Air Rifle Range / Shooting for 13 year old

MickC66

Hi all,

my 13 year old has declared in interest in learning target shooting. As he is to young for rimfire was wondering if anyone can advise a range for air rifles in the North Dublin area that accommodates / trains younger air rifle enthusiasts.

thanks

Mick

It wasn't me!

MickC66 wrote: »

Hi all,

my 13 year old has declared in interest in learning target shooting. As he is to young for rimfire was wondering if anyone can advise a range for air rifles in the North Dublin area that accommodates / trains younger air rifle enthusiasts.

thanks

Mick

It's a little north of north Dublin but Wilkinstown target shooting club might be your best bet. It's just outside of Navan, so wouldn't be too bad a drive over. Nice facilities and a good history of training juniors.

tac foley

MickC66 wrote: »

Hi all,

my 13 year old has declared in interest in learning target shooting. As he is to young for rimfire was wondering if anyone can advise a range for air rifles in the North Dublin area that accommodates / trains younger air rifle enthusiasts.

thanks

Mick

'Kay, Gentlemen, can a kind soul there explain why a 13-year old is 'too young for rimfire'?

Is it Irish firearms law or a club ruling?

TIA.

tac

MickC66

You have to be over 16 years of age before you can apply for a firearms certificate. You have to be over 14 years of age before you can apply for a firearms training certificate.

as per Dept of Justice regulations


Mick

tac foley

Thanks for that.

tac

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

'Kay, Gentlemen, can a kind soul there explain why a 13-year old is 'too young for rimfire'?
Is it Irish firearms law or a club ruling?

Neither.
Generally we wouldn't start them on rimfire that early in ISSF, but that's because the rimfire rifles are much heavier rather than anything else. With lighter rifles, it's not such a big deal.

(No, they can't own their own rifles. Yes, they are perfectly legal to shoot on a range, under section 2(4)(d). No, you'd have to be monumentally dumb if not downright evil to let them do so without supervision and training).

tac foley

Sparks, I wasn't suggesting doing anything 'monumentally dumb if not downright evil to let them do so without supervision and training'. I've been an NRA Club coach and firearms [rifle and handgun] distinguished instructor since 1978, so I'm well aware of the requirements for supervision and safety, since I also teach it on a live-firing range three times a week.

In other countries, youngsters are allowed to start at a much earlier age - I was six - although most here in UK that we see ACCOMPANIED by their club-member parents are around ten or so.

One of the factors you note is one of the relative size of the youngsters today. We have ten-yo's who look fourteen [especially the girls], and many of us, me included, have smaller-scale rifles to suit those of smaller stature.

Two of the major limiting factors in the RoI have to be the combination of the laws governing the ownership of airguns of any kind [over 1 Joule], and the limitations on where they might be used for practice.

Given those extreme hindrances, I can understand why the laws are set at the ages they are, although, like many laws regarding firearms [and airguns] they owe little to the application of basic common sense.

tac

Cass

While limited to a range it does mean a youngster of any age can learn to shoot. Better than nothing.

Cass

You already seem to know this, but i'm saying it as a note and just to be clear. He can legally use your rifle on a range. If you have access to one bring him there.

Air rifles, under law, are the same as a rimfire so there is no distinction. Frankly you could let him shoot a .308 on a range if he didn't weight less than the rifle

MickC66

Exactly... have talked through weapons safety with him myself but looking to stay legal and find a suitable range that would let him use air rifle..

My own range wont allow under 14's unfortunately...

thanks

Mick

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

Sparks, I wasn't suggesting ...

It wasn't written for you tac, this is a public forum. It was written for those members of the public reading it whose first thought would be "OH MY GOD YOU GIVE BABIES GUNS".

Cass

MickC66 wrote: »

My own range wont allow under 14's unfortunately...

Yeah, i've seen different rules on different ranges. It's their prerogative unfortunately.

MickC66

Hopefully someone knows of one out there...

we can disagree with the regulations / laws but unfortunately they are there and we have to work within them..

Was a major shock to me when I moved from the States...

thanks anyway,

Mick

Cass

I'd say so.

Some ranges impose "self bans" out of misunderstanding of the law. Others from a "fear" of any possible issues arising from it. There are some that know the law and allow it as it's completely legal.

Are ya willing to travel. There are a few ranges within an hour from Dublin. Ring them first and see if they allow guests, and teens.

Here is a list of ranges.

It wasn't me!

I'm still going to suggest Wilkinstown myself as they have the strongest history I know of of any club in working with juniors. It's airgun only, but he can look at other options down the line for cartridge rifle if that's how he wants to go, and their membership is very reasonable as I recall.

Milkthief

Is there much hassle in setting up a air rifle range/ club as I am considering looking into setting one up??

Cass

Yes. So i'd consider, thinking about, pondering, looking into something else. You'd need, among other things:

• You need land/facilities.
• Inspection by the DoJ
• Clearance by the same
• €1,000 range authorisation fee/license
• Insurance
• Range Control Officer (Qualified)
• Range Officer(s)
• Members
• Committee
• Then all the admin stuff that goes with running a range

oldzed

Air rifles are not governed by the range regulations the same as cartridge guns , the range inspector has confirmed this to me on a previous discussion , all you need is section 2 clearance from your super , same as running a clay shoot .

Sparks

oldzed wrote: »

Air rifles are not governed by the range regulations the same as cartridge guns , the range inspector has confirmed this to me on a previous discussion , all you need is section 2 clearance from your super , same as running a clay shoot .

That's both right and wrong and it's missing a lot of context that would let someone coming at it anew figure out exactly what you meant. Just in case someone gets caught out, the practical situation (forgive me if I'm not citing every single law here) is this:

• Every target shooting range in the country requires both planning permission (which is a purely local council affair), and a section 2(5) authorisation from the local Superintendent (which is a purely local Superintendent affair).
• The Range Inspector provides an additional, independent certification under section 4A for ranges saying that they've been inspected and are safe to operate.
• No ranges have specific exemption from the 4A process; but strictly speaking you don't actually need a 4A certificate if the Super will grant a 2(5) authorisation without the 4A certificate.
• However "if" is the operative word there and right now no super will grant a 2(5) without a 4A because the 4A mechanism has a purpose, it's not some bureaucratic oversight, it's a Minister's policy.
• The Range Inspector in some cases (specifically small, indoor, airgun-only ranges like the Pony Club's) has encouraged some Supers to issue the 2(5) without the full trip through the 4A process (the ranges are still examined in every case of this that I know of, mind). He can't order them to do so, his office does not have that legal authority; but he can talk to them about it, that's perfectly above board and proper (he'd be talking to them anyway if they were going down the 4A route).

None of this is new, and in fact all of this was discussed publicly by the Range Inspector at the second public FCP conference, as reported on here, and that was five years ago.

But just because the Range Inspector thinks (rightly) that a full-blown 4A process designed for large ranges like Hilltop or the Midlands doesn't make sense for a one-lane indoor airgun range in a converted hayshed that's used for a month every year by the Pony Club tetrathlon juniors, doesn't mean the law has been rewritten. It's just that there's just enough wiggle room in the law to allow the current state of affairs. Practically speaking, it still requires the Range Inspector to be involved, so safety checks are still being done; but tiny ranges that would otherwise shut down (what farmer is going to drop a few grand bringing his barn up to a code designed for commercial ranges that shoot everything up to .50 cal at a thousand yards, and then another grand on the licence?) and cripple a sport (haven't we seen enough of that already?) are getting some wiggle room.

But (and this bit's for the press reading this ) none of this means you can just stick a target on a tree in your back yard and plink away merrily so public safety is not being compromised.