english milk

mattthetrasher

hi all as seen by many on todays farming indo irish co-ops are brining in cheap english milk.can anyone tell me is this milk being taken into account in the national quota scenario and in a situation where a co-ops shareholders and suppliers are paying for processing facilities are their members aware in advance that they are being shafted by their co-op by bringing in product in an effort to reduce prices paid to their supplier shareholders.rant over any thoughts or comments welcome.

sheebadog

mattthetrasher wrote: »

hi all as seen by many on todays farming indo irish co-ops are brining in cheap english milk.can anyone tell me is this milk being taken into account in the national quota scenario and in a situation where a co-ops shareholders and suppliers are paying for processing facilities are their members aware in advance that they are being shafted by their co-op by bringing in product in an effort to reduce prices paid to their supplier shareholders.rant over any thoughts or comments welcome.

That would be like double taxation. Surely it's taken into the English quota account?

mattthetrasher

maybe,but is it not what milk the co-ops process here.that aside i don't think its right to undermine our livelyhoods

frazzledhome

How are they undermining our livelihoods?

We built and own the factories so its good business to kero them full at all times getting as much from our stainless steel as possible.

The real joke is traceability. We will now have the jokers from Bord Bia inspecting us (thanks to Coveney) yet this milk has no traceability.

Findo not really a reliable source of info as they've proved many times since O Brien took over

mattthetrasher

frazzledhome wrote: »

How are they undermining our livelihoods?

We built and own the factories so its good business to kero them full at all times getting as much from our stainless steel as possible.

The real joke is traceability. We will now have the jokers from Bord Bia inspecting us (thanks to Coveney) yet this milk has no traceability.

Findo not really a reliable source of info as they've proved many times since O Brien took over

can you or do you want to compete against milk at 23 cent

Greengrass1

mattthetrasher wrote: »

can you or do you want to compete against milk at 23 cent

Pence.
Its equal to around 30c.

farmer lad

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Pence.
Its equal to around 30c.

Says on the article it was trading at 17-19 p/L which is 21-23c/l at the time of going to press!!!

keep going

Carbrey are importing concentrated whey with years and pay the highest price for milk.who exactly is bringing in the milk and im surprised because I always heard I dosent pay to transport water over water.onthe subject of english milk there seems to be a big swing to grass based dairying going on over there

A cow called Daisy

This was not the first year milk has been imported from U.K. Would presume that quota applies to what farmer supplies. While good to see processors working to capacity as much as possible seeing it was Irish farmer/taxpayer paid for it, i wonder do the farmers over there have the same regulations/paperwork etc.

And is it used to make IRISH butter or skim milk powder or whatever.

mattthetrasher

we had sheep and beef here before and both enterprises fell foul of the line "we are just operating to capacity" i remember bringing lambs to bagnelstown and big doubles of imported lamb being unloaded in front of us, 33 pound a head we ended up getting and more recently we had Brazilian and Argentinian beef, whats good for a processor is not necessarily good for us as producers

frazzledhome

mattthetrasher wrote: »

can you or do you want to compete against milk at 23 cent

No and no but I want our factory at full capacity at all times if possible. If a margin can be made by our coops why not take it?

It's down to a dysfunctional structure in UK where private companies have not invested in capacity or in new products. Liquid and cheddar is the order of the day over there. I'd say its a bigger issue for UK farmers than for us

RightTurnClyde

They're probably just giving us back the milk they got in IBCs last year.

whelan2

i thought june/july where the peak months for milk supply in the uk, or has that changed?

micraX

frazzledhome wrote: »

How are they undermining our livelihoods?

We built and own the factories so its good business to kero them full at all times getting as much from our stainless steel as possible.

The real joke is traceability. We will now have the jokers from Bord Bia inspecting us (thanks to Coveney) yet this milk has no traceability.

Findo not really a reliable source of info as they've proved many times since O Brien took over

Welcome to the world of vegetable producer were creeper imports are a fact of life...

Viewtodiefor

frazzledhome wrote: »

How are they undermining our livelihoods?

We built and own the factories so its good business to kero them full at all times getting as much from our stainless steel as possible.

The real joke is traceability. We will now have the jokers from Bord Bia inspecting us (thanks to Coveney) yet this milk has no traceability.

