Rent allowance limits need to rise.

scoobydoobie

I know there is a more suitable place for this thread, but I think it would be better highlighted here, on a daily basis family's are being forced to move from stable environments into homelessness, homes were they have probably lived for years, they are having to move into emergency accomadation, hotels or hostels that might be miles from their children's schools and friends, rent caps need to be put in place, but for some people it will be to little to late, possibly affecting future social development and education.

I have heard that these hotels and emergency places are costing more to sustain than just paying for the extra to keep family's in stable homes, sometimes near double, tax payers money, and the government need to act now, things are getting out of hand, even private renters are being put out on the street due to rents rising to such unfair levels, this is yet another problem created by our government, and they are burying their heads in the sand.

Please can someone think of the children, thanks for reading.

Penny Tration

Was that 'please, can someone think of the children' meant to be a Simpson reference, or are you being sincere?

Graces7

scoobydoobie wrote: »

I know there is a more suitable place for this thread, but I think it would be better highlighted here, on a daily basis family's are being forced to move from stable environments into homelessness, homes were they have probably lived for years, they are having to move into emergency accomadation, hotels or hostels that might be miles from their children's schools and friends, rent caps need to be put in place, but for some people it will be to little to late, possibly affecting future social development and education.

I have heard that these hotels and emergency places are costing more to sustain than just paying for the extra to keep family's in stable homes, sometimes near double, tax payers money, and the government need to act now, things are getting out of hand, even private renters are being put out on the street due to rents rising to such unfair levels, this is yet another problem created by our government, and they are burying their heads in the sand.

Please can someone think of the children, thanks for reading.

do you have figures please?

Ruu

When there is a more suitable place, use the forum. Don't post in After Hours for the larger audience (against the charter).

Moved from After Hours, the Accommodation and Property charter now applies.

Gatling

Been rent allowence is due to be cut again fairly soon your wasting your time op ,

hfallada

One of the biggest reason for a shortage of housing, is the type of housing planning permits in Ireland. You go to Germany and privately built housing in towns of 10-20 thousand people, are up to 20 storeys high. High density housing is encouraged to prevent urban sprawl. Housing even on the outskirts of the suburbs are still 5/6 storeys high. The apartments are big and more like houses with no gardens.

Yet anything more than a few storeys in Dublin is "damaging to the historical skyline". Dublin doesnt have a skyline and the streets are so narrow you can barely see whats the building in front of you. Certain lobby groups have made planning authorities believe anything more than 5 storeys will have Dublin looking like Hong Kong or Singapore.

There is a massive shortage of land in Dublin city. Unless we allow high rise within the city, there will be no where to build housing.

Caliden

I think raising the rent allowance would only add fuel to the fire that is the shortfall of available rental housing.

Relying on private landlords to shore a failing social housing scheme went on for too long and now it's rearing it's ugly head because those on rent allowance can't compete in the rental market against those who are pulling in a salary.

More social housing needs to be built because if rent allowance goes up two things could happen:

1) those on rent allowance still can't find anywhere because private landlords still won't accept rent allowance
2) rents go to an even higher level due to the increased limit and now workers are locked out of the market due to the price.


I foresee that in the next 12 months there is going to be an epidemic but by that point it will be too late.

Zamboni

scoobydoobie wrote: »

I know there is a more suitable place for this thread, but I think it would be better highlighted here, on a daily basis family's are being forced to move from stable environments into homelessness, homes were they have probably lived for years, they are having to move into emergency accomadation, hotels or hostels that might be miles from their children's schools and friends, rent caps need to be put in place, but for some people it will be to little to late, possibly affecting future social development and education.

I have heard that these hotels and emergency places are costing more to sustain than just paying for the extra to keep family's in stable homes, sometimes near double, tax payers money, and the government need to act now, things are getting out of hand, even private renters are being put out on the street due to rents rising to such unfair levels, this is yet another problem created by our government, and they are burying their heads in the sand.

Please can someone think of the children, thanks for reading.

Or they could do what normal private tenants do when they cannot afford rent - move to somewhere cheaper.

snubbleste

The whole rent supplement system is moving to local authorities under new legislation.
It will mean the Council will find you a rental property in the private sector and you will be removed from the housing list. Basically the State transferring funds to private investors instead of building social housing.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/limerick-pilot-to-allow-rent-allowance-recipients-return-to-work-263076.html

visual

Zamboni wrote: »

Or they could do what normal private tenants do when they cannot afford rent - move to somewhere cheaper.

