has cork city been ruined by bike lanes?

lolosaur

It appears as though someone in charge left a four year old loose with a pack of crayons and came up with a bike lane scheme for the city.

Alll of washington street, in my eyes has been destroyed by the most retarded piece of work i have ever seen for a street layout and things will probably only get worse as the bike schemes are expanded.


I fear for the city with palpable window lickers in charge.

As the song goes, " by the banks of my own lovely bike lane"

AugustusMinimus

The installation of a bike lane outside of the main entrance to UCC is the biggest disaster of all.

They have now removed the filter lane to do a U turn back down Sheare Street. This means the queue trying to do this U turn is now backing up all the way down Washington Street. Its creating utter chaos every morning. I've had to change the way I drive to work because of it.

My vote is going to an anti cycle lane candidate if there is one.

Triangla

If it ain't broke, stick in a cycle lane.

If it still works shove a bus lane in too.

whisky_galore

Lot of bike hate here, but the scheme smacks of 'do something...anything...even if it's wrong.'

MrFrisp

"has cork city been ruined by bike lanes?"


Yes!
.

kcb

Whether or not it works I don't know (I think lots of people are getting too excited about it!) but I just don't know where they are getting the money.... I thought the whole country was broke.

I'd rather they started tidying the verges and cleaning the place up in general if they do have money.

Milly33

It hasn't been ruined by they it has been ruined by the muppets who like you said had the crayons...They fecked it up and tis aslo been fecked up by the amount of reckless cyclist...

xabi

I heard it was EU money that has to be spent on bike lanes or returned.

Milly33

It was there was fund given out but they still could have designed them better. Like sure they hop all over the place

lolosaur

Cowboys Ted.

Im sure many a person has hit one of those stupid kerbs that jut out down along washington street that are pretty much invisible.

Its ruined the aestetics of the city if nothing else and is pointless. it is cork, not dublin. the ifsc and ballsbridge area have 30-40000 converging on it daily where as the entire city of cork wouldnt have that much i am guessing.

There was no need for it. none. warrented in the dublin areas but for the love of god, why bring such a preposterous scheme to an already bottle necked city.

Padraig Mor

whisky_galore wrote: »

Lot of bike hate here, but the scheme smacks of 'do something...anything...even if it's wrong.'

There isn't a single post in this thread with "bike hate". Just people complaining about dangerous implementation of cycle lanes.

Pitcairn

I think it's great and I drive Washington Street every day.
The reason for the current tailbacks is because they are still laying the paving slabs at the gates of UCC. Once they are finished the left turn lane up O'Donovan's Road will be open along with the straight ahead/right turn lane.
Beforehand there was only ever a few cars in each of the three lanes and they moved through quickly. Now there will be two lanes so it might tailback a bit further but nothing major.
They have also just begun putting down the concrete divider on Pope's Quay for the cycle lane there. I'd say there'll be uproar over that as well.
I don't really have a problem with them installing these things as long as they admit if they get it wrong and reverse it afterwards. But I think Washington Street will work well once it's all finished.

evilivor

Pitcairn wrote: »

I think it's great and I drive Washington Street every day.
The reason for the current tailbacks is because they are still laying the paving slabs at the gates of UCC. Once they are finished the left turn lane up O'Donovan's Road will be open along with the straight ahead/right turn lane.
Beforehand there was only ever a few cars in each of the three lanes and they moved through quickly. Now there will be two lanes so it might tailback a bit further but nothing major.
They have also just begun putting down the concrete divider on Pope's Quay for the cycle lane there. I's day there'll be uproar over that as well.
I don't really have a problem with them installing these things as long as they admit if they get it wrong and reverse it afterwards. But I think Washington Street will work well once it's all finished.

I presume they Mass crowd won't park in this cycle lane like good god-fearing citizens.

TINA1984

Every time road space in the City Centre is given over to anything beside the mighty car, we hear the same predictable whining. We heard it when Bus Lanes were put in, we heard it when on-street parking spaces were eliminated, we heard it when the speed limit was reduced and now we're hearing it when bike lanes have been put in.

