ZOE coming to Ireland

September1

According to this single article:
http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/features/silent-one-arrived-the-zoe-electric-car-1-6027600

ZOE is now offered by Renault in Ireland for 17.490 for basic version. It does sound quite expensive considering that it already include SEAI grant.

It seems there is no mention of it on Renault site.

naughtysmurf

Looks well IMO, the pricing is good. I don't like the whole battery rental / lease thing, I'll watch with interest though

Atlantic Dawn

Good 200km range on it compared to other electric vehicles, downside is you have to rent the battery, not sure on the monthly cost of that, in the UK it's £70 a month, probably be ripped off here by a €150 a month charge.

jackofalltrades

From Irish Times

The all-electric supermini, with a claimed range of up to 150km before recharging, starts at €17,490, with the monthly lease on the battery beginning at €49 based on an annual mileage of less than 5,000km. Increase the mileage and the monthly costs increase.

So for €600 a year you get 5000 km.
Where as the petrol version of the Clio would need €426 worth of fuel to do the same mileage.(5.5 L/100 KM @ €1.55 a litre for 5000KM = €426)

So going for the petrol will save me €174 a year and €2500 on the original purchase price.

If my calculations are right it doesn't seem to be a great deal.

Oafley Jones

jackofalltrades wrote: »

From Irish Times



So for €600 a year you get 5000 km.
Where as the petrol version of the Clio would need €426 worth of fuel to do the same mileage.(5.5 L/100 KM @ €1.55 a litre for 5000KM = €426)

So going for the petrol will save me €174 a year and €2500 on the original purchase price.

If my calculations are right it doesn't seem to be a great deal.

Don't forget the charging cost.

naughtysmurf

Monthly lease on the battery beginning at €49 based on an annual mileage of less than 5,000km. Increase the mileage and the monthly costs increase.

Just lost interest

keithclancy

Are you joking .... low tax .. come on ..... commmmee onnn ...

I wouldn't buy it

noelf

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Monthly lease on the battery beginning at €49 based on an annual mileage of less than 5,000km. Increase the mileage and the monthly costs increase.

Just lost interest

E79 for 12500 km ..

naughtysmurf

noelf wrote: »

E79 for 12500 km ..

Like Jackofalltrades says, may as well or be better off going for the Clio. Tend to keep our cars for 8yrs = Extra €7584 on battery rental on top of purchase price plus I just have an issue with renting batteries full stop. I didn't have to rent the engine on my current car

loinnsigh

The Zoe looks a bit nicer than the Fluence ZE but it's still afflicted with the battery rental nastiness.

I reckon Renault are killing their chances of selling EVs in Ireland with the whole battery rental thing. I would have thought they might have learned a lesson or two after failing to sell any Fluence ZE's in Ireland. I just don't think it sits well with people - one of the main reasons I bought a Nissan LEAF is the huge reduction in fuel costs. When you have to factor in battery rental that benefit is _significantly_ diminished. It's a pity - I'd like to see another EV getting some traction in the Irish market, but I don't think the Zoe is it.

I do about 18,000km/yr. Judging by the UK website you can expect at least €120 rental for 19000km/yr mileage (assuming similar rental rates in Ireland). So €11520 for 8 years rental. For my mileage (~18000km/yr) even the entry-level Zoe would work out more expensive than the top-of-the-range SVE Leaf as soon as you factor in battery rental over 8yrs.

I kept wondering what the delay was with the Zoe and I think it had to with the granny cable and being able to charge it below 2kw.

Depending on what you want the Zoe is a high spec car and if you look at the diesel clio automatic it costs about 21-22k ? + the Zoe has remote activation of heat and a/c that costs at least another 1000 on the continent where a parking heater is offered.

I worked it out that the Zoe (and it's in previous threads ) still works out a bit cheaper than a real 50 mpg calculated at the pump clio, including electricity (excluding free charge point leccy )the electric zoe isn't more expensive + you got cheaper maintenance.

Don't be afraid of the battery rental, with the Leaf you're paying for the battery and can not replace it when it becomes useless after several years.

As A high mileage driver the Zoe and battery rental would actually work out the better deal for me as with the Leaf, you're not allowed to install a new battery. It's especially attractive for 2nd hand buyers and especially 2nd hand buyers that do high mileage.

Irish people are anti lease/rent it's as bad as the obsession with owning property.

