Children being taken to another country

magggiemay

Hi Folks,

Can anyone advise me on a major crisis that has hit my extended family. My brother's wife has decided that ,after 15 years of marriage and three children later that she wants to take the kids and go to her own country as she is not happy here anymore . She wants to have a career and she feels its her turn now . She comes from another European country that i would like not to mention on here . She has told my brother that he can come and see the kids maybe in the summer holidays or Christmas holidays but will not be staying with them . This is totally out of the blue and he is in complete shock. He is a fantastic father and does everything for his children . He comes home at the end of the day and has to face house work, laundry and cook a dinner. He has never complained , just says that his wife was never cut out for house work as she never had to do it growing up but is a good mother to the kids.
Can a parent just take these kids and go? They have Irish passports as they were all born here. He knows that once she gets back to her home he will rarely see the kids as he cannot afford to travel back and forth . It is heartbreaking to see him go through this. Is there a way of stopping her from taking the kids , he cannot find the kids passports anywhere and knows that she has them hidden and that has frightened him the most .

diveout

magggiemay wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Can anyone advise me on a major crisis that has hit my extended family. My brother's wife has decided that ,after 15 years of marriage and three children later that she wants to take the kids and go to her own country as she is not happy here anymore . She wants to have a career and she feels its her turn now . She comes from another European country that i would like not to mention on here . She has told my brother that he can come and see the kids maybe in the summer holidays or Christmas holidays but will not be staying with them . This is totally out of the blue and he is in complete shock. He is a fantastic father and does everything for his children . He comes home at the end of the day and has to face house work, laundry and cook a dinner. He has never complained , just says that his wife was never cut out for house work as she never had to do it growing up but is a good mother to the kids.
Can a parent just take these kids and go? They have Irish passports as they were all born here. He knows that once she gets back to her home he will rarely see the kids as he cannot afford to travel back and forth . It is heartbreaking to see him go through this. Is there a way of stopping her from taking the kids , he cannot find the kids passports anywhere and knows that she has them hidden and that has frightened him the most .

If he wants to stop her he can try through the courts and a judge will decide. If he does not try to stop her and she goes, he can have her charged with abduction and she will be forced to send the children back to Ireland. If it's the latter, the likely outcome would be that the children would come back on a plane by themselves as she would not want to face abduction charges and prison time.

Family court is an endless bottomless pit of a process and the game is whomever runs out of money first loses. Even if he wins, any chance of a good relationship via divorce will be destroyed by the court process. It could take years to recover and maybe never.

I would think very carefully if I were him about how to go about this. She might reminded or warned about the potential trauma on the children to have their lives revolutionised like this and to suddenly have their father, whom they have known all of their lives suddenly be a very part time father.

ABajaninCork

Can he not cancel the passports and get new ones issued? Of course, it doesn't mean that the mother can't get new passports from her own country, but worth a shot?

And I would also get a court order forbidding her to take the children out of the country without the father's consent. Act quickly!

free-2-air

Hi OP

I have been through this - I know exactly how he feels....and i would say the first thing that he needs to do is face up to the fact that when someone starts talking like this, there is a very real chance they will do it - thus he has a choice, doing something now despite the anger/violence/abuse it might generate ....or hope it doesn't happen and try and solve and even bigger and more expensive problem after the fact.

First things first, get him to go to a good family lawyer asap - let the lawyers know the urgency and he will be seen quickly. They can explain the options he has at his disposal and allow him make at informed decision.

He will probably be told something like the following
In the short term: As they are married he has guardianship already, but he might also be advised to seek an order preventing the child from being removed from the jurisdiction.....if his intention is to ensure that his kids remain in Ireland, it is much better (for kids and him) to seek this now, rather than to try after the fact to rely on the Hague Convention to secure their return.

In the medium term: He may be told that his wife could, notwithstanding the order that is in place, see 'leave to remove' the kids to her home country....and despite being married and having guardianship for the dad this can be a bit of a role of the dice.

It's not easy taking some you love/loved to court and the temptation may be to procrastinate and hope it blows over....it never does.

OP, get your relation to a good family lawyer...and maybe suggest they bring someone they trust with them as a bit of back up/note-taker/support ....that first session can be a bit over-whelming.

desbrook

The man can't find his children's passports first and foremost and his wife can't tell him where they are - so they are "lost or stolen ". First thing to do is report this to the guards and have them cancelled .

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=1709&Lang=1

magggiemay

Thanks so much to all that have replied , all advice given has been passed on.. My brother is at wits' end over this and is in total shock . I cant say too much on here as it could be possible that his wife may wind up reading this. Its very very upsetting for all concerned . The main problem is getting a good solicitor to represent him and the costing of it, as he will find it impossible to come up with the fees, trying to pay a mortgage to keep a roof over their head is hard enough as is. Please say a prayer this works out in his best interests but mostly in the best interests of his children. He is such an amazing father to this kids.

ABajaninCork

Your brother now needs to keep a cool head. Get hold of the forms needed to cancel the passports as they're now lost. That's the first thing.
Next - he needs the services of a good family law solicitor pronto. Most do not charge for an initial consultation.

I really hope this works out for you.

sparts

He still needs to see a solicitor very quickly, maybe his family could help with the solicitor fee

free-2-air

In this instance the lawyers fees are more of a priority than the mortgage - a house is just that, the lawyer is about securing his future with his kid.....and it sounds like he has family who can help out....while an extended legal action is expensive, a first consultation usually is not too expensive......and if she takes them from Ireland things are going to get very expensive, very quickly

desbrook

Typically a first consultation varies from free to 100euro. Worth every penny and there's no law that says you can't go to another solicitor to get a second opinion . Almost certainly you will get a carbon copy advice wise but it does make you feel more confident.