but I think he realises that and doesn't box in a way where he's trying to show everybody that he's something he's not - in other words, he doesn't go in trying to blast guys out. I don't think it will affect him, as he has excellent skills, movement and engine. I also think he has a good chin. I'm very keen on him and think he can go all the way.

Deiseboy01

He ll get stopped by the first top level fighter he meets. Looks great when he has time to box. Under pressure he ll struggle IMO. Defense is not the best. Believes he's got a better chin than he does. Recipe for disaster. That said Hearn will pick the right fights for him so may get a 'world' title belt.

Johnnythefox4

megadodge wrote: »

He isn't a big puncher, but I think he realises that and doesn't box in a way where he's trying to show everybody that he's something he's not - in other words, he doesn't go in trying to blast guys out. I don't think it will affect him, as he has excellent skills, movement and engine. I also think he has a good chin. I'm very keen on him and think he can go all the way.

Do you think he would beat Johnny Gonzalez? I could see Gonzalez walking thru his punches and knocking him out

Johnnythefox4

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

He ll get stopped by the first top level fighter he meets. Looks great when he has time to box. Under pressure he ll struggle IMO. Defense is not the best. Believes he's got a better chin than he does. Recipe for disaster. That said Hearn will pick the right fights for him so may get a 'world' title belt.

Not many handy world title fights in this division though

megadodge

Johnnythefox4 wrote: »

Do you think he would beat Johnny Gonzalez? I could see Gonzalez walking thru his punches and knocking him out

I think Gonzalez is very beatable. Definitely past his best and can be outboxed. He always has the big punch of course, but I think Selby can beat him right now.

megadodge

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

He ll get stopped by the first top level fighter he meets. Looks great when he has time to box. Under pressure he ll struggle IMO. Defense is not the best. Believes he's got a better chin than he does. Recipe for disaster. That said Hearn will pick the right fights for him so may get a 'world' title belt.

Disagree strongly. He's very, very hard to pin down with his excellent movement and combined with a high workrate and extremely impressive punch variety, I think he'll hold his own at 'world' title level. He's the type of boxer not many will want to face as he's going to be hard to look good against.

megadodge

I also believe power is the most overrated quality when it comes to qualities required to win a world title. I'd always have higher expectations of a boxer with exceptional skills than one with exceptional punch power.

Deiseboy01

megadodge wrote: »

Disagree strongly. He's very, very hard to pin down with his excellent movement and combined with a high workrate and extremely impressive punch variety, I think he'll hold his own at 'world' title level. He's the type of boxer not many will want to face as he's going to be hard to look good against.

We ll have to disagree about that. Watching him against the Romanian lad or the last domestic fight I thought he struggled. These were not top level guys. The Mexican tonight was very average. It's a big step up to world level and I think he may struggle with fighters who pressure for 12 rds and have a bit more to thm that plodding forward in straight lines.

megadodge

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

We ll have to disagree about that. Watching him against the Romanian lad or the last domestic fight I thought he struggled. These were not top level guys. The Mexican tonight was very average. It's a big step up to world level and I think he may struggle with fighters who pressure for 12 rds and have a bit more to thm that plodding forward in straight lines.

I agree that he wasn't impressive against Simion, but I think you're undervaluing the Romanian.

I firmly believe the bigger the fight the better he will be. He just has so much to his game compared to the average 'prospect'. I suspect whoever he fights in a 'world' title bout will find him a very difficult opponent, irrespective of the result.

obezyana

megadodge wrote: »

???

Out of shape? He's non-stop from start to finish!

Yep out of shape he was in bits the last few rounds. Rees looked like he could of gone another 3 rounds Buckland looked out of it by the end. I understand they gave their all in both fights but I think in this particular fight Buckland didn't look like he was as fit as he was before.

megadodge

obezyana wrote: »

Yep out of shape he was in bits the last few rounds. Rees looked like he could of gone another 3 rounds Buckland looked out of it by the end. I understand they gave their all in both fights but I think in this particular fight Buckland didn't look like he was as fit as he was before.