Motorists can't seem to get their head around the idea that city centre streets are more then just rat runs and car parks.

Eurovisionmad

lolosaur wrote: »

Cowboys Ted.

Im sure many a person has hit one of those stupid kerbs that jut out down along washington street that are pretty much invisible.

Better hitting a kerb rather than a cyclist, Cork drivers cannot handle cyclists on the road at all!

Henry94

I never had a problem cycling around town without lanes. My biggest issue was thieves. If they had spent the money on bicycle lockers for the city centre it would have done more to get people cycling and made a profit.

lolosaur

Eurovisionmad wrote: »

Better hitting a kerb rather than a cyclist, Cork drivers cannot handle cyclists on the road at all!

Bull.

It's not a cork thing.

as both a cyclist and a driver, 90% of the time a cyclist will be at fault.
I am guilty of it myself at times but some people should not be allowed near a bike without taking a test. and cyclists who think they own the road are the worst of all. At least in a car you realise the potential for danger but cyclists think they are invincible and havent got a modicum of respect for anyone else.

Lyaiera

That's rubbish. You're far more aware of the dangers on the road when you're a cyclist. Especially cars who don't seem to think anything smaller than them is worth sharing the road with. And "cyclists who think they own the road?" Really? Cyclists are just as entitled to use the roads as any motorist.

lolosaur

Lyaiera wrote: »

That's rubbish. You're far more aware of the dangers on the road when you're a cyclist. Especially cars who don't seem to think anything smaller than them is worth sharing the road with. And "cyclists who think they own the road?" Really? Cyclists are just as entitled to use the roads as any motorist.

Im not getting into an arguement over cycling vs. cars as cyclists tend to get very pissy over it.

Lyaiera

lolosaur wrote: »

Im not getting into an arguement over cycling vs. cars as cyclists tend to get very pissy over it.

I wonder why when people come out with gems like, "90% of the time a cyclist will be at fault." :rolleyes:

FrStone

TINA1984 wrote: »

Motorists can't seem to get their head around the idea that city centre streets are more then just rat runs and car parks.

Cyclists can't seem to get their head around that only 2% of traffic within the city is that of cyclists, space is limited so it should be utilised better.

Henry94

lolosaur wrote: »

Im not getting into an arguement over cycling vs. cars as cyclists tend to get very pissy over it.

It's a hardy annual and both sides can be quite pissy. The solution is the kind of segregation we are seeing now which will make the roads safer for everyone and encourage more people to cycle. The more people that cycle the more space cars will have so it's a win for everyone.

We can only judge any piece of infrastructure when its finished. Remember the fuss when the roundabout was taken away on Boreenmanna road. That has been a great success.

whisky_galore

Padraig Mor wrote: »

There isn't a single post in this thread with "bike hate". Just people complaining about dangerous implementation of cycle lanes.

It was barely concealed, bubbling under the surface, but as you can see now we're in the thick of it.
The usual 'Everyone on the road is an idiot (except me) posts'.

AugustusMinimus

Pitcairn wrote: »

I think it's great and I drive Washington Street every day.
The reason for the current tailbacks is because they are still laying the paving slabs at the gates of UCC. Once they are finished the left turn lane up O'Donovan's Road will be open along with the straight ahead/right turn lane.
Beforehand there was only ever a few cars in each of the three lanes and they moved through quickly. Now there will be two lanes so it might tailback a bit further but nothing major.

This isn't the case. It is not the roadworks which are causing the tailbacks but the new filter system.

https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=cork+city&hl=en&ll=51.895593,-8.488011&spn=0.000007,0.003449&sll=53.3834,-8.21775&sspn=3.801239,7.064209&hnear=Cork,+County+Cork&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.895594,-8.489035&panoid=RlnVlo0WfgFsk_Vavh5e1w&cbp=12,258.98,,0,8.35

There is only one lane now for straight ahead and to turn right to do the U turn onto Sheare Street. To do the U turn, there must be no traffic coming against you as you must give way to traffic travelling east on the Western Road.

