Luke Ming Flanagan barred from RTE Election debate?

Demonique

On his Facebook page Mr Flanagan is claiming that RTE are not allowing him to take part in the main debate for for the Midlands Northwest European election constituency on Prime Time this Sunday

https://www.facebook.com/Lukemingflanagan/posts/629488493795137

Godge

Demonique wrote: »

On his Facebook page Mr Flanagan is claiming that RTE are not allowing him to take part in the main debate for for the Midlands Northwest European election constituency on Prime Time this Sunday

https://www.facebook.com/Lukemingflanagan/posts/629488493795137

And the problem with that is?:)

road_high

Demonique wrote: »

On his Facebook page Mr Flanagan is claiming that RTE are not allowing him to take part in the main debate for for the Midlands Northwest European election constituency on Prime Time this Sunday

https://www.facebook.com/Lukemingflanagan/posts/629488493795137

Had a look at that page and is unreal the level of conspiracy theories and general sense of victimhood Ming and his followers display.
RTE are right as they have to have some cut off criteria. Otherwise it just becomes a free for all and nothing will get discussed.
I used to have a little time for Ming as some kind of off-beat radicial but now he really pi!!ing me off. He's anti-anti everything, spreads conpsiracy theories that the EU/Govt instituitions in general are all out to control society and keep everyone down. I never hear him speak about how jobs could be created or solutions to the debt crisis, which these left-wingers always very convienently ignore..

P_1

VB's debate with all the candidates the other day descended into farce but by only having the candidates from the 'establishment' parties on is a bad move from RTE in my eyes. Given the amount of candidates running I would have thought that having the 'establishment' candidates + the top 3 non 'establishment' candidates as per opinion polls might have been a better option.

Phoebas

What's his problem?

Is there a criteria that they normally following that they are changing to exclude him, or is he just complaining that he didn't make the cut under the normal criteria?

RT&#201 wrote: »

I wish to acknowledge your complaint received 12 May in relation to the Prime Debates on the European Elections.

An invitation to participate in these three live debates on Sunday 18, Monday 19 and Tuesday 20 May has been extended to every candidate from the three European constituencies. No candidate has been excluded.

This innovatory structure will see candidates included in the live debates who in previous years, equally fairly but in a different format, would have appeared only in pre-recorded video reports, thereby reflecting impartially and objectively the electoral landscape.

The structure of the debates is fairly and impartially based on RTÉ criteria for election coverage under RTÉ Journalism Guidelines 2012, as well as the BAI Guidelines in Respect of Local and European Elections published on 10 March last and the BAI Code of Fairness, Objectivity and Impartiality in News and Current Affairs under which they are issued.
Given the number of candidates involved it has been necessary to split the debate into two panels. There is no ‘main’ panel or secondary panel. A two-panel approach allows for more informed discussion and allows RTÉ to better manage the discussions and debates.

It will be made clear to viewers on each programme that the allocation of panellists is based on specific criteria to do with past electoral performance and is not an indication of which candidates RTÉ believes are likely to be elected or should be elected.

Neither does the fact that a candidate is sitting on a particular panel indicate that s/he will receive less speaking time within that programme than candidates sitting on another panel.

We have decided that the fairest and most objective way of dividing the panels is as follows: one panel will have all sitting MEPs and one representative each from any party which secured more than 10% of the vote in the last European Elections or the last General Election; the other panel will include all the other candidates.

Where a party which secured more than 10% of the vote in the last European Elections or the last General Election has more than one candidate standing in a constituency, the sitting MEP will be invited to take part in the first panel mentioned above and the other candidate(s) will be invited to take part in the second. Where a party has two sitting MEPs in one constituency, both will be invited to take part in the first-mentioned.

The basis for allocating time to each panel will be the same – consideration will be given to the number of candidates involved and to electoral track records/ levels of public support. In mediating each debate, the presenters will prioritise the need to allow a genuinely informative discussion between the candidates to take place but will also take account of the electoral track record/level of public support of the candidate or party involved.