The range won't be that much better than the Leaf and it's a smaller car.

The best thing about zoe is the on board 44 kw charger the most powerful in the world built into any e.v.

Most ESB charge points are 22 kw and capable of charging Zoe in under an hour compared to 7-8 for the MK I Leaf with 3.3kw charger or MK 1.5 Leaf with 3.3 kw charger or 4 hrs or under for the MK 1.5 Leaf with 6.6 kw charger, Of course Zoe can charge from the Newest fast charge points that have 44 kw a/c which are very few, but this is the best thing about zoe.

Take the Leaf/Zoe for a test drive and you may like them and that alone may be the deciding factor, most people who own electric don't like going back !

BMJD

the rental approach is utterly stupid, it might make some sense if the car was cheap to buy in the first place but it isn't!

loinnsigh

loinnsigh wrote: »

one of the main reasons I bought a Nissan LEAF is the huge reduction in fuel costs. When you have to factor in battery rental that benefit is _significantly_ diminished. It's a pity - I'd like to see another EV getting some traction in the Irish market, but I don't think the Zoe is it.

I do about 18,000km/yr. Judging by the UK website you can expect at least €120 rental for 19000km/yr mileage (assuming similar rental rates in Ireland). So €11520 for 8 years rental. For my mileage (~18000km/yr) even the entry-level Zoe would work out more expensive than the top-of-the-range SVE Leaf as soon as you factor in battery rental over 8yrs.

The leaf is around 5K cheaper to buy without the battery, I expect the Zoe the same.

You're paying for it rent or buying either way.

According to some very early data coming in, the Leaf will loose 20% capacity after 100,000 miles which is actually pretty good.

Having said that this does not mean the Zoe battery won't travel 150K miles before a 20% loss or the I3/E-Golf the same or more.

Renault will install a brand new battery at 75% compared to Nissan Repairing the Leaf to only ever hold around 70%.

For low mileage drivers it won't matter.

You can't currently rent the Leaf battery though I think it's wise for high mileage drivers.

BMJD

BMJD wrote: »

the rental approach is utterly stupid, it might make some sense if the car was cheap to buy in the first place but it isn't!

It still works out a bit cheaper than the Diesel clio, getting about 50 mpg per tank. If someone can match the claimed 90 mpg Renault claim on the very latest cliop then it would be more expensive,.

It would be good to have the option either way, as I say it's wise if you're a high mileage driver and will keep the car 5 years or more or those who buy 2nd hand and do high mileage.

For low mileage drivers it doesn't matter then they can buy the Leaf for which you're paying for the battery anyway so it costs the same.

It's actually not the first time we read a Zoe coming to Ireland story though ?

September1

I do not think leasing car and battery would be bad. But Renault wants customers to take all risks of owning and all cost of renting at same time. Think about second hand value of those cars, trying to sell EV would not be easy anyway as all exotics go, but now trying to sell EV without battery would be nearly impossible. Things hard to sell usual have to sell cheap so first owner gets hit even more. Make already restricted by range vehicle even more restricted by lease, that is IMVHO terrible marketing idea.

@60

Depends, the customer should decide.

We already know the Leaf battery costs an extra 5,000 UK pounds around 6k euro's on top of the purchase price.

93 pounds a month over 3 years for 12K miles a year so what would that be for 20-25 K miles ?

I stand to be corrected but as far as I can see the excess mileage is 12 pence per mile in the U.K. = 14 cent

I work that out as 1100 excess total or 33 euro's PM.

So you might be better off going with 12,000 miles and paying the excess ?

I work the total out as 146 PM over 3 years = 5,256 over 5 years = 8,760 Euro's.

19,290 for the top spec + 8,760 (excess) = 28,050 + maybe 600 =total 31 K or 3 k over 5 years for leccy less if you use the free public charging.

A 1.6 golf tdi dsg highline will cost 29 K + you got more maintenance, + over 20K a year which is what the calculations above are based on you'll pay the guts of 2500-3000 grand for diesel over 5 years =15K costing 44,000 excluding maintenance over 100,k miles. higher motor tax etc.

The Clio R-Link costs 22,690 for the 1.5 dci 90 hp add €2200 for 1500 odd litres of diesel (that's for 60 mpg per tank, some will get more others less )

2200 over 5 years 100 K miles costs total of, €33,690. for the Clio, @60 mpg per tank if you can achieve that.

