Shower stopped working - bill very high?

odckdo

I don't know much about this stuff so any advice on this would be great. Thanks.

Recently the electric shower stopped working and a switch tripped in the fuse box. The power on/off switch (which I always leave on) on the ensuite wall has some burn marks.

My new bill is double the norm. Usage hasn't changed. Switched off power to test and the meter stopped.

Also the back room seems to have a slight buzzing noise. During the day I can't hear it due to outside traffic but at night I can. (Not sure if related as only started to use room.)

I was planning to get an electrician in to fix the shower. Electric Ireland suggested getting the lines checked aswell.

Is there anything else I can do?

tomdempsey200

I'd prob get an owl meter to keep an eye on usage

as well as getting a registered contractor out to repair shower and investigate usage

mcgragger

odckdo wrote: »

I don't know much about this stuff so any advice on this would be great. Thanks.

Recently the electric shower stopped working and a switch tripped in the fuse box. The power on/off switch (which I always leave on) on the ensuite wall has some burn marks.

My new bill is double the norm. Usage hasn't changed. Switched off power to test and the meter stopped.

Also the back room seems to have a slight buzzing noise. During the day I can't hear it due to outside traffic but at night I can. (Not sure if related as only started to use room.)

I was planning to get an electrician in to fix the shower. Electric Ireland suggested getting the lines checked aswell.

Is there anything else I can do?

The power on off switch you talk about should be the double pole isolator switch, and should be a pull cord or its not within regs.

Secondly, they burn out quite commonly because the power showers draw heavy load current and this creates heat around the terminals in the back of the switch.

the trip out is down to your shower switch shorting out due to failure caused by scorching. There could be a few reasons for this, dodgy shower, loose connections, cheap brand switch.

If your new bill is double the norm there is something else wrong,if the shower is tripped out then it would not be using any current.

can you give me a little more details of your house?
I'll try and help you, in the meantime I would leave the shower RCD(fuse) in the tripped position.

tomdempsey200

mcgragger wrote: »

The power on off switch you talk about should be the double pole isolator switch, and should be a pull cord or its not within regs.


the trip out is down to your shower switch shorting out due to failure caused by scorching.

I think he means a wall switch outside which should comply with wiring rules

it 'may' be the cause of the problem but will need replacing anyhow

mcgragger

Ive replaced loads of them over the years.
They burn out. Ive never heard of an increased bill because of it.

Sir Arthur Daley

mcgragger wrote: »

and should be a pull cord or its not within regs.

Is a pull cord switch the only switch permitted within regs for the isolation of an electric shower?

mcgragger

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Is a pull cord switch the only switch permitted within regs for the isolation of an electric shower?

Within a bathroom yes.

Some older installations have sswitches on the wall.

Personally I'd only fit a pull cord. Its not worth the risk for the sake of a few quid extra

Sir Arthur Daley

mcgragger wrote: »

Personally I'd only fit a pull cord. Its not worth the risk for the sake of a few quid extra

What brand switch do you use?

tomdempsey200

there was actually a move away from pull-cords because of problems

but id also favour a quality pullcord properly fitted

crabtree for example

mcgragger

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

What brand switch do you use?

MK
Crabtree
Marbo.

Any good electrical wholesaler will have them.

Don't buy in woodies or any shop like that.
They are normally overpriced rubbish

Sir Arthur Daley

I dont use pull cords, use double pole switch on wall. I dont like pull cord, the string gets dirty, kids like swinging off them cord cracks, pullchords overheat even with good connections.

tomdempsey200

mcgragger wrote: »

Ive replaced loads of them over the years.
They burn out. Ive never heard of an increased bill because of it.

the rcd trip.. not the usage

you said the switch caused the trip

which may be the case

mcgragger

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

the rcd trip.. not the usage

you said the switch caused the trip

which may be the case

The RCD will trip if the terminals are scorched and burnt out. So in that case its the switch causing the trip.

mcgragger

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

I dont use pull cords, use double pole switch on wall. I dont like pull cord, the string gets dirty, kids like swinging off them cord cracks, pullchords overheat even with good connections.

Doesn't matter what you like. They are specified for safety reasons. You can shorten the chord.
The problem can ssometimes be the way its wired. The cables are quite big and having 2 tails in a single gang box leaves no space for dressing cables.

tomdempsey200

mcgragger wrote: »

Doesn't matter what you like. They are specified for safety reasons. You can shorten the chord.

specified where?

and burnt switches don't necessarily trip rcds

mcgragger

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

specified where?

and burnt switches don't necessarily trip rcds

Are you a sparks?

tomdempsey200

mcgragger wrote: »

Are you a sparks?

maybe you could start by answering the question

mcgragger

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

maybe you could start by answering the question

Lets put it like this

If you're a sparks you should know where to find the regulations or you're not competent.

If you're not a sparks then you are not in a position to talk.

So which is it?

tomdempsey200

which regulation says you have to use pullcords?

Sir Arthur Daley

mcgragger wrote: »

Doesn't matter what you like. They are specified for safety reasons. You can shorten the chord.

So am i going against regs using a wall switch?

The problem can ssometimes be the way its wired. The cables are quite big and having 2 tails in a single gang box leaves no space for dressing cables.

I wouldnt class 6sq big, are you telling me its not possible to safetly terminate and wire a double pole switch with a 47mm deep backing box?

mcgragger

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

So am i going against regs using a wall switch?



I wouldnt class 6sq. are you telling me its not possible to safetly terminate and wire a double pole switch with a 47mm deep backing box?

As long as the switch is outside the bathroom it's ok.

6sq could be small for a 40a unit. I'd use 10sq. This makes it difficult unless you have good access to the back of the box. Not necessarily unsafe but difficult to be neat as 10sq is big and the switch terminals are bulky.

tomdempsey200

so there is no regulation..

