Size of Hurl bas?

Bleating Lamb

Hi all,just wondering are Hurling Bas sizes larger than they were say 10 or 20 years ago or are they different sizes in different counties?. Am from up West but not from a Hurling area,Was on a trip down the country and bought a Hurl in 'Hurling Depot' in Kilkenny to puck around with the young lad at home,was poking around in the garage and came across a hurl I had in college back in late 90's,quite a difference in size of bas!,didnt ask the man in Hurling Depot for a goalkeepers hurl so I presume the one he sold me is an outfield players hurl,he seemed to be very knowledgeable man.
Amnt the best on computer will try to upload pics of both,new hurl is the clean looking one,old one made in Kilmeaden.
thanks for any replies,
B.L.

Bleating Lamb

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Hi all,just wondering are Hurling Bas sizes larger than they were say 10 or 20 years ago or are they different sizes in different counties?. Am from up West but not from a Hurling area,Was on a trip down the country and bought a Hurl in 'Hurling Depot' in Kilkenny to puck around with the young lad at home,was poking around in the garage and came across a hurl I had in college back in late 90's,quite a difference in size of bas!,didnt ask the man in Hurling Depot for a goalkeepers hurl so I presume the one he sold me is an outfield players hurl,he seemed to be very knowledgeable man.
Amnt the best on computer will try to upload pics of both,new hurl is the clean looking one,old one made in Kilmeaden.
thanks for any replies,
B.L.

Bump;)

Twiceasnice97

hurling has totally changed.
the second difference you will see is that the older hurley is longer as well.
hurling has changed from a game where the object was to move the ball as far as possible and create a series of conrtests favouring the forward to one where keeping the ball is important and possession to a forward should be nearly unopposed so you need to retain the ball for longer hence the shorter stick with a wider bas

EIRE1922

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Hi all,just wondering are Hurling Bas sizes larger than they were say 10 or 20 years ago or are they different sizes in different counties?. Am from up West but not from a Hurling area,Was on a trip down the country and bought a Hurl in 'Hurling Depot' in Kilkenny to puck around with the young lad at home,was poking around in the garage and came across a hurl I had in college back in late 90's,quite a difference in size of bas!,didnt ask the man in Hurling Depot for a goalkeepers hurl so I presume the one he sold me is an outfield players hurl,he seemed to be very knowledgeable man.
Amnt the best on computer will try to upload pics of both,new hurl is the clean looking one,old one made in Kilmeaden.
thanks for any replies,
B.L.

Two different size and style hurls in the photo.

It is just the style of hurl you bought which has a lager bás and is a shorter size compared to the one you bought in the 1990's.

It really depends on the hurley maker and the style they produce and it can depend on a players own personal preference. Backs tend to favour a heavier weight hurl and forwards tend to prefer a lighter weight hurl for striking. Some players prefer a hurl with a large bás and some prefer a smaller one.

Goalkeeper hurls always have had a bigger bás since about the late 1970's. More timber area essentially to save, stop and hit the sliotar with by the goalkeeper.

Cork hurls generally have a much larger toe on the bás (and even their goalkeeper hurls are huge) compared to a Kilkenny or Tipperary hurl (goalkeeper hurl).

Most senior players use a 34" or 36" inch hurl. They are the two most common senior sized hurls. It depends on your height too (how you size your hurl against your hip), but it can depend on your preference too for a slightly shorter or a longer hurl. Henry Shefflin uses a size 37". Some other players use a 35". If you use anything smaller than 34" you might struggle to rise at pace and hit the ball with a shorter hurl as an adult player.

Smaller sizes under 32"/33" are generally used by juvenile players.

Having said that Joe Rabbitte of Galway always used a small hurl of about 32"-33" and he was 6'4. It worked well for him.

Older hurls dating back to the early 1900's and 1800's were longer. They tended to be anywhere from 38" - 42" and they had a much narrower bás, as hurling back then was more ground based - ground hurling. Whereas todays slightly shorter and lighter hurls are more suited for the fast paced and high fielding game.

