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Deise Greenway. Cycle path. Waterford City to Dungarvan.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭ beazee
    Registered User


    that there are more than one type of cyclist, I think it could be broadly be divided into two groups (recreational cyclists and sporting cyclists)
    Which group does the everyday commuter belong to? Doing 60+ km per week, at a pace of 25+ km/h, usually sporting his work clothes on?
    which cyclist group has the current proposal been designed for use by?
    for the ones in lycra:
    rectimg201.jpg
    for the ones with kid trailers:
    imgside130.jpg
    for the recreational users:
    http://www.greenway.ie/images/180x150/adsimg105.jpg
    for families:
    http://www.greenway.ie/images/180x150/adsimg108.jpg
    and organised groups:
    renimg147.jpg

    Pics taken from: www.greenway.ie


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭ lertsnim
    Registered User


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Even if they tried the same thing in Ireland odds are it just woudn't be obeyed,

    It's not obeyed. At least on the cycle/walking path between Abbeyside and Clonea strand. The path is clearly marked as walking on one side and cycling on the other but do people take notice of it. Not at all. Cycling on that path can be frustrating at times trying to get walkers to move out of your way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭ Einhard
    Registered User




    Isn't that because you are not using the cycle path safely rather than the cycle path itself not being safe.

    I see nothing wrong in you travelling at 25km plus if you wish to do so when the conditions are right for it. Doing that speed in an urban environment is idiotic and looking for trouble.

    So, lemme get this straight...in your estimation, it's perfectly ok for a person wrapped in several tonnes of metal to be doing 30-100km on a road, but not at all ok for a cyclist to do 25km??

    That's a serious logic fail.

    It's pretty obvious that you have a gripe with cyclists. Not sure why you would get so wound up by them, but maybe a nice relaxing cycle on the new cycle route will help ye relax a bit!! :D:pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,121 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore
    Registered User


    lertsnim wrote: »
    It's not obeyed. At least on the cycle/walking path between Abbeyside and Clonea strand. The path is clearly marked as walking on one side and cycling on the other but do people take notice of it. Not at all. Cycling on that path can be frustrating at times trying to get walkers to move out of your way.

    Unless there's a Guard out to give a slap on the wrist, people in this country don't give 2 flying f**ks about rules, esp. non enforced ones.
    Going to fit the bike with a great big cow bell of a bicycle bell to shoo errant walkers out of the way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭ beazee
    Registered User


    Going to fit the bike with a great big cow bell of a bicycle bell to shoo errant walkers out of the way.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭✭ Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered User


    Einhard wrote: »
    So, lemme get this straight...in your estimation, it's perfectly ok for a person wrapped in several tonnes of metal to be doing 30-100km on a road, but not at all ok for a cyclist to do 25km??

    Rush past my point to your own conclusion, why don't you......

    It's idiotic to attempt to cycle at 25km/h on the current cycle lanes as they are clearly not designed to take it, my point is, if the existing cycle lanes are to be used then it has to be at much slower speeds, to use them safely.
    Einhard wrote: »
    It's pretty obvious that you have a gripe with cyclists. Not sure why you would get so wound up by them, but maybe a nice relaxing cycle on the new cycle route will help ye relax a bit!! :D:pac:

    Not just cyclists, I've a gripe with everybody......:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭ beazee
    Registered User


    It's idiotic to attempt to cycle at 25km/h on the current cycle lanes as they are clearly not designed to take it
    And that's where I choose the road. Because I can.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cabaal
    Ultra Running Mod


    Rush past my point to your own conclusion, why don't you......

    It's idiotic to attempt to cycle at 25km/h on the current cycle lanes as they are clearly not designed to take it, my point is, if the existing cycle lanes are to be used then it has to be at much slower speeds, to use them safely.

    Or,
    As the government and laws allow,
    A cyclist could just not use the cycle lanes at all, this would ensure they could safely complete their journey at their reasonable normal commute speed.

    End of problem! :)

    Anyway, the discussion of shared cycle lanes etc in and around Waterford is very separate to the green way route. The greenway route is specific when it comes to walkers and cyclists and as such it will not encounter many of the safety issues that occur on cycle lanes beside roads.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,472 ✭✭✭ AdMMM
    Registered User


    I think any initiative to encourage cycling should be applauded. I find that cycling is still very foreign in Waterford and drivers simply don't know how to deal with them. With initiatives like this, perhaps more people will take up cycling, get fond of it, and then build up the confidence to cycle to college/work on our roads.