Or bring in rent control

fash

snubbleste wrote: »

Basically the State transferring funds to private investors instead of building social housing.

Which they do because it is the cheapest way for the state to secure accommodation. Look up the build and maintenance costs for social housing.

No Pants

scoobydoobie wrote: »

Please can someone think of the children, thanks for reading.

Some reasonable points there OP, but tacking this onto the end makes it ridiculous.

Eldarion

scoobydoobie wrote: »

Please can someone think of the children, thanks for reading.

This is gonna get me slammed but I read this as:

Please can someone think of the people who make life choices that they can't sustain or support and expect the tax payer to bail them out.

quadrifoglio verde

visual wrote: »

Or bring in rent control

Rent control won't work. What happens to the person who can afford to pay more per month, but because all the stock is currently locked in at below the real market rate, can't find anywhere to live.
Due to the lack of supply in the market, he'll either go homeless or rent outside of dublin. Yet he could afford to pay more.
Surely this isn't fair. He's being prevented from spending his money on what he feels fit to spend it on.

whomitconcerns

im already paying a ton of tax and a LOt of rent..dont need higher rent allowances pushing rental prices up higher...

Claw Hammer

visual wrote: »

Or bring in rent control

There is rent control. The PRTB can reduce a rent if it is above market rates.

JustAddWater

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There is rent control. The PRTB can reduce a rent if it is above market rates.

The problem is market rates

Claw Hammer

JustAddWater wrote: »

The problem is market rates

That is a different thing. Trying to block the market is unconstitutional. The only way to reduce rent is to increase supply.

OldNotWIse

Eldarion wrote: »

This is gonna get me slammed but I read this as:

Please can someone think of the people who make life choices that they can't sustain or support and expect the tax payer to bail them out.

I'll be getting slammed with you

JustAddWater

Claw Hammer wrote: »

That is a different thing. Trying to block the market is unconstitutional. The only way to reduce rent is to increase supply.

Not really. Market rates have an artificial floor because of rent allowance

Claw Hammer

JustAddWater wrote: »

Not really. Market rates have an artificial floor because of rent allowance

It isn't an artificial floor. The market is influenced by the presence of rent allowance. Take it away and see what happens to the market. Increase supply and see what happens.In any event the rent allowance limits are reduced in line with general market falls.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Caliden wrote: »

now it's rearing it's ugly head because those on rent allowance can't compete in the rental market against those who are pulling in a salary.

I'm trying to understand why it is a bad thing that someone who is working can have more available income/higher standard of living than someone who is not.

Gatling

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It isn't an artificial floor. The market is influenced by the presence of rent allowance. Take it away and see what happens to the market. Increase supply and see what happens.In any event the rent allowance limits are reduced in line with general market falls.

And if rents don't fall after abolishing rent allowence ,how do you then deal with 90,000 potential homeless people

Claw Hammer

Gatling wrote: »

And if rents don't fall after abolishing rent allowence ,how do you then deal with 90,000 potential homeless people

So there are 90,000 people willing to pay market rents for the 90,000 who will become homeless when rent allowance is abolished. Where are they housed now?

super_furry

Raising rent allowance will only inflame the rental market and make it even more expensive for those not in receipt of it. Rent allowance is not any kind of long term sollution, only social housing is. Look at Tallaght - there's hundreds of unfinished appartments just lying empty. Finish them and turn them over to the local authorities.

Gatling

Claw Hammer wrote: »

So there are 90,000 people willing to pay market rents for the 90,000 who will become homeless when rent allowance is abolished. Where are they housed now?

So 90,000 new tenants and 90,000 homeless sensible approach to some

Claw Hammer

Gatling wrote: »

So 90,000 new tenants and 90,000 homeless sensible approach to some

Where are the 90,000 new tenants housed now?

Eldarion

Gatling wrote: »

And if rents don't fall after abolishing rent allowence ,how do you then deal with 90,000 potential homeless people

That's not really what he said. He simply said reduce demand and see what happens to the market, or increase supply and see what happens to the market.