The larger bás and lighter weight hurls used these days seem to be the main preference for most intercounty or clubs players, as it gives a better strike on the ball or has a better sweet spot during matches.

The style of some Kilkenny hurls in recent years has changed. Generally they have gone from a smaller bás to a slightly larger bás (in order to have a bigger sweet spot to strike the sliotar with). Most Kilkenny hurls would still tend to be much lighter though than say a Cork or Galway made hurl.

A lot of hurley makers around the country have now opted too for the lighter make hurl like those of the Kilkenny style just with the addition of a larger bás like those of the Cork style hurls.

Bleating Lamb

Thanks for very informative replies,back in the day in college I took up hurling as an 18 yr old!....so never turned into a D.J. Carey;)......was stuck in corner forward in some Colleges games mainly as I was a pacey forward at time in Gaelic football.Am introducing the son to Hurling at an early age as local club are making good strides with the game and I would like him to pick up the proper skills from an early age.
As regards the hurls I reckon the one I had in College in the pic is a 36',I am around 5,10' so salesman in Kilkenny got me to handle different hurls and we picked out the 34' seen in pic.
It was only when I came across the old hurl in garage that I was surprised at how much larger Bas was on new hurl.Didnt really notice them in shop in Kilkenny but the Keepers hurls must have huge Bas' altogether now.
thanks again,
B.L.

nice_guy80

conditioned games

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

I would like him to pick up the proper skills from an early age.
B.L.

Make sure he holds the hurley the right way with dominant hand on top when hitting the ball. I recken about 10 to 20 per cent of hurlers hold it wrong and so they don't get the same power behind the ball.

premierstone

Two things from this thread that concern me, firstly there is no ideal length for a hurl it is an individual preference and trial and error is the only way to discover the ideal length for you.

Also on the last post, there are many many top class hurlers that hold the hurl in what is perceived as incorrect or 'cack handed' but again if the player is comfortable with that grip they can be every bit as successfull as somone who grips it in an orthodox fashion.

Twiceasnice97

premierstone wrote: »

Two things from this thread that concern me, firstly there is no ideal length for a hurl it is an individual preference and trial and error is the only way to discover the ideal length for you.

Also on the last post, there are many many top class hurlers that hold the hurl in what is perceived as incorrect or 'cack handed' but again if the player is comfortable with that grip they can be every bit as successfull as somone who grips it in an orthodox fashion.

if you are talking about left hand on top and catching in the left hand then i would be interested to see you name them.

Twiceasnice97

EIRE1922 wrote: »

Two different size and style hurls in the photo.

It is just the style of hurl you bought which has a lager bás and is a shorter size compared to the one you bought in the 1990's.

It really depends on the hurley maker and the style they produce and it can depend on a players own personal preference. Backs tend to favour a heavier weight hurl and forwards tend to prefer a lighter weight hurl for striking. Some players prefer a hurl with a large bás and some prefer a smaller one.

Goalkeeper hurls always have had a bigger bás since about the late 1970's. More timber area essentially to save, stop and hit the sliotar with by the goalkeeper.

Cork hurls generally have a much larger toe on the bás (and even their goalkeeper hurls are huge) compared to a Kilkenny or Tipperary hurl (goalkeeper hurl).

Most senior players use a 34" or 36" inch hurl. They are the two most common senior sized hurls. It depends on your height too (how you size your hurl against your hip), but it can depend on your preference too for a slightly shorter or a longer hurl. Henry Shefflin uses a size 37". Some other players use a 35". If you use anything smaller than 34" you might struggle to rise at pace and hit the ball with a shorter hurl as an adult player.

Smaller sizes under 32"/33" are generally used by juvenile players.

Having said that Joe Rabbitte of Galway always used a small hurl of about 32"-33" and he was 6'4. It worked well for him.

Older hurls dating back to the early 1900's and 1800's were longer. They tended to be anywhere from 38" - 42" and they had a much narrower bás, as hurling back then was more ground based - ground hurling. Whereas todays slightly shorter and lighter hurls are more suited for the fast paced and high fielding game.

