Critique my shop (pics inside)

Cianos

Hi folks,
Some of you might remember me posting before about opening up The Website Shop, a pop up shop we set up in Dun Laoghaire which got off the ground due in part to the help I got on this board.

In late October we moved in to a more permanent place in Harold's Cross and have been slowly improving on the shop.

Since you can get tunnel vision when working closely on something I wanted to post here to get some honest (don't hold back!) feedback on the shop - How does it look? would you come in? Would you know what we do? And so on.

We've got a very good location traffic wise, we're on Harold's Cross bridge which apparently is the 2nd busiest bridge in the city. The problem is it's one of those junctions you just want to drive through, and there's no obvious place for parking.

Here are the pictures:

This is a shot of the outside of the shop from across the road. The rubbish bins are an ongoing problem, they're mostly from the apartments above the shops. I've contacted local councillors and there hasn't been any improvement.



Here you can see the counter and the stools. We want the stools to help give the impression that you can pop in for a casual chat. We feel people might be a bit intimidated to come in to a shop they're not familiar with the concept of so we're trying to make it more inviting.



This is our counter which was installed recently. The guys who built it did a great job. The idea of the counter is to allow for a quick chat about the person's requirements (hence the wide surfaces at the sides to make it easy for putting the laptop up on to) without the necessity of sitting down at the table pictured below.



Here you can see our back wall and the consultation table. The consultation table is for when an appointment is made, or for those longer discussions.



I welcome your harsh and unfiltered criticisms!

Thanks

amdublin

Looks good to me!

Do you design websites?

Peterdalkey

Hi Cian

Looks really tidy, clean and sharp.

My observations:

Outside signage is too weak/soft... needs stronger impact.

"Website" and " retail shop" are not an obvious or normal mental associations , so some window advertising saying exactly what it is you do, special offers etc will make it easier for an interested punter to venture in, not fearing asking a stupid question!! . Would also work for you when you are closed!!

Cheers

Peter

Mrs W

It looks great and I love your thinking behind the counter and stools etc.

It looks a bit unfinished to me though, above the door is mostly grey with only a bit of small writing and the MDF look counter would make me think it's not open yet?

Best of luck with it

Graham

Hi Cianos,

I've seen pictures of your shop before as I've followed your progress but it's only now you've asked the specific question that I've stopped to think about the appearance.

From the outside, it does look fairly cold and uninviting. It actually reminds me of one of the art galleries/studios in Temple Bar. It would be very easy to mistake the battleship grey for undercoat and presume the shop hadn't been finished yet. The signage could also reinforce the unfinished feeling.

Talking about the signage, if you removed 'The Website Shop' from the window, you'd have absolutely no clue what products/services you were offering. My closest guess would be a dry-cleaners.

I don't like the wood chip counter or the stools, they just add to the unfinished look but that may just be a personal taste thing. Personally I'd have gone for a couple of 2 seater sofas and a coffee table.

The frustrating thing is I can't think of anything useful to suggest. I'm not sure how you would go about making the shop more inviting/less intimidating or how you would convey your products and services.

Monitors in the windows displaying past projects? New signage. Brighter coloured paint? Cards displaying past projects or product offerings, perhaps presented in the same was an estate agent would?

MidlandsM

I like your idea!

+1 re; the mdf, whilst it looks cool, it looks unfinsihed......maybe a lick of white paint to tone it down and blend in.

Still, good idea.

How about a pole and a near naked dancer in the window...........bound to get some "eyeball" on your shop then.......LOL (kiddin)

good luck with your venture.

Peterdalkey

Might be an idea to have 6 or 8 flat screen monitors viewable from outside to give a nice "techy" feel!

Your rough particle board is not getting much love, Paint it funky pink or lime or purple with Annie Sloan Chalk paint and the stools in a contrasting colour.. the more outrageous the better!!

Oink

I agree that it looks good. I have some ideas - take them with a pinch of salt for I know not of what I speak. I'm not a designer or anything, just a punter.