You posted your original post very early in the fight. I fail to see how you could have thought that that early. In any event he went the 12 rounds and never looked like getting stopped although he lost clearly in my book.

megadodge

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

He ll get stopped by the first top level fighter he meets. Looks great when he has time to box. Under pressure he ll struggle IMO. Defense is not the best. Believes he's got a better chin than he does. Recipe for disaster. That said Hearn will pick the right fights for him so may get a 'world' title belt.

On those two highlighted points. I'm not sure what you mean by "believes he's got a better chin than he does". Has he been on about how good his chin is (serious question)?

As for defense I think he has a very good one. The problem with any conversations on defense nowadays is that everybody compares any defense being mentioned to Mayweather's - which is extremely unfair. There's a hell of a lot of grey between the black and white. Selby's movement is excellent, it's constant side-to-side, comfortable both ways. He has very good upper body movement and his head movement is pretty good also. He's not easy to hit and when someone's trying to pin him down they're getting hit with an array of unpredictable punches. He's frustrating to fight, which is a recipe for success.

obezyana

megadodge wrote: »

You posted your original post very early in the fight. I fail to see how you could have thought that that early. In any event he went the 12 rounds and never looked like getting stopped although he lost clearly in my book.

The early rounds are sometimes a good indicator of an out of shape boxer.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Anyone see Marquez last night. Boxed beautifully.

That coupled with Alvarado being very gun shy!

walshb

Selby is no doubt a lovely boxer//mover, but he hasn't met anyone with real quality yet. I'll wait and see.

Deiseboy01

megadodge wrote: »

On those two highlighted points. I'm not sure what you mean by "believes he's got a better chin than he does". Has he been on about how good his chin is (serious question)?

As for defense I think he has a very good one. The problem with any conversations on defense nowadays is that everybody compares any defense being mentioned to Mayweather's - which is extremely unfair. There's a hell of a lot of grey between the black and white. Selby's movement is excellent, it's constant side-to-side, comfortable both ways. He has very good upper body movement and his head movement is pretty good also. He's not easy to hit and when someone's trying to pin him down they're getting hit with an array of unpredictable punches. He's frustrating to fight, which is a recipe for success.

I think we re going to have to disagree in this one. I see him getting caught way too often by limited fighters.

Also yes he's been on about his chin quite a bit. Stating he's been hit by much bigger guys and never been hurt. I seem to remember Cruisers being mentioned which is mental!

Thing is if seen him buzzed in a few if his fights against limited enough opponents.

megadodge

obezyana wrote: »

The early rounds are sometimes a good indicator of an out of shape boxer.

He went 12 very hard rounds and never looked like being stopped.

That's definitely NOT an indicator of an out of shape boxer.

megadodge

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

I think we re going to have to disagree in this one. I see him getting caught way too often by limited fighters.

Also yes he's been on about his chin quite a bit. Stating he's been hit by much bigger guys and never been hurt. I seem to remember Cruisers being mentioned which is mental!

Thing is if seen him buzzed in a few if his fights against limited enough opponents.

We'll definitely have to disagree on that point, because I've no recollection of him ever being hurt. What fights are you referring to?

weemcd

Very impressed with Marquez, a little different to his usual counter punching style as he took the lead for most of the fight. caught Alvarado with a peach of a right hand that send him crashing down under the bottom rope.

Last few rounds were a nice tear up too, there was a little bit of everything in that fight. Marquez has long been one of (if not) my favorite boxers to watch, ring smarts, counter ability and not afraid of a good rumble when it's called for.

walshb

weemcd wrote: »

Very impressed with Marquez, a little different to his usual counter punching style as he took the lead for most of the fight. caught Alvarado with a peach of a right hand that send him crashing down under the bottom rope.