There is a constant stream of cars heading east in the morning and very little opportunity to pull out to do the U turn. This means there are monumental traffic jams going back down Washington Street. Have you driven through this junction at rush hour since they changed it ?

FrStone

Henry94 wrote: »

The more people that cycle the more space cars will have so it's a win for everyone.

I think the question though is will the cycle lanes actually encourage more to cycle. I doubt it, Cork is hillier than most so I don't think we will see the sport being taken up in as great numbers as it is in Dublin.

I think if we want more space we should encourage public transport, but at the moment the installation of the cycle lanes on Washington Street has led to frequent delays for buses during rush hour, thus discouraging the use of public transport.

Henry94

FrStone

The disruption will pass when the job is finished.

TINA1984

FrStone wrote: »

Cyclists can't seem to get their head around that only 2% of traffic within the city is that of cyclists, space is limited so it should be utilised better.

With the improvement in cycling infrastructure and the addition of Cork Bikes we should see cycling take off in the Cork urban area, like it has in Dublin. The City Centre area where most of the congestion is and where the Cork Bike stations will be is quite flat, so the 'Cork is hilly' argument doesn't really fly.

lolosaur

Henry94 wrote: »

FrStone

The disruption will pass when the job is finished.

once everything is in place, the gas board are due to start laying their newer lines along the new roads.

FrStone

TINA1984 wrote: »

With the improvement in cycling infrastructure and the addition of Cork Bikes we should see cycling take off in the Cork urban area, like it has in Dublin. The City Centre area where most of the congestion is and where the Cork Bike stations will be is quite flat, so the 'Cork is hilly' argument doesn't really fly.

Most commute into the city and don't live within the City centre, those who do in most cases are able to walk around anyway.

We will have to wait and see but I doubt it will take off.

FrStone

Henry94 wrote: »

FrStone

The disruption will pass when the job is finished.

Once the job is finished we are down a lane, the same amount of vehicles sharing less space. Getting rid of a lane has to cause traffic disruption.

SpaceTime

If you could pick a bike up at St Luke's X and cycle IN to the city centre and have it returned by the bike scheme it would be kinda handy one way

evilivor

SpaceTime wrote: »

If you could pick a bike up at St Luke's X and cycle IN to the city centre and have it returned by the bike scheme it would be kinda handy one way

I was very impressed by the system in Denver.

pwurple

Love the bus bike holder!

As a cyclist, I find the new lanes utterly confusing. There are places where there is a cycle lane on only one side of the road. Is it supposed to be a two-way cycle... Ie i cycle against traffic?

There are loads of places where the lanes appear and disappear, or run straight through a car lane.

Bus/cycle lane combos? Hate those more than anything. A speeding bus hurtling past my bike is scary, fume-filled and all sorts of crap gets chucked in my eyes. Why do people think buses and cyclists go together?

As a van driver, motorcyclist, car driver and pedestrian, the lane positions are demented. I'm sure we've all seen people tripping over those kerbs in the middle of washington street already.

Max_Charger

lolosaur wrote: »

Bull.

It's not a cork thing.

as both a cyclist and a driver, 90% of the time a cyclist will be at fault.
I am guilty of it myself at times but some people should not be allowed near a bike without taking a test. and cyclists who think they own the road are the worst of all. At least in a car you realise the potential for danger but cyclists think they are invincible and havent got a modicum of respect for anyone else.

I've highlighted in bold what I think is "Bull".

evilivor

pwurple wrote: »

Love the bus bike holder!

They are seriously good - Denver is a great example of what can be done if city realises that cars are not the only users of roads and they have plenty of hills etc. They recognised that cycling is healthy, economical and environmentally friendly way to commute to work, school or recreational activities and, you know what, is just works. They have bike lockers, a bike sharing scheme etc.

Same as it works in most european cities - the system doesn't need to be segregated - it's integrated - bikes riders are recognised as having the same rights as any other road users - more in fact 'cos they're vulnerable.