From the outside:
- As you said yourself: A lot of traffic, but stopping is not that easy. So you shop window needs to invite people to contact you. I did contact you before, so it’s obviously not that bad!
- I would add “.IE” on a 4th line, in the window. It is written above, but not very big. I couldn’t see it in the picture, and I tried “.com”. Can you make the phone number more visible?
- You have a big empty grey space above the shop which is under-utilized. It looks very neat and elegant and all, but it could work more for you.
- Now for a classy touch that no one else bothers with: Rent a high pressure Karcher-type machine, and clean the footpath outside the shop. Hardly anyone else does it in Ireland. It will show you mean business, and people will notice.

Inside:
- You could use some more plants, within reason, well-chosen, and well- placed. How about on the right-hand side in the window. I'm thinking something tall and classy that doesn't take too much floor space.
- How about a (classy, well-chosen) dash of colour: Maybe some brochures on the counter??

I hope this helps. Also, best of luck with the shop!

DubTony

Tough location. There have been dozens of businesses in those shops in the past 30 years (except Delaneys, who's been there since Brian Boru was kicking Viking arse). Although I've said it for years that the location is only any good for specialist retailers, so that's a plus I suppose.
The thing about specialist retail though, is that the shop is basically a big billboard with a door. It needs to be treated like that. Like Delaneys next door, people don't just drop in, they go when they need a bike. People need to see your ad and check out your product/service later on. Your "shop front" is literally your shop front (or vice-versa )

Signage doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Due to the pole, electricity box, and bikes, and line of sight being blocked by cars in front, traffic coming over the bridge from town can't see the window until it's almost through the junction, and it's tough to do a double take coming off Harold's Cross bridge. I'd fill the overhead sign with the store name, and use the window on the left to show examples of your work (on screens or maybe something more static like this).
As Peter said, retail and web site design don't normally go hand in hand, making the business unique. Unique retail needs a strong driver. For your business I don't know what that is, but while it's obvious that your business has something to do with web sites, traffic passing has no way of knowing what you do. I'd use the window on the right to tell them that "We Build Websites". At least that will get some attention.

Finally I'd have no qualms about putting a call to action in that window. Make it smart and maybe even funny.
How about "Click Here to discuss your needs" with an arrow (cursor?) pointing to the door?

wytch

Hi,

I drive by there a couple of times each week and never noticed you. I could possibly be in the market for your type of services, meaning that I really had no idea you were there. Inside the shop looks good to me.

The outside of the shop is very bad from the point of advertising your wares. At a quick first glance (from your pics) I thought you were a coffee place.

That bridge is a messy bridge traffic wise. Lane changes are a mess, I am always watching the traffic very carefully as I am crossing. You have a lot of smart-asses skipping lanes to avoid queuing like us civilised folk. I am say this to point out that I think you need something really 'flashy'/ 'blinky' attention grabbing.

I noticed recently directly opposite Crips shoe shop in Terenure a new flashy LCD type advertisement for Ken Dohertys snooker academy. I believe it is there years but I never knew about it either. I know about it now because of his new flashy sign.

Now that I know you are there, I will pop in for a consultation.

galwayjohn89

I'd agree with the counter, it looks unfinished to me. Also, wouldn't be made keen on the general colour scheme. The first thing I looked at on the photo was the barbers due to the colour -although the barbers does look a bit run down. The photo of your shop in the dark on your site doors look very stylish.

On another note, I'll probably be in touch with you for a new website design I'll be looking for in after I am back from my holidays!

scwazrh

Who made the counter for you?

ifah

Hey Cianos - I popped into the pop-up shop in Dun Laoghaire so am delighted you took the next step.

I agree with the others - the signage is too neutral, from outside looking in the shop looks unfinished due to the counter and you're not advertising or showcasing anything you do.

If it was me i'd change a few things to show how you operate.

- Counter is a good idea - why not use it to advertise how you will work ?
- I'd do up a simple graphic story board and use it to display you and a client building a website ..... print in a high res posters and wrap the front of the counter in it.

- I'm not sure about introducing flat screens - if you want techy - just use some light projectors to use the pavement or your walls to advertise - simplest, but most effective use of these i've seen is the pathway lights in IKEA - the just use simple arrows to point your way.

good luck with it.

NormalBob Ubiquitypants

Pass this place on the bus. The only reason I have noticed it is because of the bright coloured shop Miss World next door. Maybe the frontage could change? I like the inside though. Best of luck.