    The more people that are cycling on our roads, the more drivers will learn how to drive safely around cyclists (and vice versa too).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭ JMcL
    Registered User


    This is great news. I did the bit from Abbeyside out to Clonea on the SKT family spin last year with my then 4 year old. It'll be a fantastic facility when complete. Having some experience of cycling on similar Eurovelo routes in France, this will be a great boost for the region, well done to all involved for getting it this far


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  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭✭ deisegreenway
    Registered User


    An update on Greenway progress...the Deise Greenway was recently mentioned in the amalgamated council's strategic plan, covering the next 5 years and interestingly, to also include Tramore.

    As far as we're aware., it's full steam (sorry!) ahead at the end of September/early October with Mount Congreve to be directly accessible from the route.

    More news when we get it...


  • Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭ comeraghs
    Registered User


    Looking forward to the cycleway being fully operational and the planned link to Tramore too. It's going to be great for Waterford City & County.

    https://www.facebook.com/deise.greenway?ref=ts&fref=ts


  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭✭ deisegreenway
    Registered User


    One of the lads recently visited a few greenways in france and from what locals told him, this will transform our area for the better.

    The birds finish nesting in just a few weeks, after which site clearance and construction can get underway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭ Junior
    Registered User


    One of the lads recently visited a few greenways in france and from what locals told him, this will transform our area for the better.

    The birds finish nesting in just a few weeks, after which site clearance and construction can get underway.

    Any idea why the CC has been sitting on development plans for Mountain Biking trails for 3 years or more now ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭✭ deisegreenway
    Registered User


    The recently announced strategic plan was the first time we heard of mountain bike trails in Waterford.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭✭ Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered User


    The recently announced strategic plan was the first time we heard of mountain bike trails in Waterford.

    Those rumblings and roumers have been around for three years now, in fact ever since a similar type of development was proposed by an applicant in Modeligo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭✭ Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered User



    The birds finish nesting in just a few weeks, after which site clearance and construction can get underway.

    Having spoken to some adjacent landowners they are concerned that they have heard nothing since making their submissions, despite assurances that council representatives would meet with all concerned adjacent landowners.


  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ Fate Amenable To Change
    Registered User


    Having spoken to some adjacent landowners they are concerned that they have heard nothing since making their submissions, despite assurances that council representatives would meet with all concerned adjacent landowners.

    What would be their main concerns? Other than access to a green way and more employment/recreation opportunities for the county.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭✭ Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered User


    What would be their main concerns? Other than access to a green way and more employment/recreation opportunities for the county.

    The main concern I have been told about is the 'risk of spread of disease to livestock'. As the old railway line passes through farmland throughout the centre of the county it allows access to farm livestock by anyone who strays from the pathway or any pets they may have.

    Any of the details on show regarding the green way don't show boundary fencing which would prohibit this rouge access, and therefore will not stop the spread of disease from one farm to another. This wasn't a problem when the pathway was used as a railway line as the public were not encouraged to use it for recreational purposes.

    As one farmer pointed out to me, 'it isn't the normal person, but the ignorant ones that cause the problems' he used the analogy that the beaches in the county can be used for walking dogs but they have to be on a leash, every single day you can see dogs on the beaches that are not on leashes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭✭ Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered User


    What would be their main concerns? Other than access to a green way and more employment/recreation opportunities for the county.

    Can you elaborate on the 'more employment' part of the above regurgitated expression please.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,121 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore
    Registered User


    The main concern I have been told about is the 'risk of spread of disease to livestock'. As the old railway line passes through farmland throughout the centre of the county it allows access to farm livestock by anyone who strays from the pathway or any pets they may have.

    Any of the details on show regarding the green way don't show boundary fencing which would prohibit this rouge access, and therefore will not stop the spread of disease from one farm to another. This wasn't a problem when the pathway was used as a railway line as the public were not encouraged to use it for recreational purposes.

    As one farmer pointed out to me, 'it isn't the normal person, but the ignorant ones that cause the problems' he used the analogy that the beaches in the county can be used for walking dogs but they have to be on a leash, every single day you can see dogs on the beaches that are not on leashes.