So as you can see the rental actually works out cheaper than the ICE Clio by about 2k and much cheaper than the Golf, and this is before you add in maintenance and motor tax differences.

I know a lot of people would rather have the Diesel if there is not as much of an incentive, personally I would probably give the Zoe a go even over the Golf (diesel) because the Golf is a lot more expensive, I know it's a different league and all, but I think the little Zoe has potential and it does well on the Continent where they're not so obsessed with owning everything.

If you're a high mileage driver like me then the rental may be a good option. There is a leaf on the U.K E-bay with 64-66 K miles can't rem exactly and still has all 12 battery bars, my guess it wasn't abused by fast charging all the time to get free electricity. What the exact battery loss is anyone's guess.

The I3 will start around 33K and the Golf not far behind, so if you look at it like that the Zoe would cost similar to the I3 which would be a lot more fun to drive ? can someone get the exact cost of the I3 ? I found reference in the independent, the Zoe will still have the best charger of all electric cars currently available.

The I3 probably at 33k is the basic spec , anyway when you look at it like this it does make the Zoe look very expensive, I'd probably have the E-Golf or I3 over the Zoe. Most people who buy new won't need to worry about the battery anyway. except maybe the high mileage drivers. It would make the Zoe more expensive than the Leaf at my mileage.

All the rental figures for the Zoe are based on U.K prices.

September1

Deleted User wrote: »

We already know the Leaf battery costs an extra 5,000 UK pounds around 6k euro's on top of the purchase price.

I work the total out as 146 PM over 3 years = 5,256 over 5 years = 8,760 Euro's.

Mad_Lad we know that:
a) battery is 5k extra
b) you would pay back battery in 3 years
c) after 3 years battery capacity is still good in our climate
we can conclude that battery rental deal is crap in our climate.



However as someone else mentioned it is like renting engine in a car, you cannot just remove it and you cannot just drive with Renault blessing. This is worst of two worlds, this is terrible idea. It all started when Better Place option of fast switching batteries was on the table, that would make rental have at least a single advantage. Why they just not lease car + battery together?

jackofalltrades

Deleted User wrote: »

Depending on what you want the Zoe is a high spec car and if you look at the diesel clio automatic it costs about 21-22k ?

After having a quick look on carzone.ie, it seems that most Clio buyers(2011-2014) want a petrol engined car (80+%).
With about a third opting for the higher spec. version with air conditioning.
I couldn't find any automatics on the website.

So @ 12,500 KM's per annum.

Clio 1.2 petrol = €1065 in fuel
Zoe = €948 + charging at home costs(no real clue what this works out as)

So for the majority of owners they're spending an extra €80 in fuel and €150 in motor tax a year. €230 in total.
But they're saving €2500 on the purchase cost or €1200 if they go for the higher spec car.

If you're a diesel, automatic driver it could make sense, but it could be a bit of a leap for the average Clio driver.

It's hard to know just who Renault are marketing this car towards.

September1

September1 wrote: »

Mad_Lad we know that:
a) battery is 5k extra
b) you would pay back battery in 3 years
c) after 3 years battery capacity is still good in our climate
we can conclude that battery rental deal is crap in our climate.

Sure for the average mileage driver the Leaf will last a long time. If they don't use the fast charger excessively to the point it gets too hot then yes it will last many years.

For the high mileage driver who may need to use the fast charger so much then it would be a good idea to rent the battery.

It's unknown if the Zoe battery will last as long, it could last even longer to begin with, I guess it's mainly the Unknown your paying for.

Still for 20K miles a year over 5 years the Zoe works out about 31K including electricity compared to 33 K for the I3 + electricity add 3k (for 5 years) for the leccy then it comes to €36,500 for the I3 total. 5 k more for the I3 doesn't sound bad.

A leaf can be bought in the U.K for 14-15 K for a 2011 with 3K miles to 30K miles.

jackofalltrades

jackofalltrades wrote: »

After having a quick look on carzone.ie, it seems that most Clio buyers(2011-2014) want a petrol engined car (80+%).
With about a third opting for the higher spec. version with air conditioning.
I couldn't find any automatics on the website.

So @ 12,500 KM's per annum.