DesperateDan

DubTony wrote: »

Tough location. There have been dozens of businesses in those shops in the past 30 years (except Delaneys, who's been there since Brian Boru was kicking Viking arse). Although I've said it for years that the location is only any good for specialist retailers, so that's a plus I suppose.
The thing about specialist retail though, is that the shop is basically a big billboard with a door. It needs to be treated like that. Like Delaneys next door, people don't just drop in, they go when they need a bike. People need to see your ad and check out your product/service later on. Your "shop front" is literally your shop front (or vice-versa )

Signage doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Due to the pole, electricity box, and bikes, and line of sight being blocked by cars in front, traffic coming over the bridge from town can't see the window until it's almost through the junction, and it's tough to do a double take coming off Harold's Cross bridge. I'd fill the overhead sign with the store name, and use the window on the left to show examples of your work (on screens or maybe something more static like this).
As Peter said, retail and web site design don't normally go hand in hand, making the business unique. Unique retail needs a strong driver. For your business I don't know what that is, but while it's obvious that your business has something to do with web sites, traffic passing has no way of knowing what you do. I'd use the window on the right to tell them that "We Build Websites". At least that will get some attention.

Finally I'd have no qualms about putting a call to action in that window. Make it smart and maybe even funny.
How about "Click Here to discuss your needs" with an arrow (cursor?) pointing to the door?

This guy talks sense :pac:

jimmii

I love that click here with an arrow to the door idea thats brilliant!

Definitely take advantage of the unused space above the window. We are in a similar spot with a lot of traffic going by and have the letters in bright red writing we often have people coming in saying they have driven by the shop lots of times and have come in off the back of that. Its free advertising space for you so you may as well use it! Adding a screen with examples of work is definitely worth doing as it will pull the attention of people walking past. I like the desk but in a shop it does look like its being fit still.

hfallada

I know the look you are trying to achieve. But for Irish people there is a fine line between it and a place looking unfinished. Have you looked at what some people would call "hipster" places( I hate that term). Like Bunsen burger or any of the new cafes in Dublin city. They have a very similar look to yours.

Most Irish people prefer the normal office look. Which is a €5 sq yard generic blue carpet, white walls and some horrible 1980s desks. Your look is refreshing. Maybe have a neon WS to draw attention. Bunsen burgers is very effective

MagicMarker

I'd agree with others in that it doesn't look finished, I think I'd pass you by thinking you weren't open for business.

Is there a reason why you haven't utilised the boarding above the windows? I'd be sticking "The Website Shop" on there where it's more noticeable, and maybe stick a flatscreen in the window instead showing samples of your work/display offers etc.

I'd also opt for a more inviting colour scheme. You're supposed to be designing me a website remember? Show me how creative you are! If your shop looks dull then why would I think the website would be any better?

was.deevey

Finally I'd have no qualms about putting a call to action in that window. Make it smart and maybe even funny.
How about "Click Here to discuss your needs" with an arrow (cursor?) pointing to the door?

I'd almost think of somehow making the entire shopfront appear to be a website before they get in the door outside e.g. sidebars, content areas, call to action, address bar above the door etc ...

Make people automatically think website when they look at it.

Atomico

Like I mentioned last time I was down, definitely need to fill up some window space with some call to actions and highlights around what is on offer and why someone should pop in At the minute it just looks like a temporary space or art installation (and the MDF reinforces this impression).

Also I am sure you guys are all about the minimalism, but definitely also needs a good boost in colour. Imagine if the shop were painted say blue with a little white - you would probably have an explosion in visitors overnight!

lucky john

Sorry, but if you expect to benefit from passing trade on the 2nd busiest bride in dublin you are going to have to make a few changes.

Web design and tec stuff is not my thing so I haven't followed your earlier thread and I'm not going to search for it now because I just want to say what I see from your photos.

Looking at your photos of the shop I assume you sell website templates that are fairly cheap and basic. You don't have anything over the door so I assume you haven't opend yet and that's confirmed by the dull, empty, unfinished look on the inside. That mdf desk is cheap looking and certainly I won't be enticed in to sit in on thoes stools. A passer by won't get the idea of the quick chat area. Why have you not some kind of signage even inviting some one in for a quick visit?