    A rather lame argument, maybe they should 'take in the roads' to quote Fr Ted, to limit the spread of disease as the public roads frequently bound farmland.
    Likewise, farmers aren't that bothered about fishermen and hunters who, with or without permission, go from farm to farm with what they do.

    With the North Kerry GST, having been on it a few times, I didn't see any people traipsing around adjacent farmland at all. Everyone stuck to the trail.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cabaal
    Ultra Running Mod


    The main concern I have been told about is the 'risk of spread of disease to livestock'. As the old railway line passes through farmland throughout the centre of the county it allows access to farm livestock by anyone who strays from the pathway or any pets they may have.

    Any of the details on show regarding the green way don't show boundary fencing which would prohibit this rouge access, and therefore will not stop the spread of disease from one farm to another. This wasn't a problem when the pathway was used as a railway line as the public were not encouraged to use it for recreational purposes.

    So I'm guessing that due to these concerns farmers are against any new road construction up and down the country for the exact same reasons?

    If inadequate boundary fencing is such a concern then from my own experience alot of farmers are pretty negligent in this regard as they are happy to use barb wire fencing which has massive gaps in it and/or fail to maintain proper fencing at all, this situations allow animals and humans to very easily pass through from public roads and/or other farmer fields.

    I'm also curious what disease are of concern exactly?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭✭ Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered User


    A rather lame argument, maybe they should 'take in the roads' to quote Fr Ted, to limit the spread of disease as the public roads frequently bound farmland.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    So I'm guessing that due to these concerns farmers are against any new road construction up and down the country for the exact same reasons?

    You both seem to be missing the point, if a new road were being put in place the Authorities would sit down with landowners and discuss the new boundaries to be put in place, all this would be agreed before any works would be done.

    Why is that not the case here? The old boundaries for the most part are not fit for the new purpose.
    Likewise, farmers aren't that bothered about fishermen and hunters who, with or without permission, go from farm to farm with what they do.

    That's a rather large brush you are using there, not all farms have rivers and from those that do, not all farmers allow fishing or hunting.
    With the North Kerry GST, having been on it a few times, I didn't see any people traipsing around adjacent farmland at all.Everyone stuck to the trail.

    So we can take it from that that you are stating no one ever trespassed off the North Kerry GST, because you didn't see it when you were there....:rolleyes:
    Cabaal wrote: »
    If inadequate boundary fencing is such a concern then from my own experience alot of farmers are pretty negligent in this regard as they are happy to use barb wire fencing which has massive gaps in it and/or fail to maintain proper fencing at all, this situations allow animals and humans to very easily pass through from public roads and/or other farmer fields.

    I have no doubt that this is happening but I would say that is the exception rather than the rule. If any landowner had that blasé attitude they wouldn't have the concerns I am referring to. I am talking about the responsible landowners who care about protecting their stock.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    I'm also curious what disease are of concern exactly?

    Any disease that can be carried and spread from one animal to another.
    Neosporosis or Sarcocystosis are just 2 that come to mind right away.

    http://www.nfus.org.uk/uploadedFiles/Campaigns/Disease%20in%20Livestock.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers
    Registered User


    spinal column in a bap baguette


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,121 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore
    Registered User


    For your infomation, Mr Rolly eyes, met by chance a farmer who happened to own land right longside the GST close to Newcastle West and he was VERY happy with it, thought it was the best thing to come to the locality. No problems. He totally didn't get the Bull Mccabe-ism/Down with this Sort of Thing that was evident around Listowel direction, orchestrated by a Town Counciller who has 'interests' there I might add.

    Why would anyone WANT to deviate off trail anyway? Maybe kids might, catching collies in a small river or something, but regular walkers, runners and cyclists aren't going to be bothered.

    True not all farmers allow fishing and hunting, maybe not for disease maybe for other reasons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭✭ Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered User


    For your infomation, Mr Rolly eyes, met by chance a farmer who happened to own land right longside the GST close to Newcastle West and he was VERY happy with it, thought it was the best thing to come to the locality. No problems. He totally didn't get the Bull Mccabe-ism/Down with this Sort of Thing that was evident around Listowel direction, orchestrated by a Town Counciller who has 'interests' there I might add.

    Why would anyone WANT to deviate off trail anyway? Maybe kids might, catching collies in a small river or something, but regular walkers, runners and cyclists aren't going to be bothered.