If any member of the public is of the opinion that a programme or segment of a programme broadcast on RTÉ has breached a provision of Section 39(1)(a), (b), (d) or (e) of the Broadcasting Act 2009 or failed to comply with a provision of the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland Codes and is not satisfied with RTÉ’s response they are entitled to make a complaint to the BAI. Information on codes and on the complaints procedure can be found on the BAI website at http://www.bai.ie/?page_id=115.

LuckyLloyd

Godge wrote: »

And the problem with that is?:)

He has a decent shot at winning the seat and is a sitting TD. To have a debate on the seat concerned without his presence because he doesn't represent a traditional party is a serious ommission by the State broadcaster.

road_high

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He has a decent shot at winning the seat and is a sitting TD. To have a debate on the seat concerned without his presence because he doesn't represent a traditional party is a serious ommission by the State broadcaster.

That would be preferential treatment then over the other so-called "Independents", just because he likes to think of himself as high profile and has blown himself up to be some kind of anti-establishment messiah is no reason to afford him more coverage than others on similar platforms.

SafeSurfer

road_high wrote: »

Had a look at that page and is unreal the level of conspiracy theories and general sense of victimhood Ming and his followers display.
RTE are right as they have to have some cut off criteria. Otherwise it just becomes a free for all and nothing will get discussed.
I used to have a little time for Ming as some kind of off-beat radicial but now he really pi!!ing me off. He's anti-anti everything, spreads conpsiracy theories that the EU/Govt instituitions in general are all out to control society and keep everyone down. I never hear him speak about how jobs could be created or solutions to the debt crisis, which these left-wingers always very convienently ignore..

Privately funded TV3 hosted a debate in which all candidates were invited to participate. Yet publicly funded RTE, the funding of which resulted in over 400 people being imprisoned for not paying a
compulsory TV licence last year, only entertain encumbants and large parties. This is anti democratic.

Road_high, Why are you bothered? You are from Kilkenny, not in his constituency.

Galwayguy35

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He has a decent shot at winning the seat and is a sitting TD. To have a debate on the seat concerned without his presence because he doesn't represent a traditional party is a serious ommission by the State broadcaster.

I disagree, he is popular as a TD because he tells the locals what they want to hear, it's a whole different kettle of fish going forward for the European Parliament.

I think he hasn't a hope of being elected, he might get a decent vote but elected?

I doubt it.

Scofflaw

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Privately funded TV3 hosted a debate in which all candidates were invited to participate. Yet publicly funded RTE, the funding of which resulted in over 400 people being imprisoned for not paying a
compulsory TV licence last year, only entertain encumbants and large parties. This is anti democratic.

Road_high, Why are you bothered? You are from Kilkenny, not in his constituency.

Making it possible that he's disagreeing on principle. Or not so much disagreeing with the idea of having Ming in the debate as disagreeing with Ming's reaction to that.

cordially,
Scofflaw

BQQ

road_high wrote: »

That would be preferential treatment then over the other so-called "Independents", just because he likes to think of himself as high profile and has blown himself up to be some kind of anti-establishment messiah is no reason to afford him more coverage than others on similar platforms.

Marian Harkin is an Independent candidate and is in the main debate with the big parties.
Isn't that preferential treatment over the other so-called "Independents"?

Especially when her seat is under threat from Luke Flanagan who has been lumped in with the no-hopers.

K-9

BQQ wrote: »

Marian Harkin is an Independent candidate and is in the main debate with the big parties.
Isn't that preferential treatment over the other so-called "Independents"?

Especially when her seat is under threat from Luke Flanagan who has been lumped in with the no-hopers.

RTE wrote:

Neither does the fact that a candidate is sitting on a particular panel indicate that s/he will receive less speaking time within that programme than candidates sitting on another panel.