The larger bás and lighter weight hurls used these days seem to be the main preference for most intercounty or clubs players, as it gives a better strike on the ball or has a better sweet spot during matches.

The style of some Kilkenny hurls in recent years has changed. Generally they have gone from a smaller bás to a slightly larger bás (in order to have a bigger sweet spot to strike the sliotar with). Most Kilkenny hurls would still tend to be much lighter though than say a Cork or Galway made hurl.

A lot of hurley makers around the country have now opted too for the lighter make hurl like those of the Kilkenny style just with the addition of a larger bás like those of the Cork style hurls.

henry shefflin used a 37 when he started in 2000 but he uses a 34 now

beggars_bush

premierstone wrote: »

Two things from this thread that concern me, firstly there is no ideal length for a hurl it is an individual preference and trial and error is the only way to discover the ideal length for you.

Also on the last post, there are many many top class hurlers that hold the hurl in what is perceived as incorrect or 'cack handed' but again if the player is comfortable with that grip they can be every bit as successfull as somone who grips it in an orthodox fashion.

Not true

Twiceasnice97

beggars_bush wrote: »

Not true

i will be very interested to see if he can name the players concerned

citykat

premierstone wrote: »

Two things from this thread that concern me, firstly there is no ideal length for a hurl it is an individual preference and trial and error is the only way to discover the ideal length for you.

Also on the last post, there are many many top class hurlers that hold the hurl in what is perceived as incorrect or 'cack handed' but again if the player is comfortable with that grip they can be every bit as successfull as somone who grips it in an orthodox fashion.

Agree on the first point. Not on the second. Walter Walsh is a case in point of a hurler who wasn't shown early enough how to hold a hurl properly. He is quite adept at switching grips prior to striking but this has to be a hindrance to him at times.

citykat

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Hi all,just wondering are Hurling Bas sizes larger than they were say 10 or 20 years ago or are they different sizes in different counties?. Am from up West but not from a Hurling area,Was on a trip down the country and bought a Hurl in 'Hurling Depot' in Kilkenny to puck around with the young lad at home,was poking around in the garage and came across a hurl I had in college back in late 90's,quite a difference in size of bas!,didnt ask the man in Hurling Depot for a goalkeepers hurl so I presume the one he sold me is an outfield players hurl,he seemed to be very knowledgeable man.
Amnt the best on computer will try to upload pics of both,new hurl is the clean looking one,old one made in Kilmeaden.
thanks for any replies,
B.L.

This shop is for tourists (i.e. foreign) and wouldn't be where i'd buy a hurl. They sell hurls with a large Bas to make it easier for said individuals to hit balls. If you want a decent hurl you're better off going direct to the hurl maker themselves. What did you pay for the hurl BTW? Last time i checked they were expensive ca. 35€.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

henry shefflin used a 37 when he started in 2000 but he uses a 34 now

I'm fairly sure that this is incorrect, and that he still uses at least a 36'' hurl

premierstone

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

if you are talking about left hand on top and catching in the left hand then i would be interested to see you name them.

beggars_bush wrote: »

Not true

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

i will be very interested to see if he can name the players concerned

citykat wrote: »

Agree on the first point. Not on the second. Walter Walsh is a case in point of a hurler who wasn't shown early enough how to hold a hurl properly. He is quite adept at switching grips prior to striking but this has to be a hindrance to him at times.

There are plenty and have been plenty down the years, from my own county the most famous been Jimmy Doyle, more recently Pat Fox, Lar Corbett and Brendan Cummins. Aidan Fogarty, Walter Walsh, Gary Kirby and Damien Hayes are other examples off the top of my head and Ronan Curran switches grip based on which side the ball is coming to him at. The Galway and Offaly teams of the 80's was littered with them for some reason.