Findo not really a reliable source of info as they've proved many times since O Brien took over

Your dilliousional if you actually believe what your saying

kevthegaff

Lads are giving out about lads going over quota, and now wer importing milk???

GRASSorMUCK

keep going wrote: »

onthe subject of english milk there seems to be a big swing to grass based dairying going on over there

I think alot of this could be farms that gave up in the 90's-00's getting back in on a cheaper grass system? Truely crazy the amount of farms with often fairly new dairy sheds just abandoned as machinery stores! Hell our work shop used to house the farms huge dairyherd back in the day on an idoor system and there is a shift to bringing a rational rotaton back onto farms that gave up and went all arable WW-WOSR rotatio with clubroot ad verticilium wilt ad dreaded Black grass startig to become a serious issue.

frazzledhome

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Your dilliousional if you actually believe what your saying

What part do you disagree with or all of it?

Viewtodiefor

frazzledhome wrote: »

What part do you disagree with or all of it?

Sorry went bit overboard there!

I agree traceability is a joke.

Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture here. But is it not maddness importing this milk when we have quotas and also when price drops then it will just dilute price further?

paddysdream

Not a dairy farmer so don't really understand the quota bits etc.

But is this not like the French complaining that cheap Irish lamb will undermine their price or Italian farmers up in arms about cheap Irish beef.
If we export our agricultural produce all around the world(and presume we export a lot of dairy)then we may put up with the reverse ie if we expect to have markets open to us then we can hardly complain if other people are prepared to sell their produce here.
Without an export industry,Irish farming esp. dairy and beef would be a lot different.
All the experts told us that post 2015 Irish dairy farmers would be able to produce as much as they could and export it to all parts of the globe at very competitive rates so we can hardly complain if English farmers take us at our word and are prepared to undercut

joejobrien

paddysdream wrote: »

Not a dairy farmer so don't really understand the quota bits etc.

But is this not like the French complaining that cheap Irish lamb will undermine their price or Italian farmers up in arms about cheap Irish beef.
If we export our agricultural produce all around the world(and presume we export a lot of dairy)then we may put up with the reverse ie if we expect to have markets open to us then we can hardly complain if other people are prepared to sell their produce here.
Without an export industry,Irish farming esp. dairy and beef would be a lot different.
All the experts told us that post 2015 Irish dairy farmers would be able to produce as much as they could and export it to all parts of the globe at very competitive rates so we can hardly complain if English farmers take us at our word and are prepared to undercut

Yea Paddysdream, Some experts told us alot some years back with little or no information to back up claims with all the new markets that were going to open up but yet when I challenged them to tell us exactly they were, they had no idea( our advisory board). I always understood that you researched the potential market ,the volume of business, the type of product that was required etc etc before you start producing a product/service. This is the norm, but it now appears the dairy board are only now looking for markets and the basic product that we were led to understand that was demanded by asian customers is not required to any great extend.This suggests to me, now that producer are poised to make increases in poduction but with very little markets in place could have possible potential of a long deflated milk price. Europe is also on the increase.
To my mind it was a great PR excerise by the goverment to increase production by 50% and we will worry about the fallout later, sorry the farmer will:D

rangler1

joejobrien wrote: »

Yea Paddysdream, Some experts told us alot some years back with little or no information to back up claims with all the new markets that were going to open up but yet when I challenged them to tell us exactly they were, they had no idea( our advisory board). I always understood that you researched the potential market ,the volume of business, the type of product that was required etc etc before you start producing a product/service. This is the norm, but it now appears the dairy board are only now looking for markets and the basic product that we were led to understand that was demanded by asian customers is not required to any great extend.This suggests to me, now that producer are poised to make increases in poduction but with very little markets in place could have possible potential of a long deflated milk price. Europe is also on the increase.
To my mind it was a great PR excerise by the goverment to increase production by 50% and we will worry about the fallout later, sorry the farmer will:D

All farmers except dairy farmers have had to farm in this way for the last thirty years, we never knew whether there'd be a market or not when an animal is born or a crop is sown, but supply and demand eventually finds it's own level.
Dairying will now be a victim of its success in that there's a lot of farmers moving into it so it's going to be volatile for a while.
Farming will have to get more efficient, drystock farmers SFP reducing, milk supply increasing......plenty of us would admit that we're driving way better jeeps/tractors/etc than we need
We can't be seen to object to imports when 80% of our produce is depending on being exported

satstheway

rangler1 wrote: »