The problem with Cork is that they are trying to retrofit, what was already a complicated road system, with more cycle lanes and infrastructure, without maintaining what's already there and implementing the existing regulations and laws - for motorists and cyclists.

Until we get city councillors and a Mayor advocating for it - like Boris in London or the greens in Dublin, Cork will remain unenlightened and cars will continue to clog the city.

cgcsb

For those of us not currently living in Cork can someone describe in detail what is actually wrong with the new cycle lanes in question? Are they poorly designed? Some posters here seem to be a bit hysterical about them, but aren't very clear as to why??

Eurovisionmad

cgcsb wrote: »

For those of us not currently living in Cork can someone describe in detail what is actually wrong with the new cycle lanes in question? Are they poorly designed? Some posters here seem to be a bit hysterical about them, but aren't very clear as to why??

They are segregated from general traffic by a low bollard, a lot of people have hit the bollard, and it also takes a lane from general traffic.

rovoagho

Milly33 wrote: »

It hasn't been ruined by they it has been ruined by the muppets who like you said had the crayons...They fecked it up and tis aslo been fecked up by the amount of reckless cyclist...

Anyone care to translate?

FrStone wrote: »

Cyclists can't seem to get their head around that only 2% of traffic within the city is that of cyclists, space is limited so it should be utilised better.

And, you know, red lights.

cgcsb

Eurovisionmad wrote: »

They are segregated from general traffic by a low bollard,

That would sem to be the optimum design for cycling facilities, i.e. physical seperation from general traffic.

Eurovisionmad wrote: »

a lot of people have hit the bollard,

Some people are bad drivers. Here in Dublin when the Luas opened there were a few crashes because drivers simply couldn't manage to keep their bonnets out of the yellow box at a red light, driving habits have improved since but it still happens. Just a few weeks ago a young female pedestrian in Dublin was crushed to death when a car ran a red light stopped in the yellow box and was hit by the luas. The car then spun out of control and pinned the woman to a wall killing her.

The moral of the story is motorists need to improve their habits.

Eurovisionmad wrote: »

and it also takes a lane from general traffic.

In Dublin cars are being used less and less for peak hour commuting because parking is prohibitively expensive and road capacity has been reduced in favour of buses and cycling facilities. All Irish Cities and towns will follow suite, just relax and let it happen, Cork commuters would be better off spending their time lobbying for a better bus system. 15 minutes between buses during peak time is a travesty.

Eurovisionmad

cgcsb wrote: »

That would sem to be the optimum design for cycling facilities, i.e. physical seperation from general traffic.



Some people are bad drivers. Here in Dublin when the Luas opened there were a few crashes because drivers simply couldn't manage to keep their bonnets out of the yellow box at a red light, driving habits have improved since but it still happens. Just a few weeks ago a young female pedestrian in Dublin was crushed to death when a car ran a red light stopped in the yellow box and was hit by the luas. The car then spun out of control and pinned the woman to a wall killing her.

The moral of the story is motorists need to improve their habits.



In Dublin cars are being used less and less for peak hour commuting because parking is prohibitively expensive and road capacity has been reduced in favour of buses and cycling facilities. All Irish Cities and towns will follow suite, just relax and let it happen, Cork commuters would be better off spending their time lobbying for a better bus system. 15 minutes between buses during peak time is a travesty.

Oh I agree with most of what you said, I don't see why cars should have the run of the city centre, like if you have to drive up Washington street or South Mall at peak hours cars should have to put with being less than priority! Yeah give it time and motorists will get used to the low bollard, there are far narrower roads in Cork than that!

cgcsb

The thread title is verging on the hysterical and some of the attitudes expressed regarding cycling as a mode of transportation. Are primitive

rob316

Not a single business in the washington street area is happy with it let me tell you. Absolute disaster from start to finish. The businesses that pay extortionate rates to the council had not a single say on the matter.

Cycle lanes as big as car lane.

Garda furious also over the removal of taxi ranks from probably the busiest street in town. When all the drunken crowd leave Reardens, Chambers etc they have to go in to Patrick St/Grand Parade with all the other crowds for a taxi. Its a safety hazard.