Twiceasnice97

premierstone wrote: »

There are plenty and have been plenty down the years, from my own county the most famous been Jimmy Doyle, more recently Pat Fox, Lar Corbett and Brendan Cummins. Aidan Fogarty, Walter Walsh, Gary Kirby and Damien Hayes are other examples off the top of my head and Ronan Curran switches grip based on which side the ball is coming to him at. The Galway and Offaly teams of the 80's was littered with them for some reason.

jimmy doyle pat fox lar corbett and brendan cummins do not hurl in the same way as aidan fogarty walter walsh and gary kirby.
they had their left on top and caught the ball in their right hand. walsh and fogarty have their left on top and catch in their left which makes it almost impossible to hit the ball off their left side. gary kirby the same. The two styles are fundamentally different
players who hurl that way cannot be run of the mill in other areas. fogarty is exceptionally fast walsh is a mobile giant and kirby was a deadly free taker. without those attributes none of them would have got anywhere.
there are hundreds of kids the length and breadth of the country hurling that way yet there are only three players walsh fogarty and rob o`shea from cork i think who hurl that way in an intercounty squad
thats not a coincidence. Any coach who does not drive kids insane correcting it is not doing their job.

ronan curran and damien hayes are orthodox hurlers

nice_guy80

There are far more kids who never develop properly as players because of the 'cack handed' grip.

I've seen it first hand.
Our club was letting kids away with it for years through bad coaching and we never had a good crop of hurlers come through capable of beating other clubs at the same level. It was endemic all the way up to adult.

It was only when we sorted out the coaching and got the kids from age 5/6 holding the hurley correctly that we've turned around our underage system and now regularly beat much bigger clubs than us through the quality of our players.

premierstone

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

jimmy doyle pat fox lar corbett and brendan cummins do not hurl in the same way as aidan fogarty walter walsh and gary kirby.
they had their left on top and caught the ball in their right hand. walsh and fogarty have their left on top and catch in their left which makes it almost impossible to hit the ball off their left side. gary kirby the same. The two styles are fundamentally different
players who hurl that way cannot be run of the mill in other areas. fogarty is exceptionally fast walsh is a mobile giant and kirby was a deadly free taker. without those attributes none of them would have got anywhere.
there are hundreds of kids the length and breadth of the country hurling that way yet there are only three players walsh fogarty and rob o`shea from cork i think who hurl that way in an intercounty squad
thats not a coincidence. Any coach who does not drive kids insane correcting it is not doing their job.

ronan curran and damien hayes are orthodox hurlers

Try reading the post I was replying to originally before jumping in with your two feet like a good lad!

rebel girl 15

nice_guy80 wrote: »

There are far more kids who never develop properly as players because of the 'cack handed' grip.

I've seen it first hand.
Our club was letting kids away with it for years through bad coaching and we never had a good crop of hurlers come through capable of beating other clubs at the same level. It was endemic all the way up to adult.

It was only when we sorted out the coaching and got the kids from age 5/6 holding the hurley correctly that we've turned around our underage system and now regularly beat much bigger clubs than us through the quality of our players.

Getting the kids to hold the hurley correct and that the hurley is the correct size for them, its not this oh it has to be up to your hip, its not - your post earlier was super illustration of the correct way to size a hurley, especially for children and teenagers.

I've seen it in picking under 13 development squads, most of the players choosen had an orthodox grip and had the skills to a much higher quality than those with an incorrect grip

Bleating Lamb

citykat wrote: »

This shop is for tourists (i.e. foreign) and wouldn't be where i'd buy a hurl. They sell hurls with a large Bas to make it easier for said individuals to hit balls. If you want a decent hurl you're better off going direct to the hurl maker themselves. What did you pay for the hurl BTW? Last time i checked they were expensive ca. 35€.

