Car sticking out of driveway. Is it ok?

goz83

OK, so i live in a typical Dublin suburb. We have 2 cars (zafira and mondeo). Up until 2 weeks ago, it was a zafira and fto and both cars fit easily into garden. Now, when both cars are parked right up to the front door and are bumper to to bumper, the tail end or nose end of either car is jutting out of the garden. The wheels are in the garden (if that makes any difference). This causes no obstruction to pedestrians at all. Is this illegal?

This only came to my attention the other day when i noticed a few cars unnecessarily parked with the tail or nose end out of the garden to prevent the installation of the water meters presumably, because most of these cars had ample space to park fully inside the garden. Often both our cars are just parked up and nobody is home, or I am out the back working, so would not hear the bell ring if someone needed my car moved to dig up the path.

I know its illegal to park on the footpath, but technically I see it that both cars are parked in the drive, with all 8 boots in the garden and the part jutting just over a foot outside is not touching the footpath, or causing obstruction to passers by. I park on the road (legally) when possible, but mostly the spots are taken by neighbours and visitors.

Any thoughts?

Stheno

I assume you mean eight wheels?

Anyway the acid test for me with this, is if is impeding somebody with a pushchair/buggy/pram being able to get past without having to go off the footpath onto the road.

Same with wheelchairs

Cerco

Stheno wrote: »

I assume you mean eight wheels?

Anyway the acid test for me with this, is if is impeding somebody with a pushchair/buggy/pram being able to get past without having to go off the footpath onto the road.

Same with wheelchairs

Same for blind people.

punisher5112

Hi op a picture may help with your question.

As said above it could be a problem if obstructing.

If the footpath is a very big one it should be fine but technically illegal and could cause you to get a ticket, very unlikely but still you just never know.

Is there space available as to maybe widen the drive as this is something I done and was able to fit 6 cars in where only one would fit before, now saying that my sisters all drive now and with their parking effort its difficult for 2 cars to be parked in the drive....

goz83

You could easily fit a wheel chair and a buggy side by side passing by. And thats before going onto the sloping part of the path leading to the drive way.

I just dont want any hassle, especially if those water meter installers are knocking when i am not home, or not able to hear them. I heard they aren't leaving notice letters anymore.

Supergurrier

Its a sign you should have kept the fto

goz83

Supergurrier wrote: »

Its a sign you should have kept the fto

Its currently badly damaged as a result of a rear end collision. When fixed, it will be going into storage

doolox

I have heard of people ticketed when the cars were sticking out of gateways but not fully out. Real tape measure stuff.

No problems on my part with South Dublin cc, DLR cc of Fingal cc the wardens of which I often use as guides to where things are on my travels and the best places to park when getting gear into gigs for a few minutes......and I mean a FEW MINUTES.

While the job of traffic warden is never easy some are OK and some are......not.

Watch the private clampers in the likes of Clondalkin etc.

goz83

Its not a clamping road or anything. I'm based in Dublin 13. There are no clamping signs and never have been around the area. Its also not a through road, its more of a long cul de sac. I just want to make sure that my car cant be towed away for sticking its arse out of the garden if those water meter guys cant get me or the oh to move the car. Otherwise, i wouldn't be worried in the slightest, as the car is not an obstruction unless you want to dig up the ground outside my driveway. The access point is only centimetres outside the garden. Most of the water access points are not outside driveways, but are to the side, in front of the garden walls. I would leave the car outside on the road, but parking is normally not possible, as the spots are mostly taken.

listermint

Just park a tank over your Water Point OP. Job Done

visual

It doesn't matter if the wheels are inside or out side you garden car the lenght is from bumper to bumper.

So while no one cares about it taking up some foot path space your not entitled to.

Inbox

I would worry that it's more likely to be keyed if it's sticking out.

slimjimmc

goz83 wrote: »

OK, so i live in a typical Dublin suburb. We have 2 cars (zafira and mondeo). Up until 2 weeks ago, it was a zafira and fto and both cars fit easily into garden. Now, when both cars are parked right up to the front door and are bumper to to bumper, the tail end or nose end of either car is jutting out of the garden. The wheels are in the garden (if that makes any difference). This causes no obstruction to pedestrians at all. Is this illegal?

This only came to my attention the other day when i noticed a few cars unnecessarily parked with the tail or nose end out of the garden to prevent the installation of the water meters presumably, because most of these cars had ample space to park fully inside the garden. Often both our cars are just parked up and nobody is home, or I am out the back working, so would not hear the bell ring if someone needed my car moved to dig up the path.

I know its illegal to park on the footpath, but technically I see it that both cars are parked in the drive, with all 8 boots in the garden and the part jutting just over a foot outside is not touching the footpath, or causing obstruction to passers by. I park on the road (legally) when possible, but mostly the spots are taken by neighbours and visitors.

Any thoughts?

I'd be fairly certain the answer is Yes, you are still technically occupying part of the footpath, think in terms of the space car occupies not where the tyres are touching. Whether you get any hassle over it is anyone's guess but I wouldn't like to leave like that long term. You probably should consider surfacing some of your garden to accommodate both cars inside your boundary.

goz83

So, there is no definitive answer then. My own view is that the vehicle is not parked on the footpath, even if part of it is leaning out over (not on) the footpath. Access is not restricted for passers by.

I do understand some of the views above, but I am looking for a clear answer. My driveway has no grass and there is no way to park the cars any other way without first demolishing a small raised pond at the top of the garden. Even if I did that, i don't think either vehicle could be parked in that area due to the angle of entry. Only a small sports coupe or similar could get in there, which was the way it worked up until a couple of weeks ago.

visual

You ignored the definitive answers and chosen your own interpretation that suits.