They added more loading bays that's about all that is positive. (for more cars to park in :mad:)

A case of fixing something that wasn't broken.

Dannyboy83

cgcsb wrote: »

For those of us not currently living in Cork can someone describe in detail what is actually wrong with the new cycle lanes in question? Are they poorly designed? Some posters here seem to be a bit hysterical about them, but aren't very clear as to why??

Terrible planning, even worse implementation.


By attempting to retrofit cycle lanes on many of the busiest thoroughfares in Cork, they have removed vital overflow lanes and reduced the most congested areas of the city to a single lane, despite no reduction in the actual throughput.

In order to sustain this project, Cork would require a complete orbital road. They've put the cart before the horse in a very bad way.

Many business people are furious and the police are also unhappy.
Perhaps worst of all however, the cycle lanes are so mal-planned/shoddily implemented, that a lot of cyclists are refusing to use them.

I believe this will cause a more pronounced doughnut effect in Cork City, which has already been hollowing out for some time.

Personally I have entirely stopped doing any business or shopping in the city centre, as well as cancelling membership of a gym where I had been a member for 12 years.

Washington street is in a category of it's own however, as it crosses the line of poor planning, into health hazard, where contra-flow bike lanes cross over the path of a junction (where drivers are looking the opposite direction)

I believe they will be forced to roll back many of these changes in time, but I would imagine Washington street will be more immediate, as there will be a fatality before long I'm quite certain.

rob316

There will be no one in the City centre soon, all business is been driven out to Mahon Point, Wilton, Douglas, Blackpool etc, its a disgrace.

pwurple

cgcsb wrote: »

In Dublin cars are being used less and less for peak hour commuting because parking is prohibitively expensive and road capacity has been reduced in favour of buses and cycling facilities. All Irish Cities and towns will follow suite, just relax and let it happen, Cork commuters would be better off spending their time lobbying for a better bus system. 15 minutes between buses during peak time is a travesty.

I'd love a better bus system. You should see how the LEAP card has just been implemented here. It's on top of the ticket box in front of the driver.

How i use Leap in dublin (or oyster in london etc). Hop on bus, swipe at pole, done.

How i use leap in cork. Queue up with cash customers. Swipe leap at ticket point. Bus driver gets out his glasses, presses some buttons. Says 'try again'. Angry queue forms behind. Bus further delayed. More buttons pressed. Says 'think that worked' glasses off. Have to pay for child with coin anyway. Arg!

15 mins between buses at peak times would be a godsend most routes. Try 30.

Dannyboy83

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This isn't the case. It is not the roadworks which are causing the tailbacks but the new filter system.

https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=cork+city&hl=en&ll=51.895593,-8.488011&spn=0.000007,0.003449&sll=53.3834,-8.21775&sspn=3.801239,7.064209&hnear=Cork,+County+Cork&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.895594,-8.489035&panoid=RlnVlo0WfgFsk_Vavh5e1w&cbp=12,258.98,,0,8.35

There is only one lane now for straight ahead and to turn right to do the U turn onto Sheare Street. To do the U turn, there must be no traffic coming against you as you must give way to traffic travelling east on the Western Road.

There is a constant stream of cars heading east in the morning and very little opportunity to pull out to do the U turn. This means there are monumental traffic jams going back down Washington Street. Have you driven through this junction at rush hour since they changed it ?

This is correct.

Previously, the left lane was for Donovans Road.
The centre lane was straight on.
The right lane was to do the U-Turn or, access the Mardyke complex, homes, businesses and amenities there.

Currently, Donovans Road is inaccessible meaning all traffic must proceed straight on.
And there is no longer a right lane.

The new filter system means that if there are more than 2 cars yielding on the junction or waiting for the lights to change (there are hundreds of cars doing this every evening) , then the entirety of Washington street will come to a complete halt... unless all traffic diverts up Donovan Road onto College Road to change at Dennehy's Cross (which is already a major congestion point).