Ya,tbh I hadn't played any hurling since leaving college as there is no hurling club in my area so kinda thought hurl sounded a bit dear but at same time had no recent judgement to go by of buying one,paid 35 euro.Was dead happy pucking around with it with young lad and was only interested then in size of Bas question when I compared it to my rediscovered old hurl.I'd say yer man in shop is well able to talk the talk alright:).What would club players typically pay for a hurl as matter of interest?.

citykat

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Ya,tbh I hadn't played any hurling since leaving college as there is no hurling club in my area so kinda thought hurl sounded a bit dear but at same time had no recent judgement to go by of buying one,paid 35 euro.Was dead happy pucking around with it with young lad and was only interested then in size of Bas question when I compared it to my rediscovered old hurl.I'd say yer man in shop is well able to talk the talk alright:).What would club players typically pay for a hurl as matter of interest?.

Depends. If you're buying a single hurl it'll cost you a bit more than if you're buying in bulk. Most clubs would be buying by the dozen and can thus pick up a good discount. Like I said if I was looking for a hurl I'd go straight to the maker as they normally have a decent enough range. Price obviously depends on size and spec and who you get it off. Some makers are more popular and charge a premium but you should pick one up for around €25.

Formosa

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

jimmy doyle pat fox lar corbett and brendan cummins do not hurl in the same way as aidan fogarty walter walsh and gary kirby.
they had their left on top and caught the ball in their right hand. walsh and fogarty have their left on top and catch in their left which makes it almost impossible to hit the ball off their left side. gary kirby the same.

I think Kevin Hennessy was also cack handed in the fogarty-walsh-kirby mould?

Can't think off hand of any other high profile ones.

EIRE1922

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

henry shefflin used a 37 when he started in 2000 but he uses a 34 now

No he still uses a 37" and the odd 36".

EIRE1922

premierstone wrote: »

There are plenty and have been plenty down the years, from my own county the most famous been Jimmy Doyle, more recently Pat Fox, Lar Corbett and Brendan Cummins. Aidan Fogarty, Walter Walsh, Gary Kirby and Damien Hayes are other examples off the top of my head and Ronan Curran switches grip based on which side the ball is coming to him at. The Galway and Offaly teams of the 80's was littered with them for some reason.

Jason Ford from Tipperary has an akward grip. He missed about 7 frees last night against Clare because I reckon of his change of grip mid way through his frees and it seem to sometimes effect his striking rate.

EIRE1922

premierstone wrote: »

Two things from this thread that concern me, firstly there is no ideal length for a hurl it is an individual preference and trial and error is the only way to discover the ideal length for you.

The length of hurl you will nornally choose is usually influenced by your height though, but yes that is not always the case. It often generally comes down to your own sheer personal preference of what size, weight and style of hurl you wish to and you feel most comfortable using at the end of the day.

Some smaller players like to use 35" or 36" hurls and some taller players prefer very long hurls of 37" and even the odd rare 38". However, some tall players also prefer the slightly smaller sized hurls of 33" - 34".

In the main most adult players will use a 34", 35" and 36" inch hurl and generally it is what suits their height being an adult.

In measuring: you place the top of the hurl at the side and towards the top of your hip bone. So height will be a key factor in the correct length of hurl you should use and that would be recommended by any good hurley maker!

There is also other wrist method:

http://www.lashgoleor.ie/hurls_for_sale/measurement_guide.html

As I already mentioned Henry Shefflin 6'3 prefers to use a 37" and Joe Rabbitte 6'4 preferred a 32"/33" inch, certainly later in his career.

Walter Walsh, Joe Canning, Martin Comerford, Setanta and Aiske O'Halpin, all tall players use/used 36" hurls which most players from 5'10-6'4/5' generally like using.

Pixel Eater

I know I'm very late to this thread but I wondering the exact thing myself and when I goggled it this was the first thing that came up.

GAA regulations stipulate that widest point, the bas of the hurley must not be more than 13cm. A lot of hurls these days seem massive and much bigger than that, are a lot of hurls now technically illegal?

zetecescort

Yes, along with a lot of helmets that have bars removed from the face guards.

Pixel Eater

That's pretty slack enforcement by the GAA. I actually thing hurling, as great as it currently is, would improve if there was more ground based action.

nice_guy80

zetecescort wrote: »

Yes, along with a lot of helmets that have bars removed from the face guards.

time for a few referees to enforce the rules

any helmet altered in any way is not allowed to be used

Gentleman Off The Pitch

I'd love if the GAA enforced rules on hurl sizes, something so fundamental to the game shouldn't be allow to vary some much nor evolve so quickly in my opinion.