All farmers except dairy farmers have had to farm in this way for the last thirty years, we never knew whether there'd be a market or not when an animal is born or a crop is sown, but supply and demand eventually finds it's own level.
Dairying will now be a victim of its success in that there's a lot of farmers moving into it so it's going to be volatile for a while.
Farming will have to get more efficient, drystock farmers SFP reducing, milk supply increasing......plenty of us would admit that we're driving way better jeeps/tractors/etc than we need
We can't be seen to object to imports when 80% of our produce is depending on being exported

Bit unfair just because of 1 good year in milk you seam to have forgotton about The bad ones just because there was a quota did not mean your milk was worth producing. Cattle and sheep men say dairy had a cheque every month , sure but I did not see a Hugh sfp at end of year for sitting on ass like cattle and sheep producing ppl.

Mad4simmental

satstheway wrote: »

Bit unfair just because of 1 good year in milk you seam to have forgotton about The bad ones just because there was a quota did not mean your milk was worth producing. Cattle and sheep men say dairy had a cheque every month , sure but I did not see a Hugh sfp at end of year for sitting on ass like cattle and sheep producing ppl.

No that comment is a bit unfair. Not everyone has a huge sfp and manny like ourselves have no sfp. No need for looking down at what other people do we all do our own thing to suit our land and $$$ available. You made the choice to get up every day and milk twice a day not anyone elce. If you don't like it don't do it.

satstheway

Mad4simmental wrote: »

No that comment is a bit unfair. Not everyone has a huge sfp and manny like ourselves have no sfp. No need for looking down at what other people do we all do our own thing to suit our land and $$$ available. You made the choice to get up every day and milk twice a day not anyone elce. If you don't like it don't do it.

Bit of a rant from me. I actually do dairy and sucking small scale. Just hate to hear ppl say dairy was great throughout the ages. When it was far from it sale price same as production cost minus labour. Prob was advice to expand and ad usual everyone jump on band waggon distroying for all. But mainly bad advice.

Mad4simmental

satstheway wrote: »

Bit of a rant from me. I actually do dairy and sucking small scale. Just hate to hear ppl say dairy was great throughout the ages. When it was far from it sale price same as production cost minus labour. Prob was advice to expand and ad usual everyone jump on band waggon distroying for all. But mainly bad advice.

Your grand. But like rangler said it well be volatile for a few years and that's not taking the wether into it. All any of us can do is plug away and do the best we can. It's crazy that we import sh!t beef and export loads of our own. It's a market now like annything elce we all produce comodditys now and have far less controll on the valu of our produce.

satstheway

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Your grand. But like rangler said it well be volatile for a few years and that's not taking the wether into it. All any of us can do is plug away and do the best we can. It's crazy that we import sh!t beef and export loads of our own. It's a market now like annything elce we all produce comodditys now and have far less controll on the valu of our produce.

Most of the quality control seams to be at farm level. Sure the meat factorys and milk processors have stringent control but with their miss marketing they can sell horse to ppl and they buy. Local butchers were hard to beat.

mallethead

satstheway wrote: »

Bit unfair just because of 1 good year in milk you seam to have forgotton about The bad ones just because there was a quota did not mean your milk was worth producing. Cattle and sheep men say dairy had a cheque every month , sure but I did not see a Hugh sfp at end of year for sitting on ass like cattle and sheep producing ppl.

i produce beef and lamb with no sfp
and i don't sit on my ass

satstheway

mallethead wrote: »

i produce beef and lamb with no sfp
and i don't sit on my ass

As I have already said I was on a rant. and by no means ment everyone. But some ppl cut back alot and lived on earlier years.

joejobrien

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Your grand. But like rangler said it well be volatile for a few years and that's not taking the wether into it. All any of us can do is plug away and do the best we can. It's crazy that we import sh!t beef and export loads of our own. It's a market now like annything elce we all produce comodditys now and have far less controll on the valu of our produce.