Clio 1.2 petrol = €1065 in fuel
Zoe = €948 + charging at home costs(no real clue what this works out as)

So for the majority of owners they're spending an extra €80 in fuel and €150 in motor tax a year. €230 in total.
But they're saving €2500 on the purchase cost or €1200 if they go for the higher spec car.

If you're a diesel, automatic driver it could make sense, but it could be a bit of a leap for the average Clio driver.

It's hard to know just who Renault are marketing this car towards.

It will cost 1,367 € for 12,500 kms @ 40 mpg @ 1.55 per litre. V about 193 Euro's for Leccy excluding free public charger use.

There's no automatics because the dealers don't buy them in order to keep the price as low as possible.

True I've just seen the stats 84% of all clios, 884 total sales 2014 are petrol so far that is interesting.

12,500 kms ? I thought that was miles was the average ?

jackofalltrades

Deleted User wrote: »

It will cost 1,367 € for 12,500 kms @ 40 mpg @ 1.55 per litre. V about 193 Euro's for Leccy excluding free public charger use.

So spiltting the difference and calling it 45mpg, and using your charging cost figure, the petrol driver is paying €75 more a year.

There's no automatics because the dealers don't buy them in order to keep the price as low as possible.

I know, I was just showing that there doesn't seem to be any demand for automatic Clio's, buy showing that there were none available second hand.

12,500 kms ? I thought that was miles was the average ?

It's the highest milleage I could find for battery leasing costs.

jackofalltrades

jackofalltrades wrote: »

So spiltting the difference and calling it 45mpg, and using your charging cost figure, the petrol driver is paying €75 more a year.
I know, I was just showing that there doesn't seem to be any demand for automatic Clio's, buy showing that there were none available second hand.

It's the highest milleage I could find for battery leasing costs.

You must mean 12,500 miles not kms, that's only 7,700 miles.

I'd still buy a 2011-12 Leaf quicker than the Zoe, as they are going for a good bargain in the U.K.

19K for the top spec one seems excessive, wouldn't be too bad without the rental.

jackofalltrades

Yes 12,500 KMs.
I can't find a leasing figure for higher than 12,500 KM per annum.

Oafley Jones

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Yes 12,500 KMs.
I can't find a leasing figure for higher than 12,500 KM per annum.

The Zoe is a mystery to me. You've all the disadvantages of electric without the USP of "free motoring". 50 euro for 5,000 sounds awful value. It's not far off what it costs me in petrol in my v6. Watching the secondhand value of these is going to be interesting.

jackofalltrades

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Yes 12,500 KMs.
I can't find a leasing figure for higher than 12,500 KM per annum.

I don't know where you're looking ? there's no reference to Zoe on the Renault ireland site.

jackofalltrades

http://www.completecar.ie/testdrives/article/Renault/null/Zoe/720/3611

That €49 a month battery rental is only applicable if you sign up to cover fewer than 5,000km a year. If you want to do as many as 12,500km annually, then the battery rental goes up to €79.

Oafley Jones

Oafley Jones wrote: »

The Zoe is a mystery to me. You've all the disadvantages of electric without the USP of "free motoring". 50 euro for 5,000 sounds awful value. It's not far off what it costs me in petrol in my v6. Watching the secondhand value of these is going to be interesting.

This isn't about saving money though ? no one buys new cars to save money be they electric or not.

However if buying new the electric will work out usually much, much cheaper.

The Leaf holds it's value well in Ireland.

14K € for a 2nd leaf in the U.K with low mileage. U.K isn't bad, excluding home evse install and transport, still it's not bad.

jackofalltrades

jackofalltrades wrote: »

http://www.completecar.ie/testdrives/article/Renault/null/Zoe/720/3611

Ah yeah, that's just what they quote not what's the max available.

Oafley Jones

Deleted User wrote: »

This isn't about saving money though ? no one buys new cars to save money be they electric or not.

Absolute Bollox, how many threads have there been on here with people buying in order to save a couple hundred euro on tax.

Oafley Jones

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Absolute Bollox, how many threads have there been on here with people buying in order to save a couple hundred euro on tax.

A lot, but that's to justify (in their own minds) them buying a new car.

They don't stop to think that they'll be paying thousands in vat and vrt. OK in the case of leccy you get 5K of vrt.

But in relation to the new EV you're saving money compared to a similar new ice and quiet a lot of money too.

Zoe does appear expensive, it will be interesting to see the take up of I3, E-Golf, Mercedes B class (Tesla drive train)