I'm sorry if I don't share the sentiment that rent allowance should be increased to cover the rent of a 2 bed apartment in the center of Dublin or a 3 bed semi in one of the SCD suburbs.

Why is it that those who are renting privately have to make a decision on location/quality/room sizes based off what they can afford to spend on rent each month but those in receipt of rent allowance should not?

There's plenty of well earning professionals who have also been priced out of the most desirable areas and accommodations, where's the wailing for their children?

Michael D Not Higgins

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Where are the 90,000 new tenants housed now?

At home with their parents? Every year you will get thousands of new rental tenants from the next generation. However these are normally balanced by the people buying houses. Those people haven't been buying houses for the last few years though.

Claw Hammer

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

At home with their parents? Every year you will get thousands of new rental tenants from the next generation. However these are normally balanced by the people buying houses. Those people haven't been buying houses for the last few years though.

Are they going to come running out the door of their parents house and rent flats at current rates? They would get the flats now ahead of rent allowance tenants so how would the de housing of rent allowance tenants make any difference to them.

Michael D Not Higgins

I'm confused. Is the proposed argument here to remove rent allowance and let them pay from their dole alone?

Caliden

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I'm trying to understand why it is a bad thing that someone who is working can have more available income/higher standard of living than someone who is not.

I guess the point I was trying to make there was that the problem is two fold in that rent allowance forces the rent up which affects both workers and non-workers.
In Dublin at least, the supply for workers is already at a low level and they're competing against those on rent allowance (where RA is accepted).

The cause for the low supply could be (I don't have figures) due to those on RA renting private accommodation as opposed to them having social housing.

I completely agree with your point that those working should have a better selection available to them than there is now and I'm actually in fear of next November when my lease is up for renewal as my girlfriend and I are paying roughly €200 less per month than similar properties around us for a 2 bed apartment in D15.

scoobydoobie

Hi, ive yet to catch up, but just to clear up my last sentence, yes it was very sincere, the children are our future, in saying that i was also trying to lightheartadly pre-empt some of the smart comments i had expected in after hours, sorry if it has come accross in poor taste.

i dont have much in the way of figures, only news story's i will ad a link to.

http://www.dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=3527

And another link from last year.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/homeless-family-of-12-may-spend-summer-in-hotel-29327935.html

Claw Hammer

scoobydoobie wrote: »

Hi, ive yet to catch up, but just to clear up my last sentence, yes it was very sincere, the children are our future, in saying that i was also trying to lightheartadly pre-empt some of the smart comments i had expected in after hours, sorry if it has come accross in poor taste.

i dont have much in the way of figures, only news story's i will ad a link to.

http://www.dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=3527

And another link from last year.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/homeless-family-of-12-may-spend-summer-in-hotel-29327935.html

What good would increasing rent allowance limits do? It would drive rents higher as workers outbid the recipients of rent allowance. There would still be homeless people and more money wasted on rent allowance. The solution is to provide more accommodation and let the market find its own level. There are empty office buildings and shops in Dublin city centre which could be easily adapted as student residences. It would take the pressure off the rental market if that was done. The same is true of other areas of shortage. There are numerous buildings lying idle while people sleep in the streets and cry about rent allowance.

Caliden

scoobydoobie wrote: »

Hi, ive yet to catch up, but just to clear up my last sentence, yes it was very sincere, the children are our future, in saying that i was also trying to lightheartadly pre-empt some of the smart comments i had expected in after hours, sorry if it has come accross in poor taste.

i dont have much in the way of figures, only news story's i will ad a link to.

http://www.dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=3527

And another link from last year.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/homeless-family-of-12-may-spend-summer-in-hotel-29327935.html

Do you not agree that the responsibility for adequate housing is with the Government?
Increasing rent allowance is a band aid and shouldn't be viewed as a solution.

Magicmatilda

I completely agree tht this is a problem that needs to be addressed. Many people in this country with young families have found themselves in receipt of rent allowance owing to job loss. Some of these people may have already lost homes due to repossesions. They are now being housed in hotel rooms, which is ridiculous. These young children are the future of our country and they should be thought of, not only because they deservce better but because children raised under such stress do not turn into happy well adjusted adults (generally speaking).