Your spot on . Volitility wil be commmon place for quiet some time until supply and demand match but with europe increasing and us by 50%?? I would say abit more than a few years, but I hope IM wrong Unfortunately alot of people have very short memories, ieAlot of people spoke about reducing cow numbers because of very poor wether, poor prices etc and suddenly prices increase and now we are seen to be doing well but alot of the good years cover off the bad so they dont become that attractive when you take a longer term view.
In respect of sfp I would be quiet aware of a lot of dairy farmers that have a small sfp based on milk only but if you ran beef aswell they have a larger sfp. So if you were entirely dairy you may be pretty much working on a small support. Dairying needs to pay , It is a 7/day week twice a day, 12month job which is more demanding. I know if most Dairy farmers took an av industrial wage from there income , the balance now been profit divided by total hours worked it might not be so glowing as people think. This is often masked in the guise of family farm income, looks great income of whatever say 30, 40 , 50k, but remember you have invested in capital unlike an employee. I think one is entitled to a reasonable return on investment in their capital tied up on farm plus myself to recieve a fair remunatration . people should look closer at figures and if your happy to recieve button s ...well work away.
ON traceability it just another stick to beat us when it suits but perfectly alright for co ops to turn a blind eye when it suits . Your bang on as we produce only a commidity .and is 3, 4, 5 , steps away from our customers.

frazzledhome

This practice has been going on for years and I'm wondering does anyone know what volumes are involved?

farmertipp

The reason for bringing milk in from England is to make a margin for the coop and add effencinty to the whole operation. Thus increasing the return to the farmer. Any other conspiracy theories being put forward here are just that by people who want to destabilise good Business because they don't understand or have another agenda

mahoney_j

farmertipp wrote: »

The reason for bringing milk in from England is to make a margin for the coop and add effencinty to the whole operation. Thus increasing the return to the farmer. Any other conspiracy theories being put forward here are just that by people who want to destabilise good Business because they don't understand or have another agenda

I agree but will we the farmer see any return from all this milk?????i doubt it

RightTurnClyde

mahoney_j wrote: »

I agree but will we the farmer see any return from all this milk?????i doubt it

It means you won't have to pay for the reps 141 Passat.

valtraman

Surely importing milk to process is buggering up our traceability ,I thought we were a big player in the baby food market ,well if the milk comes from anywhere surely it puts that whole industry at risk also recent talk of increased exports of our special grass fed milk and butter to Germany would be at risk with imported product .I am just about ok with it coming straight to the supermarket shelf as long as it is clearly labelled at least it wont be mixed and sold on as Irish milk to premium markets

sheebadog

valtraman wrote: »

Surely importing milk to process is buggering up our traceability ,I thought we were a big player in the baby food market ,well if the milk comes from anywhere surely it puts that whole industry at risk also recent talk of increased exports of our special grass fed milk and butter to Germany would be at risk with imported product .I am just about ok with it coming straight to the supermarket shelf as long as it is clearly labelled at least it wont be mixed and sold on as Irish milk to premium markets

Surely when buying a product a company has rigorous standards that apply to all suppliers.

valtraman

Yes standards should apply and I am sure it is safe milk but only a few years ago it was discovered that an Irish brand was selling Christmas hampers that Irish families were buying for their families in America only to discover there was no Irish meat it was foreign sourced product ,(highlighted on the Joe Duffy show),the same for our Irish milk product exports it should be Irish that's what they are buying and all that is implied by the word Irish

visatorro

sheebadog wrote: »

Surely when buying a product a company has rigorous standards that apply to all suppliers.

The horse meat scandal proved that a company will do whatever they want to turn a few extra pound . It's comes under the heading greed.

mf240

Isint this new plant in bellview very near the port?? Handy??

Farmers get paid for what milk they sell ; imported milk will not benifit farmers.

RightTurnClyde

I wouldn't be too worried about the imported milk this year, if it keeps the plant running at capacity. The extra milk may be needed to supply contracts that have been got with post 2015 in mind.
But... if we see milk being imported next year, then we're in the sh1t...the 2015 free for all isn't working out.

Deepsouthwest

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

I wouldn't be too worried about the imported milk this year, if it keeps the plant running at capacity. The extra milk may be needed to supply contracts that have been got with post 2015 in mind.
But... if we see milk being imported next year, then we're in the sh1t...the 2015 free for all isn't working out.

+1

Gman1987

its distressed lots of Skim concentrated being imported at cheap prices, if their is a margin to be made and their is capacity to process it then why not bring it in, sure its not like its ending up on retail shelves here, its all being exported again.