If this shop is a window for your brand then it certainly wouldn't encourage me to even consider you unless I was looking for something very basic and cheap. The lack of any colour is striking actually.

I've tried to avoid mentioning the rubbish outside because its not your fault but it's desperate and will have passer by's looking at it and avoiding it rather than noticing your shop. However, you are making absolutely no attempt to catch their eye. A grey board with no writing over the door is a real missed opportunity. the first place anyone will look to see what type of shop it is over the door. I don't know how much the rent is there but surely an advertising billboard on a busy spot like that would be considered prime and yet you are paying for that spot and leaving it blank. Are you so busy you don't need any advertising?

I don't know your usp but tec spaces these days is all about cool, colour, comfort, coffee , coke, collaboration, concepts. The one c you don't want to be associated with is cheap. Value yes, not cheap. Unfortunately, grey and mdf look cheap.

Alot of what I see could easily be fixed with a bit of colour, a coffee machine, advertising your offerings and replacing the mdf with a comfortable couch and a coffee table.

Ok. Your probably fuming with me at this stage but without knowing you or your business that's what I see as a passersby. I would never be as brave to put my business up on a public forum like this and invite comment. I'm not the best at taking criticism even by the well intentioned but every day a potential customer comes in contact with our businesses they make exactly that assessment in their mind.

Fair play to you and I hope this venture works out the best.

lucky john

was.deevey wrote: »

I'd almost think of somehow making the entire shopfront appear to be a website before they get in the door outside e.g. sidebars, content areas, call to action, address bar above the door etc ...

Make people automatically think website when they look at it.

Just went back to read others comments after leaving mine. This comment above is a great idea. If it was possible to do it could be fantastic and a real eye catcher.

jhegarty

From the outside I have no idea what the business sells/does.

I would assume it's an internet cafe that closed down a few years ago.

Cianos

Thanks very much for the replies, loads of varied feedback and honest input which is exactly what I wanted!

Rather than quoting everyone I'll address the main points raised;

The most critical thing for us is getting across the message of what we do. I had thought that the name did most of the work here but I can see that that's just not the case. So I definitely think we need to hammer it home more. I think we'll put a big "WE MAKE WEBSITES" sign on the window just to make it 100% clear.

And thanks to this thread I'm definitely going to have a think about the upper frontage.

About it looking unfinished, that was something I was worried about alright. We are going for a minimalist designy look, but I realise this can also be alienating which we don't want. Bunsen was definitely an inspiration to the poster who mentioned them!

The counter is made from OSB which is a much better quality MDF-like material. It looks much nicer in person and it's a "trendy" material to work with, Airbnb have used it a lot in their Dublin offices for example:



I'm hoping that if we filled out the place a bit more with more colour, a monitor on the countertop, some more plants, more literature etc then it would help alleviate that unfinished look.

I didn't mention in the OP that we've bootstrapped this whole thing with a VERY modest initial investment so the minimalist approach was also out of necessity We're not (yet) in a position to kit the place out with expensive gear etc but still, getting the general look & feel is really important and can be done without loads of cash if you're smart about it, so I really appreciate everyones' input so far.

Hillybilly4

was.deevey wrote: »

I'd almost think of somehow making the entire shopfront appear to be a website before they get in the door outside e.g. sidebars, content areas, call to action, address bar above the door etc ...

Make people automatically think website when they look at it.

+1 What an excellent idea!

Fries-With-That

Hi Cianos

Congratulations on taking your pop up concept to the next level.

I'm going to sound harsh, it does look like its been bootstrapped and it doesn't have to.

The stools for your customers look far cheaper than the ones you're kept behind the counter, switch them.

The banner behind the informal chat counter should be placed about 1 foot inside the main window and have a colour changing led bulb shining down on the lettering it will give a nice effect and also add movement to the window.

You need a slogan, on the window to paraphrase a movie slogan from a few years ago, If we build it, they will come.......

While the counter may appear trendy, it screams unfinished.

I'd be heading to the nearest hardware that mixes paint and try to pick up as many weird mismatched colour mix paints as I could and use them on the walls.( Mismatch can be picked up from €5 -€15)

The consultation area should be behind a screen, light plasterboard and 2x2 timber frame, will cost you less than €50.