We have decided that the fairest and most objective way of dividing the panels is as follows: one panel will have all sitting MEPs and one representative each from any party which secured more than 10% of the vote in the last European Elections or the last General Election; the other panel will include all the other candidates.

Where a party which secured more than 10% of the vote in the last European Elections or the last General Election has more than one candidate standing in a constituency, the sitting MEP will be invited to take part in the first panel mentioned above and the other candidate(s) will be invited to take part in the second. Where a party has two sitting MEPs in one constituency, both will be invited to take part in the first-mentioned.

Yes, but the "no hopers" will now have more speaking time, rather than a cursory mention or 30 second filler VT piece. Plus based on the above, Byrne would be on the panel, FG have 2 sitting MEP's if I'm correct, and it doesn't make much sense to me for FG to put both both on the one panel.

I'm not sure if SF satisfy the 10% criteria from previous European and General elections. If they don't that would be a criticism for me.

golfball37

K-9 wrote: »

Yes, but the "no hopers" will now have more speaking time, rather than a cursory mention or 30 second filler VT piece. Plus based on the above, Byrne would be on the panel, FG have 2 sitting MEP's if I'm correct, and it doesn't make much sense to me for FG to put both both on the one panel.

I'm not sure if SF satisfy the 10% criteria from previous European and General elections. If they don't that would be a criticism for me.

I think you may be correct, for some reason 9% is the figure I have for them in my head from 5 years ago.

It just copper fastens that RTE is neither fair nor impartial and makes it up as it goes along imo.

K-9

golfball37 wrote: »

I think you may be correct, for some reason 9% is the figure I have for them in my head from 5 years ago.

It just copper fastens that RTE is neither fair nor impartial and makes it up as it goes along imo.

Wiki has them at 11.2% for the last European Elections so looks like they qualify.

Coillte_Bhoy

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I disagree, he is popular as a TD because he tells the locals what they want to hear, it's a whole different kettle of fish going forward for the European Parliament.

I think he hasn't a hope of being elected, he might get a decent vote but elected?

I doubt it.

And what are you basing that detailed analysis on? not eh polls anyway thats for sure

Lockstep

Can't stand the man.

By all accounts he was a brilliant councillor and mayor with a track record of hard work on local issues but it's bad enough when have him in our national legislator when he only seems to care about stuff that can be burned (weed and turf) and has a tendency to comment on the appearance of female politicians (O'Connor, Higgins)

Also, he seems to have a shocking lack of knowledge about the EU and comes across as the sort of dude in the pub banging on about "EU domination" which is actually the slogan on his posters here in the MNW.

Gotta love the tinfoil hat comments on his status as well.

LuckyLloyd

Lockstep wrote: »

Can't stand the man.

Should have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Godge

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He has a decent shot at winning the seat and is a sitting TD. To have a debate on the seat concerned without his presence because he doesn't represent a traditional party is a serious ommission by the State broadcaster.

He is just using a reasonable objective policy implemented by RTE to ensure that the debates don't descend into disaster as a way to create more publicity for himself.

The man is all soundbite, no substance.

raymon

Ming should speak in the debate

He is the fourth most popular candidate on same odds as Pat the cope and the more likely to get a seat than the dreadful Thomas Byrne. (according to Paddy Power)

I am not a fan of what parish pump talk Ming has to say , but as one of the 5 most popular candidates he should talk !

Scofflaw

raymon wrote: »

Ming should speak in the debate

He is the fourth most popular candidate on same odds as Pat the cope and the more likely to get a seat than the dreadful Thomas Byrne. (according to Paddy Power)

I am not a fan of what parish pump talk Ming has to say , but as one of the 5 most popular candidates he should talk !

That a candidate is "popular" is not an objective measure. It's a judgement, and somebody has to make it based on their feeling as to whether the candidate is actually 'popular', or a flash in the pan, or gaming the system.