However I am not sure that an increase in rent allownace is the issue. Personally I think that there should be more social housing built into any new development and that this social housing should be in a mixed development with non social housing. This idea that someone who is richer is a better person is a very sad symtom of today's society. AFAIK there was legislation that developers had to do this but they were able to instead give land to the council, which really defeats the purpose. To put all the people of a lower socio economic class into one place and keep those of a higher socio economic class is another does not work.

It is a massive problem and with the local elections looming it is one I think we should all be raising.

zef

Raising rent allowance won't help. The main problem facing RA recipients is getting a LL to accept it.
There are 1,,683 properties to rent in Dublin. 18 accept RA but some of these are well above the RA ceiling. The number of properties under 1k p.m is 10. TEN!
Many of these are looked after by the same auctioneer. It says on the adverts for his apts- "Email only". I'd hate to be waiting on that email.
Now if you happened to be lucky enough to get a viewing you would be fortunate indeed to get it at asking price without others pushing up market rates by offering an extra x amount p.m.
Rent allowance isn't the answer. The provision of social housing is where tenants can work - RA is a deterrent from work as it is clawed back euro for euro. Also a tenant can treat the house as 'their own'- doing decorating etc.

JustAddWater

zef wrote: »

There are 1,,683 properties to rent in Dublin. 18 accept RA but some of these are well above the RA ceiling. The number of properties under 1k p.m is 10. TEN!

where are you getting your figures?
daft just literally showed me

Found 303 properties. Displaying properties 11 - 20 below
Searching for properties to let for less than €1,000 per month in Co. Dublin

Cuddlesworth

JustAddWater wrote: »

where are you getting your figures?
daft just literally showed me

Only 10 accepting rent allowance I'm assuming. For many good reasons.

Caliden

JustAddWater wrote: »

where are you getting your figures?
daft just literally showed me

The figure they are quoting is for EVERY rental property in Dublin with no max rent.
With only 18 of that 1683 accepting RA.
With a max rent of 1000, there are 303 and of that 303 they are saying only 10 accept RA.


Jesus wept at those figures.... 18 months ago when I was looking for a place there were 18,000 places for rent in Dublin.

zef

You need to tick the box that says "accepts Rent Allowance"

Also if you are single - there are no properties under 650e that accept RA.
Yes bedsits of old were sometimes horrible - but they were better than homelessness.

Pocoyo

Zamboni wrote: »

Or they could do what normal private tenants do when they cannot afford rent - move to somewhere cheaper.

All the thanks for such a foolish spiteful uninformed comment.

Rent allowance rates are affecting every county where are they going to move?

drumswan

Pocoyo wrote: »

All the thanks for such a foolish spiteful uninformed comment.

Rent allowance rates are affecting every county where are they going to move?

Somewhere where rents are lower

scoobydoobie

Pocoyo wrote: »

All the thanks for such a foolish spiteful uninformed comment.

Rent allowance rates are affecting every county where are they going to move?

That and also as far as I know you can't move from one La and stay on the housing list.

Pocoyo

drumswan wrote: »

Somewhere where rents are lower

Where how many properties are accepting RA inside the bracket? have a look at rent.ie and inform yourself your comment is foolish.

drumswan

Pocoyo wrote: »

Where how many properties are accepting RA inside the bracket? have a look at rent.ie and inform yourself your comment is foolish.

Daft has 500+ properties accepting rent allowance in Ireland.

zef

Rents may be cheaper 'in the country' and it is certainly a bit easier to get a landlord to accept rent allowance, but the problem one encounters then is social isolation. Also to live in the country in many areas you do need a car. Hard to run on 188p.w.

Pocoyo

drumswan wrote: »

Daft has 500+ properties accepting rent allowance in Ireland.

How many are inside the bracket?

500?? just another 92,500 to go.

Pocoyo

zef wrote: »

Rents may be cheaper 'in the country' and it is certainly a bit easier to get a landlord to accept rent allowance, but the problem one encounters then is social isolation. Also to live in the country in many areas you do need a car. Hard to run on 188p.w.

when you say country it means country most affordable RA properties are well outside the towns.

Well they are in meath kildare laois etc

No Pants

scoobydoobie wrote: »

the children are our future,

Sorry, that statement is too broad to be true. Some of the children will be useful, some will be tolerable, some will be a pain in the hole and some will be an outright drain.

super_furry

Jesus, I had now idea that rest supplement was so high. A single person in Dublin can get €520 a month, that's insane.