Use your windows and the available the signboard over the shop.

Best of luck with the shop, and I hope to use your service in the future.

jimmii

With all the great feedback you've got here I might do the same with our shop!

Sugar Free

Just another variation of what other people have said but the store front reminds me a lot of Jo Burger in Rathmines with its drab green colour.

Granted that's a very different business but even though I've eaten there dozens of times I still occasionally walk right by without noticing.

lucky john

Cianos wrote: »

Thanks very much for the replies, loads of varied feedback and honest input which is exactly what I wanted!

Rather than quoting everyone I'll address the main points raised;

The most critical thing for us is getting across the message of what we do. I had thought that the name did most of the work here but I can see that that's just not the case. So I definitely think we need to hammer it home more. I think we'll put a big "WE MAKE WEBSITES" sign on the window just to make it 100% clear.

And thanks to this thread I'm definitely going to have a think about the upper frontage.

About it looking unfinished, that was something I was worried about alright. We are going for a minimalist designy look, but I realise this can also be alienating which we don't want. Bunsen was definitely an inspiration to the poster who mentioned them!

The counter is made from OSB which is a much better quality MDF-like material. It looks much nicer in person and it's a "trendy" material to work with, Airbnb have used it a lot in their Dublin offices for example:



I'm hoping that if we filled out the place a bit more with more colour, a monitor on the countertop, some more plants, more literature etc then it would help alleviate that unfinished look.

I didn't mention in the OP that we've bootstrapped this whole thing with a VERY modest initial investment so the minimalist approach was also out of necessity We're not (yet) in a position to kit the place out with expensive gear etc but still, getting the general look & feel is really important and can be done without loads of cash if you're smart about it, so I really appreciate everyones' input so far.

So many guys have come on here and asked for honest feedback. They they get all defensive when they get it and it ends badly. Fair play for taking this feedback in the manner it was ment.

_Brian

Not much I could add but to reaffirm what the lads have said about the grey colour not being vibrant enough to catch punters..
Get a nice designed sign over your shop, its insane not to utilise that space as you're paying for it and then leaving it empty !!

If you can't afford lots of tech and lcd's would it work to get some of the snap frames for posters, have some A1 prints of previous websites on display.

Lastly I'd like to echo what others have said, you bravely asked for feedback and took it on board quickly, that sort of attitude is rare among start-up's as we tend to be so emotionally involved and have invested so much of ourselves that criticism is taken too personally.. Well done you !!

EDIT:
In fairness, I had a look at your website and the photo of the shop in the banner looks wonderful, but a full sign would really add to the whole look.

Peterdalkey

OSB is an interesting looking material and while it might be very cool in the airbnb offices, they are not trying to get punters into their offices, their visitors are all online and only the staff get to see it!! Not at all the same objective as you Cianos!

Buttercake

Hi, i think the concept is very good. A lot of people really need their hand held when getting their first website.

As others have said, I would lose the grey, white and wood feel - it feels very tired nowadays as its done EVERYWHERE. I would think more google than airbnb, google are more inviting, fun while also serious about their business.

I would make it more welcoming, inviting and simplistic for browsers . Its the same if you are selling anything in a shop

An lcd screen mounted in the window with some loop presentation of your sites/portfolio and of course some prices (starting from €xxx) might help catch the eye.

You have to figure your target market by having a shop like this, are they going to be savvy hipsters who know website and social media inside out? probably not, are you more inclined to have Mary who runs a small recruitment business across the road in the office park dropping in but doesn't know where to start when it comes to websites? potentially

its great an all having a shop but people will want to know if its going to cost them €100 or €1000 before they enter as the might feel silly

Maybe you could get some cereal type boxes made up and put in the window and printed with "YOUR NEW WEBSITE" written on them so it feels like an actual product?, different vibrant colours for different packages.

best of luck

#my2cents

Cianos

@Fries-With-That Thanks very much for the input, we're going to have a good think about how to bring in more colour and vibrancy for within our budget.