Last few rounds were a nice tear up too, there was a little bit of everything in that fight. Marquez has long been one of (if not) my favorite boxers to watch, ring smarts, counter ability and not afraid of a good rumble when it's called for.

Yeh, Marquez is one brave counter puncher. Not too much concerned with defense. Can be great to watch. Can be a bit too negative at times.

weemcd

walshb wrote: »

Yeh, Marquez is one brave counter puncher. Not too much concerned with defense. Can be great to watch. Can be a bit too negative at times.

He was a bit negative in the Bradley fight and it cost him, I've enjoyed most of his recent fights aside from that one though. Wonder who he faces next, any ideas? I've no interest in Pac again and little interest in Mayweather again either

Deiseboy01

megadodge wrote: »

We'll definitely have to disagree on that point, because I've no recollection of him ever being hurt. What fights are you referring to?

Seem to remember him getting shaken by both Simion and Walsh plus the Mexican lad shook him once on Saturday night.

Look I'm not disagreeing with you. He's a decent fighter. I'm just not convinced he's top level. May prove me wrong. I hope for his sake he does. I just see him getting hit a bit by average fighters. Allowed to box at distance in his comfort zone. Not looking brilliant when pressured strongly at times. Just think if he were to fight a Donaire etc he d struggle.

megadodge

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Seem to remember him getting shaken by both Simion and Walsh plus the Mexican lad shook him once on Saturday night.

Look I'm not disagreeing with you. He's a decent fighter. I'm just not convinced he's top level. May prove me wrong. I hope for his sake he does. I just see him getting hit a bit by average fighters. Allowed to box at distance in his comfort zone. Not looking brilliant when pressured strongly at times. Just think if he were to fight a Donaire etc he d struggle.

Again we'll have to disagree because the Mexican never shook him. You're seeing something that isn't there. That doesn't mean if Donaire nails him clean he won't go down, but there's no shame in that. I actually think he'd be a nightmare for Donaire, who just doesn't throw enough punches and is significantly smaller than Selby.

Anyway, hopefully he'll get some form of a shot in the next year and we'll see how he'll do.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Given the affliation with top rank, a fight with Provodnikov would be a good scrap.

Couldn't agree more. Stylistically this makes for a brilliant fight. I believe Ruslan would go hell for leather, and in doing so would bring out the absolute best from JMM. Garcia-JMM may be a bore-fest, but I'd like to see it. Could Garcia outbox JMM?

Deiseboy01

megadodge wrote: »

Again we'll have to disagree because the Mexican never shook him. You're seeing something that isn't there. That doesn't mean if Donaire nails him clean he won't go down, but there's no shame in that. I actually think he'd be a nightmare for Donaire, who just doesn't throw enough punches and is significantly smaller than Selby.

Anyway, hopefully he'll get some form of a shot in the next year and we'll see how he'll do.

Selby v Stephen Smith rematch who wins?

megadodge

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Selby v Stephen Smith rematch who wins?

Strangely enough, I've always maintained the entire Smith family are overrated, but ever since the Selby loss Stephen has done nothing but impress me. His win over Buckland (and the finishing uppercut) was boxing class. However, he got a right hammering from Selby and it's hard to recover mentally from that kind of a beating. I would expect a much sterner test from Smith second time round, but think Selby would win on points.

On a side note, I think Callum Smith has good potential too, but I'll wait a bit longer before making further comments on him.

Deiseboy01

megadodge wrote: »

Strangely enough, I've always maintained the entire Smith family are overrated, but ever since the Selby loss Stephen has done nothing but impress me. His win over Buckland (and the finishing uppercut) was boxing class. However, he got a right hammering from Selby and it's hard to recover mentally from that kind of a beating. I would expect a much sterner test from Smith second time round, but think Selby would win on points.

On a side note, I think Callum Smith has good potential too, but I'll wait a bit longer before making further comments on him.

Yeah he looks to have the most potential out of the lot of them. Remarkable family story.