Bosley1421

Can I ask, does the light on the pull cord switch always remain illuminated?

Sir Arthur Daley

mcgragger wrote: »

As long as the switch is outside the bathroom it's ok.

6sq could be small for a 40a unit. I'd use 10sq. This makes it difficult unless you have good access to the back of the box. Not necessarily unsafe but difficult to be neat as 10sq is big and the switch terminals are bulky.

Lets call a spade a spade here my question was specific, i asked you is it not possible to safetly terminate and wire a double pole switch with a 47mm deep backing box with 6sq?
We are not discussing cable carrying loads.

mcgragger

Bosley1421 wrote: »

Can I ask, does the light on the pull cord switch always remain illuminated?

Probably connected wrong. Mains feed is connected to wrong side of switch.

It will still switch but Led will stay lit.

mcgragger

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Lets call a spade a spade here my question was specific, i asked you is it not possible to safetly terminate and wire a double pole switch with a 47mm deep backing box with 6sq?
We are not discussing cable carrying loads.

We are talking about showers so its not ok to assume you want to wire a shower with 6 Sq?

**** my life you try and offer advice to people.

Shouldn't have bothered.

Bruthal

mcgragger wrote: »

Personally I'd only fit a pull cord. Its not worth the risk for the sake of a few quid extra

That`s the opposite for me. Wall switches are a much better job.

Bruthal

mcgragger wrote: »

The RCD will trip if the terminals are scorched and burnt out. So in that case its the switch causing the trip.

Only if the scorching and carbonization reaches the earth terminal from the phase. I dont remember seeing any burnt pullchords tripping rcd`s myself.

tomdempsey200

Bruthal wrote: »

Only if the scorching and carbonization reaches the earth terminal from the phase. I dont remember seeing any burnt pullchords tripping rcd`s myself.

me neither

not saying it can't happen

Bruthal

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

me neither

not saying it can't happen

It would want to be one seriously burnt switch. But it is possible alright i`d say.

I seen badly burnt light fittings cause phase neutral or phase earth shorts. But with a shower switch, the burning caused by the load itself usually causes a breakdown of the connection, so cutting off the shower and stopping further burning. Where the light fittings just kept burning the cable until short. Outdoor lights with too big a wattage bulb in them.

Sir Arthur Daley

mcgragger wrote: »

We are talking about showers so its not ok to assume you want to wire a shower with 6 Sq?

Where have i said otherwise, i am not in the habit of repeating myself but why cant you answer my question.

**** my life you try and offer advice to people.

Shouldn't have bothered.

I was not looking for advice.

Bruthal

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

.



I was not looking for advice.

In fairness now, he was not giving you advice.

Sir Arthur Daley

Bruthal wrote: »

In fairness now, he was not giving you advice.

He was, in post 10 he gave me advice on suppliers.

Bruthal

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

He was, in post 10 he gave me advice on suppliers.

God almighty, its worse its getting.

2011

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

I dont use pull cords, use double pole switch on wall.

I have to say I prefer a DP switch on the wall outside as well.
I have seen pull cords damage ceilings.
I think they look untidy too.

mcgragger wrote: »

The RCD will trip if the terminals are scorched and burnt out. So in that case its the switch causing the trip.

The RCD will only operate if the current carried by the phase conductor does not equal the current flowing carried by the neutral conductor. A current imbalance of over 30mA should cause the device to operate.

Therefore it is not likely that a scorched switch would cause an RCD to trip. The exception being in the circumstances that Bruthal mentioned.

mcgragger wrote: »

They are specified for safety reasons.

Isolation switches are installed for maintenance purposes.
A plumber (for example) can isolate a fixed appliance (a shower in this case) and work on it safely, rather than isolating it at the distribution board and expose itself to the danger of a third party turing it on.

Either a pull cord or a DP switch is permitted, it is just down to personal preference and practicality.
Obviously the DP switch must be located outside the bathroom.

mcgragger wrote: »

If you're a sparks you should know where to find the regulations or you're not competent.

I am a sparks (for what it is worth).
Unfortunately this does not mean that much anymore as the professionalism of some electricians is appalling.

If you're not a sparks then you are not in a position to talk.

Why? It is a fair question.
Please read the charter, this forum is for people with all levels of electrical understanding and training.
Your aggressive tone is not appropriate.
Disagreements are acceptable and can lead to good debate from which we can all learn. The key is to keep it civilised.
On this forum we rarely infract or ban people or delete posts.
We would like to keep it that way, please do not force us to change this.

odckdo

Just to say I got this sorted today.

The electrician found that the plastic on/off switch was completely burnt on the inside. One of the cables was connected incorrectly and this was burnt too. Simmering away - potential fire hazard, he said. The plastic on the cable wasn't cut back enough and that the wire wasn't twisted to compact it so the connection was poor.

Checked usage and couldn't find any problems. I'll have to recheck bills and get in touch with Electric Ireland again.

While looking at the fuse box he discovered that it was missing some safety mechanism if both electric showers are being used at the same time. Both showers are never used at the same time at the moment - it slipped my mind when he mentioned it but I will get him back to fix this.

My house is in an estate in a small town and built 14 years ago during the boom time. In addition to the above poor workmanship, I have recently discovered:

* incorrectly installed integrated dishwasher where the oak door was drilled into the applicance, rather than being attached properly.
* incorrectly installed integrated fridge freezer whereby the doors didn't have rubber seals - losing electricity.
* leak in roof after 2 years: original roofers checked it out and lied to my face telling me they couldn't find the problem. Turns out they never put the proper cement on the edge of the tiles.

Thankfully the problem with the electric shower was fixed in time. But it is disappointing though with all the poor workmanship especially as we know the builder well. Sign of the times back then I suppose.