Regarding the upper frontage we're thinking of getting some 3D lettering done to make it stand out more but still keep the minimal/tidy look that we want, I'd appreciate everyones' thoughts on us doing something like this;

lucky john wrote: »

So many guys have come on here and asked for honest feedback. They they get all defensive when they get it and it ends badly. Fair play for taking this feedback in the manner it was ment.

Cheers, there's no value in just having your ego stroked!

Peterdalkey wrote: »

OSB is an interesting looking material and while it might be very cool in the airbnb offices, they are not trying to get punters into their offices, their visitors are all online and only the staff get to see it!! Not at all the same objective as you Cianos!

True. We're going to dress up the rest of the shop and I think this should help with the 'unfinished' appearance, if not we'll have to have another think about it.

Buttercake wrote: »

its great an all having a shop but people will want to know if its going to cost them €100 or €1000 before they enter as the might feel silly

This is a very good point. There's no standard price for a website, so people might be worried about walking in somewhere when they've no idea how much they'll be asked to spend, which could turn out embarrassing. At the same time we don't want to market ourselves on price as it changes the pitch in many ways. Maybe we could have a "From €XXX" done in a tasteful manner which wouldn't tie us in and would allow people to have more confidence walking through the door.

Buttercake wrote:

Maybe you could get some cereal type boxes made up and put in the window and printed with "YOUR NEW WEBSITE" written on them so it feels like an actual product?, different vibrant colours for different packages.

Funnily enough this is an idea on the cards, to give a 'pack' to new customers much the same way as phone companies do!

Thanks again everyone, much appreciated.

Hard to find a colour to blend with the purples and yellows beside it! Thats one o the reasons the grey doesn't work, because of whats around you.
And annoying to have those bikes and rubbish outside. If the lazy councillors can't be bothered to do anything and you know who is putting the rubbish there, Id go talk to him/her, tell him your buying a bin and ask him to use it.

What could be a fun thing to do is get a sign on the front of the house above - "NEED A WEBSITE BUILT"? With an Arrow pointing down to the shop - "CLICK HERE" Something like what the previous person said but if its above the window, all those people who haven't seen it or didn't know it was there will see it then.

Might need to get approval from the lazy ones for that though

theKillerBite

Is there something weird about the front door. It looks like your getting in a window with such a big step.

The inside is very bare and uninviting (intimidating). It kinda looks like your putting your customers on display like mannequins sitting on barstools.

I don't like the bar-style desk at all tbh. Why not go for a Trailfinders look, your customers could have a proper discussion sitting face to face.



Have some brochures, pot plants, warm lighting. Do you have a coat rack for customers?

Tell people exactly what you do on the window/outside, it took me 2 pages to figure out that you design websites.

antoinolachtnai

I saw this shop before seeing the thread and then saw it again.

I have been in the web game for a long time (since 1995) and judged all sorts of competitions on web agencies and dealt with loads. I deal now and again with retail strategy too.)

There are lots of subjective things I could say. Liking/not-liking the colour, OSB, lettering, etc. (If you care, I like the OSB, like the colour and lettering but don't think the standard of the workmanship or design on the outside of the shop looks crisp enough to carry off your ambition - but other people would think something different and if you really want to think about opinions, you need to make sure you know the opinions of your potential customers, not just the ladies and gentlemen of boards.ie.)

It is always very interesting to see the retail 'paradigm' or 'metaphor' applied to something that is inherently not retail. Website dev is everything retail is not. It is more b2b than b2c. It is about service, not product, is intangible, not real stuff you can feel and touch. It is about fuzzy prices and budgets, rather than clear offers.

That is not a criticism by the way. These are big problems for web and consulting industries. The offerings of web companies are too hard to purchase and consume. They are not particularly profitable either.

What you are about (I am guessing) is making it easier to purchase and consume these services. This is a good thing. It makes sense, at least in principle.

I think you have to follow through this thought. Your 'bar' is about having a conversation about a website or whatever. Well, I think you need a clear 'product' or 'offering' to help open the conversation.

An example of a 'product' would be a basic web page for 199 euros. Underneath that you write what is included in that. Or setting up twitter and Facebook company pages for 249 euros. Or training in using wordpress to update your website for 149 euros. (Or whatever prices, I don't know.) The important thing is that the punters know to some degree where they are before they begin.