As to the idea that we can use betting odds to determine popularity...no. Just...no. It should be completely obvious why that's wrong.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Loafing Oaf

raymon wrote: »

Ming should speak in the debate

He is the fourth most popular candidate on same odds as Pat the cope and the more likely to get a seat than the dreadful Thomas Byrne. (according to Paddy Power)

I am not a fan of what parish pump talk Ming has to say , but as one of the 5 most popular candidates he should talk !

But almost any of the candidates could make some sort of case why they should be included: Lrraine Higgins could point out that she represents the country's second-largest party even though she is clearly a no-hoper. It's a difficult call for RTE: perhaps they could have 2 or even 3 debates with the same questions one after the other, although this probably wouldn't be a ratings winner...

raymon

Scofflaw wrote: »

That a candidate is "popular" is not an objective measure. It's a judgement, and somebody has to make it based on their feeling as to whether the candidate is actually 'popular', or a flash in the pan, or gaming the system.

As to the idea that we can use betting odds to determine popularity...no. Just...no. It should be completely obvious why that's wrong.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Of course the betting odds from a Paddy Power website are a bad metric. So is perceived popularity .

But RTE's "sitting MEP or party that got 10% or higher " is far worse. This means that only established candidates or parties have a chance of being heard. This does not reflect the shift towards new independents.

The Vincent Brown "debates" were complete chaos so far. But they did give a good insight into how the candidates answer questions under pressure.

Again - I dont agree with Ming on anything really - but he shouldnt be excluded.

John_C

Whatever about anything else, this claim from RTE is clearly untrue:

RTE wrote:

There is no ‘main’ panel

downonthefarm

We need ming in Europe to be the voice of reason

ArmaniJeanss

If RTEs qualification rules don't include 'sitting TD' then quite simply their criteria are wrong.


(Like many I've no time for MFs politics).

road_high

downonthefarm wrote: »

We need ming in Europe to be the voice of reason

Ming would be a meaningless voice in Europe. I doubt he'll be part of any of the main political groupings so therefore akin to a needle in a haystack.
LOL to the claims he "will stand up for Ireland" against those nasty EU-crats that give us billions of euro. Ming is just another easy anti-everything brigade candidate.

Hunchback

Hmmmm, i wonder actually which party he would align with in the European Parliament? Interesting...... has he commented on this?

road_high

CKonetheonlyone wrote: »

Hmmmm, i wonder actually which party he would align with in the European Parliament? Interesting...... has he commented on this?

Some obscure left-wing one I'd imagine :rolleyes:.

Anyhow, according the Irish Independent poll today he is on course to win a seat;http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/opinion-polls/flanagan-on-course-to-win-seat-as-martin-faces-key-test-30281382.html

They do seem to like their Independents up west. Probably get slated for saying this, but does it play to the general sense of victimhood among the electorate vs those nasty grab-alls in Dublin/east coast? Especially in Donegal where I'd say Ming along with SF are going down a storm.

bumper234

downonthefarm wrote: »

We need ming in Europe to be the voice of reason

Yeah




Ming





The voice of reason representing the Irish people in Europe




:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

SafeSurfer

The RTE criteria is clearly unfair and favours political parties. Ming received 18% of the vote in the last general election and gets excluded from the top tier. A party candidate who received a handful of votes but whose party received 10% nationally in the last GE gets top billing. It is unfair.

SafeSurfer

road_high wrote: »

Some obscure left-wing one I'd imagine :rolleyes:.

Anyhow, according the Irish Independent poll today he is on course to win a seat;http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/opinion-polls/flanagan-on-course-to-win-seat-as-martin-faces-key-test-30281382.html

They do seem to like their Independents up west. Probably get slated for saying this, but does it play to the general sense of victimhood among the electorate vs those nasty grab-alls in Dublin/east coast? Especially in Donegal where I'd say Ming along with SF are going down a storm.

Victimhood? The constituency with the highest percentage Fine Gael vote in the last general election is in the west. The east coast has more Independent/ socialist TDs than the west also. Unfortunately the east coast doesn't have a monopoly on voting for a party because ones parents and grandparents voted for that party in the past.

