Dear New Zealand....

Neil3030

My name is Neil, I'm Irish and, full disclosure, I hate you. I've always envied you, but since the match we're still not talking about it's now full on hatred. Sorry.

Anyway with that out of the way, I had an idea. Increasing spending power of French and English clubs will likely result in a lot of your S15 players being poached, and the increasing Celtic emphasis on bargain hunting will also result in ITM players becoming fair game. The flight of the top tier players will likely be curbed by international incentives, but the weakening rugby ecosystem can't be good for them either.

You are ultimately victims of your own developmental proficiency, producing a bottleneck of talent behind limited spots of high earning potential - limited by unavoidable economic constraints. This plays into the hands of moneybag colonialists who cash in on all your hard development work.

My proposal is therefore thus. Your youth, schools and development structures impart a rugby education that is the envy of the world. An education that affords individuals a trade and the opportunity to earn a very good living abroad. And for the most part, your rugby eco system is not seeing a full return for its investment. So start treating this tutelage as a service. Register all clubs/schools worth their crust to some manner of central database, and charge individuals for being trained at these institutions. Though you conditionally defer or waive payment as follows:

- Anyone who stays in New Zealand for their entire career never pays a cent.
- Anyone who never earns a professional income from Rugby, home or abroad, (above some nominal threshold) never pays a cent.

This leaves individuals who earn a living above the nominal threshold outside of New Zealand liable to pay for their training. I'm not entirely sure what price to put on it, but somewhere in the region of NZ$500,000 seems reasonable.

Anyway there's my idea to save your domestic game by ensuring that the more players who leave, the more funds become available to pay the cohort who stay. I offer this to you, almost gratis; should you implement the strategy, all I ask for in return is a sample of Brad Thorn's DNA, all of Dan Carter's children and that Keven Mealamu be publicly executed, preferably involving fire - him and the other fella (you know damn well what I'm talking about).

I look forward to hearing from you,
Neil.

thomond2006

In reply to you Neil, the NZRU have released the following statement:

errlloyd

I've always wondered if NZ's policy of not picking overseas players actually increases their value. You get to buy the player outright. Full ownership.

thomond2006

errlloyd wrote: »

I've always wondered if NZ's policy of not picking overseas players actually increases their value. You get to buy the player outright. Full ownership.

It almost certainly does.

Argentinian internationals are finding it more difficult to get contracts in Europe now because of their international duties.

B0X

$500,000 is too low... should be $500,000,000, that'll show em.

Anyway if we are really talking about possible schemes I've a feeling it would be illegal to tie youths into something like this. You're also essentially removing their right to fairly ply their abroad without incurring fees which would probably also be challenged in court. The most effective one would be to continue with the tax break gig (Has that been challenged in the EU court yet?)

Yeah_Right

B0X wrote: »

$500,000 is too low... should be $500,000,000, that'll show em.

Anyway if we are really talking about possible schemes I've a feeling it would be illegal to tie youths into something like this. You're also essentially removing their right to fairly ply their abroad without incurring fees which would probably also be challenged in court. The most effective one would be to continue with the tax break gig (Has that been challenged in the EU court yet?)

its pretty much like the student loan scheme NZ has for university. Just extend it to rugby.

B0X

Yeah_Right wrote: »

its pretty much like the student loan scheme NZ has for university. Just extend it to rugby.

Student loans are registered to adults surely? Roping kids in at 12 years old would be a no go.

Neil3030

B0X wrote: »

$500,000 is too low... should be $500,000,000, that'll show em.

Anyway if we are really talking about possible schemes I've a feeling it would be illegal to tie youths into something like this. You're also essentially removing their right to fairly ply their abroad without incurring fees which would probably also be challenged in court. The most effective one would be to continue with the tax break gig (Has that been challenged in the EU court yet?)

I'd be pretty sure a New Zealand court would side with a scheme that served to protect the investment of their union and the strength of their domestic game.

Even if they spun it in the opposite way, that the training should be repayed by services to New Zealand rugby, and where players emigrate, they must offer monetary compensation instead.

