Should Elections move with the times?

Rhys Essien

In 2014,idiots are still putting up posters.Cost,Environmentally bad,littering,hazards,unsightly etc.

We have to listen to crap from candidates at doors.Can they not put up Youtube videos giving information and what they hope to do.

We still have to go to polling stations.Again cost,hassle etc.Should we not be able to vote online using our PPS numbers.Get instant results,do away with recounting.

The sooner technology takes over from this crap the better.

Birneybau

Yeah, make them all fight in a Thunderdome-esque stadium.

Sir Arthur Daley

I am friends with several candidates on facebook, get constant updates on their intentions.

Eponymous

Agreed. Perhaps if we had some sort of voting machines we could use...

Dravokivich

Voting with your PPS, means your vote is no longer anonymous.

Robbo

Eponymous wrote: »

Agreed. Perhaps if we had some sort of voting machines we could use...

As far as I remember, they were Windows XP based so now that most support has ended for that, it would only make sense that we tried to resurrect them.

SEPT 23 1989

If there was only some machine to cast our votes on rather then using pen and paper

yoyo

Robbo wrote: »

As far as I remember, they were Windows XP based so now that most support has ended for that, it would only make sense that we tried to resurrect them.

Windows 98 and used an Access db is what I heard!!

Nick

Davarus Walrus

I've an uncle involved in the politics game at a national level. Firing up posters and calling to people's doors is still the best way of getting votes. It's the personal touch and good 'brand recognition'.

The Internet is still viewed with utter suspicion. Twitter is used as it allows you to send out a short, snappy message. But doing online Q&A is an accident waiting to happen. Can you imagine a politician doing a Q&A session of a site like thejournal.ie? Just an excuse for punters to pour out their vitriol and stupidity.

rubadub

Rhys Essien wrote: »

In 2014,idiots are still putting up posters.Cost,Environmentally bad,littering,hazards,unsightly etc.

The majority are illegal in my area, dun laoghaire rathdown county council have clear guidelines on where they can be put.

I have contacted various politicians in the past about their illegal posters. One member of the green party was one of the few who responded. He also signed me up to his newsletter creating a female version of my name, presumably thinking it is degrading/insulting to be a woman and having a dig at me for complaining.

Now this misogynist was recently complaining about posters going up about warning pedestrians. Ironically just this morning I saw a group of kids walking along and 1 wandering onto the road, this to avoid an illegal green party poster was obstructing them.

Another from years ago is still discarded on the N11, I contacted the ex-green party member about her poster and she threatened to call the gardai, showing no responsibility or care for this.

Ruthless scum, labour are worst as they purposely designed posters to look like motoring danger signs. Setting out to distract motorists, I would like to seem them jailed over this practice.

I have also challenged the people putting up posters, on both occasions none knew anything about guidelines. I have gone to the gardai who said it was nothing to do with them. Unfortunately I think it will take a death before they are banned. I expect there have been loads of accidents already. And when the death does occur it will be all "oh isn't hindsight great", no its not you fucking scum.

Cookie_Monster

/\/\I want to thank that a hundred times over/\/\

Amirani

There's some big issues with Internet voting that haven't yet been figured out. Running a vote based on PPS numbers removes anonymity, which is a fundamental aspect of our voting system using anonymous online voting greatly increases the chances of rigging. How can you ensure that everyone only votes once?

wazky

I hate when those posters go up, I don't know about the rest of the country but there are some weird looking squares going for election around my area, the eyes on the posters seem to just follow you.....

woppi

Using PPS to vote would work like this...

Machine 1
User provides PPS and authentication credentials to get one time use token (one way hash)
System records that a token has been issued for that PPS without recording the identity of that token.

Machine 2
User votes with that token. No authentication required.

This is very similar to the existing system where one authenticates at a desk (with a carbon based lifeform) to get a ballot paper.
There are edge case issues which would require reset and override such as how to deal with the case where voter some how loses their token between Machine 1 and Machine 2.

kowloon

Saw a guy roll his jeep on to a roundabout yesterday to put up a poster. The jeep already had crash damage. Can't guarantee it was from doing dumb sh1t like that, but he was asking for another accident.

woppi wrote: »

There are edge case issues which would require reset and override such as how to deal with the case where voter some how loses their token between Machine 1 and Machine 2.

Could issue the token chained to a cavity block. Then you could consider any lost tokens a contribution to creating a more intelligent electorate.

Dublinflyer

The posters are bad enough but it's the cable ties that are left behind when they are taken down really bugs me. There are some posts in my area with dozens of the things on them.

Conmaicne Mara

No, absolutely not. The only enjoyment I get out of elections is watching SOME of them sweat at the count

Davarus Walrus

rubadub wrote: »

Ruthless scum, labour are worst as they purposely designed posters to look like motoring danger signs. Setting out to distract motorists, I would like to seem them jailed over this practice.