K-9

road_high wrote: »

Some obscure left-wing one I'd imagine :rolleyes:.

Anyhow, according the Irish Independent poll today he is on course to win a seat;http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/opinion-polls/flanagan-on-course-to-win-seat-as-martin-faces-key-test-30281382.html

They do seem to like their Independents up west. Probably get slated for saying this, but does it play to the general sense of victimhood among the electorate vs those nasty grab-alls in Dublin/east coast? Especially in Donegal where I'd say Ming along with SF are going down a storm.

Name recognition seems to be a big thing going back to the 80's and Neil Blaney. SF is doing well everywhere so I don't see how relevant that is. Ming is getting the type of votes the Socialist candidates would get in Dublin so little difference.

Ireland South is the outlier in the country. No strong independent voice and about 50% of the vote is going to Crowley and Kelly for reasons that escape me.

Lockstep

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Victimhood? The constituency with the highest percentage Fine Gael vote in the last general election is in the west. The east coast has more Independent/ socialist TDs than the west also. Unfortunately the east coast doesn't have a monopoly on voting for a party because ones parents and grandparents voted for that party in the past.

It's a weird one alright. The west loves complaining about Them Boys Up in Dublin but will vehemently defend Kenny as he's from Mayo, along with the overrepresentation of rural areas compared to Dublin.

It's sorta like the West's love/hate relationship with the EU. They love giving out about the EU but benefit hugely from subsidies to farmers and regional development grants.

Bongalongherb

It's going to be one funny tsunami effect drowning out Labour and FG on the 23rd. Burn labour to the stake. It's akin to that song from fleetwood mac..Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies, tell me lies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiGjxxytLy8

Lockstep

I'd happily vote for him for a councillor or a directly elected mayor position but given how narrow his policy interests are and how he'll be an independent, I'm not sure exactly what he hopes to do in the EP.

John_C

Lockstep wrote: »

I'd happily vote for him for a councillor or a directly elected mayor position but given how narrow his policy interests are and how he'll be an independent, I'm not sure exactly what he hopes to do in the EP.

People said the same when he ran for the Dáil but he's managed to expose a whole lot of wrongdoing in an area the party TDs wouldn't touch.

mikom

Lockstep wrote: »

The west loves complaining about Them Boys Up in Dublin but will vehemently defend Kenny as he's from Mayo,

I hate him............ I'm from the west.

snubbleste

If Ming gets elected..will this prompt a by election in Roscommon or can he forfeit the EP seat to his secondment?

Lockstep

John_C wrote: »

People said the same when he ran for the Dáil but he's managed to expose a whole lot of wrongdoing in an area the party TDs wouldn't touch.

Huge difference between how the Dáil works and how the EP works. It's a lot less parochial and less friendly to independents.

ressem

Lockstep wrote: »

Huge difference between how the Dáil works and how the EP works. It's a lot less parochial and less friendly to independents.

Can't really see him joining the EFD group (european freedom and democracy; alongside UKIP), even though his press releases fit pretty well with their charter.
http://www.efdgroup.eu/about-us/who-we-are/charter.html

Deputy Flanagan's Oireachtas contributions would be a lot more balanced than much of their stuff.

The ECR group (european conservatives and reformists. ) and United Left/Nordic Green Left seem more unlikely.

And the 'grand coalition' of the EPP (FG et all) and S&D (labours) have made it difficult to create new groups. Minimum of 25 members from 7 countries who have to be judged to be sufficiently politically aligned to qualify.

According to the economist, their view suggests that numbers of non-aligned independents will increase from 27 to 95.
So it's possible that they'll chop and change groups.

irs

Whether people like it or not Ming is in with a good chance of being elected and any debate without him has no credibility not that it would have much with him in it either. A lot of the comments here trying to justify him not being there have exactly the kind of mindset that leads to so many people supporting him in the first place. He might be an idiot but he couldn't be any worse than the Labour candidate who has been dreadful or Eamonn Coghlan and it's not like FF are intellectual heavyweights either. I suspect if SF were excluded it would also be defended. I'm not sure how exactly how they would fit everybody in or do this type of thing properly but some FFFGL circlejerk isn't worth any attention.