As an example some of the sticks used by Cork players like Horgan are more like mandolins than hurls

Deskjockey

citykat wrote: »

This shop is for tourists (i.e. foreign) and wouldn't be where i'd buy a hurl. They sell hurls with a large Bas to make it easier for said individuals to hit balls. If you want a decent hurl you're better off going direct to the hurl maker themselves. What did you pay for the hurl BTW? Last time i checked they were expensive ca. 35€.

Realise this post is a year old, but in fairness to the Hurley Depot shop on John St in Kilkenny, I think they do a good job and offer a selection of Hurleys from different producers that you can walk away with there and then. I bought two kids hurleys there yesterday that cost €50 including two grips. Their helmets seem v expensive though compared to the ones you get from the club.

Last time I went to Star Hurleys on Patrick St (last year), I had to wait over 2 weeks to get two kids hurleys made. They even suggested that I go to the Hurley Depot instead!

Mahogany Gaspipe

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

I'd love if the GAA enforced rules on hurl sizes, something so fundamental to the game shouldn't be allow to vary some much nor evolve so quickly in my opinion.

As an example some of the sticks used by Cork players like Horgan are more like mandolins than hurls

I dread that such enforcement of regulations will be evoked. Its great to hear that regional variations still exist; snuffing them out and ensuring that everyone conforms to the same template would be a sad day.

Besides any county team is free to use whichever county style of hurl they wish; it still wont help overcoming Kilkenny or Tipp, mores the pity.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Mahogany Gaspipe wrote: »

I dread that such enforcement of regulations will be evoked. Its great to hear that regional variations still exist; snuffing them out and ensuring that everyone conforms to the same template would be a sad day.

Besides any county team is free to use whichever county style of hurl they wish; it still wont help overcoming Kilkenny or Tipp, mores the pity.

I know what you mean, but couldn't we have variations within some well defined limits?

I know it's taking it to the extreme, but say hurls keep getting smaller and wider and we end up with hurls almost unrecognisable to what they used to be, or say for example a team develops a possession based style of play involving very small wide hurls, where the majority of their striking is done with one hand, that could be regarded as simply being evolution of the sport, but at what stage does it stop being hurling as we know it?

Do we want control such evolution or simply let it happen? While I agree the regional variations in hurls is not something to eradicated, I think not having some enforcement of limits on something so central to the sport is quite strange

Pixel Eater

But rules are rules and the size of size and shape of a hurley is a fundamental aspect of the game and should be treated as such. Regional variations are fine within the accepted legal limit. Counties can't alter the the amount of steps or any other rule to suit their game. Hurling is almost unrecognisable from the game it was even a few decades ago.

nice_guy80

Pixel Eater wrote: »

But rules are rules and the size of size and shape of a hurley is a fundamental aspect of the game and should be treated as such. Regional variations are fine within the accepted legal limit. Counties can't alter the the amount of steps or any other rule to suit their game. Hurling is almost unrecognisable from the game it was even a few decades ago.

Some counties have altered the number of steps allowed.
Has been going on for years

Pixel Eater

Interesting graph here I saw on Wikipedia. Pretty much parallels the increased size of the hurleys to the amount of points scored.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Hurling_Scoring.png

Definitely believe that the smaller bas would help hurling; more grounded based play would make it more interesting while still having plenty of good scores. Even could help reduce the sizable gap between some teams.

zetecescort

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Interesting graph here I saw on Wikipedia. Pretty much parallels the increased size of the hurleys to the amount of points scored.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Hurling_Scoring.png

Definitely believe that the smaller bas would help hurling; more grounded based play would make it more interesting while still having plenty of good scores. Even could help reduce the sizable gap between some teams.

lighter more consistent sliotars would have a lot to do with that too. lads scoring from inside their own half at their ease nowadays