I would suggest that the website is where these offers need to be laid out.

You will see the computer service companies putting together these sorts of offers. Compub also tries to offer things like training and service, which, together with accessories is where their profitability actually comes from. Also, carpet shops and tile places try to put together a 'package' of what it's going to cost to 'do' your hall stairs and landing or bathroom or whatever. In practice, they need your measurements or whatever. But it is a starting point for the conversation.

Once the conversation begins, the objective is to figure out something you can quote them for. It doesn't matter much what, but you want to aim to have them leaving the shop with some sort of quotation winging their way to their inbox.

You could also have something like a 'free' evaluation where you look at people's existing website and give them a list of recommendations about it. Or maybe charge a small fee for this.

You could also have some sort of 'event' and invite people. Difficult to execute well, but it makes proper use of the space and gets the word out.

It is the sort of location that you notice the shop when you are driving around or on a bus. So you will get some prominence from it. I would be interested to know how much web traffic the shop has attracted.

That said, it is not a great spot for business walk-ins in my view. Tough for parking, and not really a place where business people would naturally 'be'. But that doesn't necessarily matter. If people see the shop, then see the website, then call you or make an effort to call in, that will work.

Don't get too upset if things don't work fast. Even for highly experienced people, it can take years to really establish a retail business. And your concept is very difficult to carry off. Marketing/selling web-related services sustainably and profitably is difficult.

Scaldy Ned

amdublin wrote: »

Looks good to me!

Do you design websites?

Think that says it all .
Best of luck with it , i would go with a theme that if you have a business let us help you make it better and get that message out front. We all know that every business nowdays should have a site, what you need to let them know is the advantages it can bring...expanding customer base etc.....Lot's of small business owners would probably be too embarrassed to admit that they don't know what all this website stuff is all about, i would concentrate on making up a leaflet that doesn't assume a certain level of knowledge and explaining what a website is and how it works....i'm sure there are tons of old type businesses in Dublin that could benefit.
Get them to call in for a free chat that can clear the "website fog"
Best of Luck

Peterdalkey

Cianos

It is pretty clear that your interpretation of chic minimalist is too obtuse with your physical shopfront presentation , for the target market at least. I am sorry to say your own website is in a similar vein, and I would not be tempted by it all (http://thewebsiteshop.ie) You need to showcase premium design talents as well as great technical capability in your space if you hope to compete in this market.

I have always thought the concept was very "brave" but the lack of knockout design could well be a killer. Hate to be so negative but you asked for honest feedback.

Cheers

Peter

Moomat

Well done on taking the leap and best of luck with it.

I understand you're trying to keep the minimalist look but I don't think this is a great idea for trying to catch peoples attention. It would be fine if you are world renowned and have established a niche for yourself but at your stage it's too much of a contradiction. You are trying to make web design accessible but at the same time making your shop very forgettable and easy to miss. Bright and flashy may seem cheesy but it would probably attract the very people you need to make this work.

I clicked onto your website and couldn't see any showcase of your work. I'd imagine many people would follow the same path as me, see shop>>check website>>note work and ball park prices>>compare prices online>>visit shop
On the website as soon as I logged on a little chat window popped up asking do I need help. I find them a little intimidating, feels like you're being monitored especially within seconds of logging on and people may think this would be mirrored in the shop.

Atomico

I think fundamentally the branding and positioning of TWS needs to match up with the target market a lot more. At the minute it reflects your own design ideals and approach, rather than what appeals most to the target market

When it comes to your average Irish SME, they just want simplicity at the right price - a website that mirrors what they ask for and which they feel they got at the right ballpark price.

To get to simplicity and to convey that you can offer a very good price for a basic site which does the job, I reckon it's just about being *really* obvious. So much less about the kind of sleek minimalism that would appeal to other designers, and much more about:

-what do you do
-what do you offer
-what can you do (aka what have you done for other clients?)
-how much is it going to cost me! ('websites from €...')

I'd see it as building a solid, brightly coloured and clearly messaged bridge between the 'we have what YOU are looking for' elements, and what the customer really wants (a simple, basic, but solid website at a middle-of-the-road price).