LuckyLloyd

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I disagree, he is popular as a TD because he tells the locals what they want to hear, it's a whole different kettle of fish going forward for the European Parliament.

I think he hasn't a hope of being elected, he might get a decent vote but elected?

I doubt it.

Exit poll has him at 20%.

snubbleste

Ming on course to top the poll.
Bye-election in Roscommon..

Conmaicne Mara

Lockstep wrote: »

It's a weird one alright. The west loves complaining about Them Boys Up in Dublin but will vehemently defend Kenny as he's from Mayo, along with the overrepresentation of rural areas compared to Dublin.

It's sorta like the West's love/hate relationship with the EU. They love giving out about the EU but benefit hugely from subsidies to farmers and regional development grants.

Rubbish.

Voted 1,2,3,4 FG last GE, absolutely disgusted with EK.

I'm a (small is the wrong word, there are lots of small farmers) less well off farmer, and I like being part of the EU. Just prefer how Ming described it before as a trading block rather than one political entity. Would not want to leave, nor do I want LDC's given to CC's as they'll fcuk them up.

Surprised you don't know by now generalisations never work out.

Harry Angstrom

I'm going to miss Ming from The Dail. Hopefully he'll be back for the 2016 General Election.

Scofflaw

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Rubbish.

Voted 1,2,3,4 FG last GE, absolutely disgusted with EK.

I'm a (small is the wrong word, there are lots of small farmers) less well off farmer, and I like being part of the EU. Just prefer how Ming described it before as a trading block rather than one political entity.

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes Ming to realise that that's still basically what it is. EP experience will assist him there.

amused,
Scofflaw

Conmaicne Mara

Scofflaw wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes Ming to realise that that's still basically what it is. EP experience will assist him there.

amused,
Scofflaw

Think the point he was making was an easier ability for countries within the block to trade with each other.

Rather than some of the invasive directives leading to the closures of local rural businesses and the smothering of others.

I have sympathy with that and seen it happen here. Also internally in this country how lopsided directives are implemented are hurting certain parts of the country more than others.

carpejugulum

downonthefarm wrote: »

We need ming in Europe to be the voice of reason

Only the first part possible though

Scofflaw

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Think the point he was making was an easier ability for countries within the block to trade with each other.

Rather than some of the invasive directives leading to the closures of local rural businesses and the smothering of others.

I have sympathy with that and seen it happen here. Also internally in this country how lopsided directives are implemented are hurting certain parts of the country more than others.

I think that last is more about lopsided development of the country. But I'm afraid most of the directives you're likely referring to here are the results of the trading arrangements. Across-the-board free trade arrangements are by their nature highly intrusive.

Ming's specific beef is with environmental/scientific conservation directives, somewhere I have zero sympathy with his position, which I consider as well to be both self-serving and dishonestly presented.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Conmaicne Mara

Scofflaw wrote: »

I think that last is more about lopsided development of the country. But I'm afraid most of the directives you're likely referring to here are the results of the trading arrangements. Across-the-board free trade arrangements are by their nature highly intrusive.

Ming's specific beef is with environmental/scientific conservation directives, somewhere I have zero sympathy with his position, which I consider as well to be both self-serving and dishonestly presented.

cordially,
Scofflaw

What politician doesn't have a self serving agenda? Their agenda is to become elected.

Ming represents my views quite well in his exchanges with Enda Kenny in last weeks (I think) leaders questions.

snubbleste

snubbleste last week wrote:

If Ming gets elected..will this prompt a by election in Roscommon or can he forfeit the EP seat to his secondment?

Can anyone clarify this?