Nobody is looking to restrict anyone's movement abroad, just for the union to get their money back for the education they give players.

Yeah_Right

B0X wrote: »

Student loans are registered to adults surely? Roping kids in at 12 years old would be a no go.

12 might be a bit young. Maybe from 15. After all 16 and 17 year old kids can get student loans.

Podge_irl

It's an interesting idea.

Doesn't football have some kind of system were when a player is sold some of the proceeds go to the club that trained him?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Could it not be done the same way Football does it that you have to pay compensation to the players academy/school when you sign him if he is under 23

B0X wrote: »

The most effective one would be to continue with the tax break gig (Has that been challenged in the EU court yet?)

Yes players who have played in Ireland and retire in the EU get 40% of the tax back on their ten highest paid years in Ireland.

Biggest winner, Peter Stringer.

ArmaniJeanss

Workers go to college to train in a trade, can't find work at home due to limited places, forced to emigrate to make a living, original country tries to implement a tax regime on these emigrants.
Its a bit warped really, you wouldn't try to implement such a scheme for bricklayers or nurses.

Neil3030

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Workers go to college to train in a trade, can't find work at home due to limited places, forced to emigrate to make a living, original country tries to implement a tax regime on these emigrants.
Its a bit warped really, you wouldn't try to implement such a scheme for bricklayers or nurses.

To a degree, but education isn't just about getting a job even though the concept is becoming increasingly more utilitarian.

I'd liken the proposed scheme more to a company in one country training a worker, offering them a decent living in line with the market rate for that country, but a foreign company offering more. Should the worker accept the foreign deal, they repay their former employer for training them.

justsomebloke

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'd be pretty sure a New Zealand court would side with a scheme that served to protect the investment of their union and the strength of their domestic game.

Have you any precedent what so ever to say they would?

Neil3030 wrote: »

Even if they spun it in the opposite way, that the training should be repayed by services to New Zealand rugby, and where players emigrate, they must offer monetary compensation instead.

So with the ever increasing obesity epidemic you want to tie a group of school kids who are looking for a bit of exercise into a financial commitment that if they ever emigrate they can no longer play the sport recreationally without fear of being held accountable for $500,000?

Neil3030 wrote: »

Nobody is looking to restrict anyone's movement abroad, just for the union to get their money back for the education they give players.

Ah here, the people are paying back the money by going to games buying merchandising and paying for TV.

This would do nothing but further hurt the game

Neil3030

justsomebloke wrote: »

Have you any precedent what so ever to say they would?

No it's just an opinion; though considering that their central bank had a contingency for the economic effects of them not winning the last world cup, I'd be quietly confident.

So with the ever increasing obesity epidemic you want to tie a group of school kids who are looking for a bit of exercise into a financial commitment that if they ever emigrate they can no longer play the sport recreationally without fear of being held accountable for $500,000?

Read my post. Recreational players would be exempt.

Ah here, the people are paying back the money by going to games buying merchandising and paying for TV.

This would do nothing but further hurt the game

Exactly, and the more players that leave, the less people go to games and the less merchandising gets sold. Further, a system where the union invests in years of developing a player, only for the player to leave once competent, benefiting only himself and a foreign employer, is very unfair on the union and they should look at ways of evening things out.

Yeah_Right

justsomebloke wrote: »

So with the ever increasing obesity epidemic you want to tie a group of school kids who are looking for a bit of exercise into a financial commitment that if they ever emigrate they can no longer play the sport recreationally without fear of being held accountable for $500,000?

But then they would be fat and lazy in another country and wouldn't NZs problem

sydthebeat

Neil3030 wrote: »

Further, a system where the union invests in years of developing a player, only for the player to leave once competent, benefiting only himself and a foreign employer, is very unfair on the union and they should look at ways of evening things out.

without deliberately getting off topic... but the above is basically exactly the problem that exists in our nursing colleges currently.
We are training to export, because our home industry is not attractive enough.

we of course have freedom of movement laws, ive no idea what NZ has....