Also, having been there more than once, the frontage area above the door REALLY hits you square on as you walk/drive over the bridge. It's crazy not to be maximising that, and it would be really simple to just put:

thewebsiteshop.ie - we make websites

...over the door!

beauf

Atomico wrote: »

...It's crazy not to be maximising that, and it would be really simple to just put:

thewebsiteshop.ie - we make websites

...over the door!

Just to add my 2cents, I agree with this. I don't think its obvious what you do, on the shop or the website. Likewise you need to make the "brand" more recognisable. I don't really get the receptionist bar thing.

terryhobdell

I pass this every night never noticed I don't think the interior matters ( I think it looks great by the way) Your problem is how do I see you. where do I park or how do I contact you if I can't park? Get your website address up in huge letters and point people to a parking spot. ie parking turn left 100 metres or whatever.

tarmon

I think Antoinolachtnai's advice above is excellent. I've just started up a small tourism business and one thing that stands out to me when looking for a web designer is the reluctance of people to advertise prices. Everything seems to be "contact us for a quote". As Antoinolachtnai said you want to get to the stage where you can begin a conversation with a prospective client so I really think if you advertised some packages that would entice people to contact you. Obviously the packages have the proviso that anything additional costs extra but at least a customer would have some starting point. To me it sometimes seems to be smoke and mirrors when it comes to pricing for website design and development. I absolutely understand that its not an off the shelf or out of the box product but given the advances in the sector and the availability of say Wordpress surely its easier to price up packages. Personally when I see "contact us for a quote" it just turns me off...maybe that's irrational I don't know but that's how I feel and I've come across plenty who think like me!
Sorry I know I'm not commenting on your shop front or website but I just saw that piece of advise and thought that it was excellent.
Anyway best of luck with the venture! I hope it all goes well for you.

Tarmon

Buttercake

@tarmon - while not of the same obvious scale, the principle of building a website is the same as building a house.

There are a multitude of ways of getting a website these days from using open source Wordpress etc to building a custom CMS. Web designers dont like to list prices as it will attract people only interested in paying that price or scare off prospective clients, its a lose/lose. The other issue is if you advertise €500 for site, people will only want to pay €500 for the site, even if you tell the client the time has overran.

for many web designers, every client will ask for "something basic" and it ends up turning into a 3-month project when they as for additions. There are tons of features that designers can have on their site that they couldn't have years ago, the accessibility to these components is there but it still takes man hours to install, configure and design.

beauf

Is nothing like building a house. But that aside, its hard to manage expectations on a low fixed price. You have to decide if that's a market you want to work in or not. But there's a lot of competition and I wonder how profitable it is.

Graham

beauf wrote: »

Is nothing like building a house.

I'd have to disagree. Saying 'how much for a website' is every bit as open ended as saying 'how much for a house'.

beauf

There is a vast difference in peoples expectation and comprehension between building a house and a website. As such they have to be sold very differently.

Unless of course its a sweeping generalisation that could be applied to any project regardless of scale. Which is a bit pointless imo.

Buttercake

beauf wrote: »

There is a vast difference in peoples expectation and comprehension between building a house and a website. As such they have to be sold very differently.

Unless of course its a sweeping generalisation that could be applied to any project regardless of scale. Which is a bit pointless imo.

It's a figure of speech and is applied to give clients some vivid realism of the work that goes into "building" a site, as opposed to someone sitting in front of a computer. For any website worth their weight you will have project manager, designer, developers, copywriters, etc all working on it or perhaps 1 or 2 people assuming all roles. just ike an architect, builder, electrican, project manager etc etc so it would be a generalisation of sorts.

tricky D

Coming originally from the construction sector a long time ago, I see many many parallels between building websites of many sorts of functions and constructing buildings (though I wouldn't say houses myself) of similar functions, sizes and so on, especially in the b2b sphere. It's a very handy figure of speech and method for providing analogies to explain the website building processes, requirements, etc. to prospects. Not always perfect analogies, but very handy nevertheless.

Graham

beauf wrote: »

There is a vast difference in peoples expectation and comprehension between building a house and a website.

In your experience, what are people expectations of a website? How much should they cost?

beauf

I think its a large leap from a €500 website to building a house. On a project thats 50k, or 500k, I think they'll already understand the difference between a small and large project.