Mardyke Walk, which is already a cul de sac, cannot be pedestrianized due to the various residences, businesses and amenities which require road access, so the only was I can imagine this will even function, is to remove the barrier on Western Road to turn onto Mardyke Walk - and make this entire street one way.

Either that, or somehow create two lanes out the present one, after the junction at Donovan's Road.

AugustusMinimus

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This is correct.

Previously, the left lane was for Donovans Road.
The centre lane was straight on.
The right lane was to do the U-Turn or, access the Mardyke complex, homes, businesses and amenities there.

Currently, Donovans Road is inaccessible meaning all traffic must proceed straight on.
And there is no longer a right lane.

The new filter system means that if there are more than 2 cars yielding on the junction or waiting for the lights to change (there are hundreds of cars doing this every evening) , then the entirety of Washington street will come to a complete halt... unless all traffic diverts up Donovan Road onto College Road to change at Dennehy's Cross (which is already a major congestion point).

Mardyke Walk, which is already a cul de sac, cannot be pedestrianized due to the various residences, businesses and amenities which require road access, so the only was I can imagine this will even function, is to remove the barrier on Western Road to turn onto Mardyke Walk - and make this entire street one way.

Either that, or somehow create two lanes out the present one, after the junction at Donovan's Road.

Its not exaggeration to say that all it will take is 2 cars to block up the entire junction. And if the backlog goes back far enough (5 or 6 cars) no one will be able to turn left up Donovan's road either without illegally using the bus lane.

I see they have done the same up the side of St Finbarr's Cathedral. People turning right will block those going left as it will soon be reduced to one lane. This is crazy stuff.

The city centre is dying yet people believe that further pedestrianisation and cycle lanes are the answer ? Ask the shop owners what they think. They'll give you a different answer. High rent rates isn't the city centre's only problem.

Max_Charger

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The city centre is dying yet people believe that further pedestrianisation and cycle lanes are the answer ? Ask the shop owners what they think. They'll give you a different answer. High rent rates isn't the city centre's only problem.

What's killing the city centre is parking, or more to the point, the price of it.

FrStone

rob316 wrote: »

Cycle lanes as big as car lane.

And despite this I still see cyclists cycling on the road up Washington Street. :rolleyes:

rob316 wrote: »

Garda furious also over the removal of taxi ranks from probably the busiest street in town.

The Gardai specifically advised the council agaisnt putting in the cycle lane - yet it still went in.

rob316 wrote: »

A case of fixing something that wasn't broken.

Yep. Sure look at the mess down near the Bus station too. They managed to to carry out their roadworks in such a way that buses weren't able to actually leave the bus station.

All this will lead to is more business for the out of town shopping malls. The only of us left going in will be those of us working in the city centre. There has already been an exodus of employers out of the city, RDJ moved to Mahon not too long ago.

FrStone

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The new filter system means that if there are more than 2 cars yielding on the junction or waiting for the lights to change (there are hundreds of cars doing this every evening) , then the entirety of Washington street will come to a complete halt... unless all traffic diverts up Donovan Road onto College Road to change at Dennehy's Cross (which is already a major congestion point).

It's not just this though, it's the knock on effect that this has on traffic throughout the city. Traffic is on a good day backed up down to the courthouse. On a bad day it can about a quarter of the way down Patrick Street.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Mardyke Walk, which is already a cul de sac, cannot be pedestrianized due to the various residences, businesses and amenities which require road access, so the only was I can imagine this will even function, is to remove the barrier on Western Road to turn onto Mardyke Walk - and make this entire street one way.

That would actually be a great idea, it would really reduce pressure around the Mardyke.

Max_Charger

rob316 wrote: »

Garda furious also over the removal of taxi ranks from probably the busiest street in town. When all the drunken crowd leave Reardens, Chambers etc they have to go in to Patrick St/Grand Parade with all the other crowds for a taxi. Its a safety hazard.

Thankfully they have revised it and a taxi rank is going back in near Reardons

FrStone wrote: »

The Gardai specifically advised the council agaisnt putting in the cycle lane - yet it still went in.

Their main gripe was and still is the concrete plinth, not the cycle lane itself.