    True not all farmers allow fishing and hunting, maybe not for disease maybe for other reasons.
    I'm not saying it,s a bad thing, it can be a huge resource, but if it's being done, do it right.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cabaal
    Ultra Running Mod


    Why is that not the case here? The old boundaries for the most part are not fit for the new purpose.

    But they are boundaries already in place none the less,

    I'd be curious how many farmers along the old rail line have properly maintained fencing over the decades,

    I'm not saying its the case, but perhaps some farmers may not have maintained proper fencing on the basis that they believed they didn't need to as no person or machine was using the route anymore so it wasn't a big deal if a cow etc go onto the line. Perhaps a person could be annoyed now because they are now required to maintain things again and this costs them money.


    Any disease that can be carried and spread from one animal to another.
    Neosporosis or Sarcocystosis are just 2 that come to mind right away.

    Sarcocystosis? So you want nets over fields then I'm guessing?
    Given birds can have it, also we should restrict deer?

    Neosporosis, so you want to restrict all animals and humans then? Deer etc shouldn't be allowed to move around the Irish countryside...you know, just in case.

    I'm not seeing the issue here, as long as farmers have properly maintained their boundaries this is really a none issue. Its really no different to if a farmer has land bordering a public road.

    As already pointed out the vast majority of people using this route are on the route to use it, they won't be on it to walk across fields. The same can be said for usage of any public road, majority of people are on it to use the road....but of course you'll always get somebody who might wounder into a field for whatever reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭✭ Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered User


    Cabaal wrote: »
    But they are boundaries already in place none the less,

    I'd be curious how many farmers along the old rail line have properly maintained fencing over the decades,

    I'm not saying its the case, but perhaps some farmers may not have maintained proper fencing on the basis that they believed they didn't need to as no person or machine was using the route anymore so it wasn't a big deal if a cow etc go onto the line. Perhaps a person could be annoyed now because they are now required to maintain things again and this costs them money.

    There's a difference between a farmer providing stock proof fencing to keep his/her animals on their own landholding and with providing fencing to keep pets/dogs off their lands.

    The existing fencing on the railway line can not and will not cater for the latter. Remember it is not the farmers/landowners who are introducing a new use for the old railway line here. Whoever is responsible for introducing the change of use of the line should also be responsible for any ancillary works associated with it also, that includes the necessary fencing to control the added risk of spread of disease, simple.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    Sarcocystosis? So you want nets over fields then I'm guessing?
    Given birds can have it, also we should restrict deer?

    Neosporosis, so you want to restrict all animals and humans then? Deer etc shouldn't be allowed to move around the Irish countryside...you know, just in case.

    I think your facetious comments overlook the real issue which is the ADDED risk from the new use of the old railway line, not the current risk from extranuous sources.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    I'm not seeing the issue here,

    Look a little harder, it's there.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    As already pointed out the vast majority of people using this route are on the route to use it, they won't be on it to walk across fields.

    Again, I think you are missing the point, it isn't the people per se, but their furry companions which can be the problem and all it can take is one. If the effort is put in by the authorities now there needen't be that one.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cabaal
    Ultra Running Mod


    There's a difference between a farmer providing stock proof fencing to keep his/her animals on their own landholding and with providing fencing to keep pets/dogs off their lands.

    Indeed there is,

    Yet strangely you'll find most of the fencing used by farmers boarder public roads isn't suitable to keep pets/dogs off their land. Why is that? ;)

    What it sounds like you want is this:
    upload_img_1625_4ede378f9bd3b.jpg

    Yet this is one of the types of fencing I've seen farmers and the council put up, it hasn't a chance of stopping a human or dog. Its especially popular on new roads and improvements to existing roads.

    1906006_d9daf17a.jpg

    Lets not forget that its more common to see this type of barb fencing on more rural roads. They don't stop dogs but they certainly make it more awkward and unsafe for a human to get over them.

    4340132431_65a638b752.jpg

    and if it isn't fencing then its a hedge growth which farmers must maintain by law,


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  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ Smiley Burnett
    Registered User


    lads, ye seem to be forgetting that part of this walk/greenway has operated very successfully for the past number of years in the Dungarvan/Ballinacourty area....There are no issues with trespassing/animal-disease/trespass etc...the new deise greenway will be fantastic...p.s. there are none of these issues in Mayo either, where the FARMERS came together and developed the greenway!!!!


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