It is illegal parked 100%
Chances of getting into trouble probably zero but there is no way possible to claim its legally parked and your within your rights to block part of a public pathway even if you consider there is ample space for prams wheelchairs etc...

djimi

goz83 wrote: »

So, there is no definitive answer then. My own view is that the vehicle is not parked on the footpath, even if part of it is leaning out over (not on) the footpath. Access is not restricted for passers by.

There is no grey area; if any part of your car is parked on or over the footpath then you are parked illegally. It doesnt matter where the car is actually touching the ground.

Whether it would lead to anything is anyones guess; probably not, but you never know.

Its not a smart idea to leave your car parked jutting out over a footpath, as kids on bicycles etc dont tend to have the best control and you are asking to come out some time to find a large scratch/dent in your body work.

goz83

punisher5112 wrote: »

As said above it could be a problem if obstructing.

If the footpath is a very big one it should be fine but technically illegal and could cause you to get a ticket, very unlikely but still you just never know.

...

Not definitive.

doolox wrote: »

I have heard of people ticketed when the cars were sticking out of gateways but not fully out. Real tape measure stuff.

Hear say

visual wrote: »

It doesn't matter if the wheels are inside or out side you garden car the lenght is from bumper to bumper.

So while no one cares about it taking up some foot path space your not entitled to.

Is this definitive? Show me the regulation.

slimjimmc wrote: »

I'd be fairly certain the answer is Yes, you are still technically occupying part of the footpath, think in terms of the space car occupies not where the tyres are touching.

Again, not clear and while valid, it is still just a guess.

visual wrote: »

You ignored the definitive answers and chosen your own interpretation that suits.

It is illegal parked 100%
Chances of getting into trouble probably zero but there is no way possible to claim its legally parked and your within your rights to block part of a public pathway even if you consider there is ample space for prams wheelchairs etc...

I gave my view on it. I have not ignored anything, to choose what suits me. I am looking for something in legislation. Some clear cut rule to say if it is illegal, or not. So far, its grey. If you can point me toward the proof of your claim, please do.

goz83

djimi wrote: »

There is no grey area; if any part of your car is parked on or over the footpath then you are parked illegally. It doesnt matter where the car is actually touching the ground.

Whether it would lead to anything is anyones guess; probably not, but you never know.

Its not a smart idea to leave your car parked jutting out over a footpath, as kids on bicycles etc dont tend to have the best control and you are asking to come out some time to find a large scratch/dent in your body work.

Where is this written? I should have been clearer in the op. My understanding of parking on something is to have at lease one tyre parked on that something. For example: if i am not supposed to park on the grass and all the tyres are on the concrete, with the nose of the vehicle hanging 2-3 feet over the grass area, i am not parked on the grass. It may seem like splitting hairs, but i think its valid.

The car is not causing obstruction, but i take on board your point about kids. For what its worth, my car is tucked in much more than many others on the road, which are actually parked on the path by my definition.

challengemaster

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a36 wrote:

Prohibitions on Parking
36. (1) Save as otherwise provided for in these Regulations and subject to article 5, a vehicle shall not be parked on a public road at a location, in a manner or for a purpose referred to in this article.

(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—

( a ) on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 008 [double yellow lines] has been provided;
( b ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 019 [No Parking sign] has been provided, during the period indicated on the information plate accompanying such traffic sign;
( c ) within 5 metres of a road junction;
( d ) on a section of roadway with less than 3 traffic lanes and where traffic sign number RRM 001 [continuous white line] has been provided;
( e ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 020, in association with RRM 029 [appointed stand], has been placed to indicate that an appointed stand has been provided;
( f ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing, delaying or interfering with the entrance to or exit from a fire brigade station, an ambulance station or a Garda station;
( g ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing an entrance or an exit for vehicles to or from a premises, save with the consent of the occupier of such premises;
( h ) within 15 metres (on the approach side) or 5 metres (on the side other than the approach side) of a section of roadway where any of the following traffic signs have been provided—
(i) traffic sign number RPC 001 [Pedestrian Crossing];
(ii) traffic sign number RPC 002 [Pedestrian Crossing Complex]; or
(iii) traffic sign numbers RTS 00I, RTS 002, RTS 003 or RTS 004 [traffic lights];
( i ) on a footway, a grass margin or a median strip;
( j ) on a part of a roadway which is a casual trading area, during hours of trading, unless the vehicle is for the time being in use for the purposes of casual trading;
( k ) in a manner in which it will interfere with the normal flow of traffic or which obstructs or endangers other traffic;
( l ) where traffic sign RUS 031 [bus stop] or RRM 030 [stopping place or stand] has been provided unless the vehicle is an omnibus.

While this specific legislation does not state what "parking" is defined as, I looked a bit further back in time, where it IS defined in Bye-laws.

DUBLIN TRAFFIC (PARKING AND WAITING) BYE-LAWS, 1937. wrote:

the word " park " when used as a verb means to keep or leave a vehicle (whether in charge or not in charge of any person) stationary in a place which is a parking place by virtue of these bye-laws,

Position of vehicles in parking places
5.—(1) For the purposes of these bye-laws, a vehicle shall not be deemed to be parked in a parking place unless the whole of such vehicle is within the limits of such parking place as stated in the third column of the relevant Schedule to these bye-laws and, in particular, no part of such vehicle projects into a space at a street junction which is deemed by these bye-laws to be excluded from such parking place.

And while this is just Bye-laws referring to parking spaces, the every different towns bye-laws seem to be copied/pasted - and as such, are the same. There definitely seems to be grounds there to form the opinion that it's not parked within your own property.

This would imply that it is illegal.

goz83

Thanks challengemaster. Thats exactly what i needed to see. Fair play mate.