I'll ignore the rest of your post where you imply that someone was being misogynist for misspelling your name.

Are you suggesting that the Labour Party; a party that is over 100 years old and the junior partner in the current coalition government deliberately designs posters that will distract drivers? That's a pretty serious claim.

wazky

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the Labour Party; a party that is over 100 years old and the junior partner in the current coalition government deliberately designs posters that will distract drivers? That's a pretty serious claim.

It's a pretty serious issue.

Amirani

woppi wrote: »

Using PPS to vote would work like this...

Machine 1
User provides PPS and authentication credentials to get one time use token (one way hash)
System records that a token has been issued for that PPS with recording the identity of that token.

Machine 2
User votes with that token. No authentication required.

This is very similar to the existing system where one authenticates at a desk (with a carbon based lifeform) to get a ballot paper.
There are edge case issues which would require reset and override such as how to deal with the case where voter some how loses their token between Machine 1 and Machine 2.

That's not online voting though?

rubadub

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

I'll ignore the rest of your post where you imply that someone was being misogynist for misspelling your name.

I don't think a 3 letter name turning into a 9 letter name is a simple typo. This happened after numerous direct emails, I have zero doubt that it was a subtle dig at me. Many would view complaints as petty, I have seen the real danger of this madness.

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the Labour Party; a party that is over 100 years old and the junior partner in the current coalition government deliberately designs posters that will distract drivers? That's a pretty serious claim.

I think all parties with posters up have set out to distract drivers, that's not a serious claim, why else would they do it? just they went the extra mile to try and make them look like diamond red road signs warning ones. Luckily for them their party colours are red so they can claim it is less purposefully done.

This is the style I am talking about
http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy49/Nighteishes/396091_565968220098351_72906574_n_zps622163ef.jpg

http://cdn1.herald.ie/migration_catalog/article25351168.ece/764df/ALTERNATES/h342/1906_gilmore_herald

Do you seriously think they did not intend these to look like official road signs?

Below you can see one placed on top of a "no left turn" sign. This could easily end up falling downwards and obstructing that sign.
http://f0.thejournal.ie/media/2013/02/222011-start-of-the-general-elections-campaigns-4-630x433.jpg

You can see posters here in amongst loads of warning signs, DLR requested the bottom of posters to be a minimum of 2m off the ground, this is just commons sense, crazy that they had to resort to needing guidelines.
http://img.rasset.ie/000556a5-560.jpg
It was a low poster forcing the kid onto the road today, in the picture above it there are obviously kids around at times, small children will be completely hidden if they were beside the woman in the photo.

If there had been no previous tradition of any election posters, and some independent person discovered they could legally be put up and had red diamond shaped ones all up and down dual carriage ways they would change the law immediately, and the candidate's reputation would be rightfully be destroyed by the media & public. Its sort of similar to smoking, if discovered today it would be illegal, but since there is a tradition it continues. But outlawing smoking would be very difficult, banning these posters is easy.


http://www.thejournal.ie/dont-put-election-posters-on-electrical-poles-say-esb-1426867-Apr2014/

ESB warns candidates: Don’t put your posters on electrical poles or you may die

ESB Networks has previously experienced incidents where election posters have caught fire following contact with the electricity network resulting in loss of supply to customers and damaged infrastructure.

woppi

Diego Simeone wrote: »

That's not online voting though?

This is my personal preference, but I consider anonymity in the voting process as being of greater importance than convenience. In my opinion, online activity is not anonymous. With remote e-Voting, it is harder to determine that the vote has not been cast under coercion. Moreover, there is no guarantee on how internet traffic will be routed. I do not envisage any government advocating an anonymous internet infrastructure or permitting the involvement of other agencies (in or outside the state). Where remote e-Voting has been used in other countries, some of these concerns have been ignored, considered too impractical to address, or not significant enough.

The Irish are a contrary lot, since there is no perfect remote e-voting system, I can't see any point in pushing for it. Now, e-Voting to reduce the cost of counting the ballots, that's something worth aiming for.

Davarus Walrus

rubadub wrote: »

I don't think a 3 letter name turning into a 9 letter name is a simple typo. This happened after numerous direct emails, I have zero doubt that it was a subtle dig at me. Many would view complaints as petty, I have seen the real danger of this madness.


I think all parties with posters up have set out to distract drivers, that's not a serious claim, why else would they do it? just they went the extra mile to try and make them look like diamond red road signs warning ones. Luckily for them their party colours are red so they can claim it is less purposefully done.

This is the style I am talking about
http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy49/Nighteishes/396091_565968220098351_72906574_n_zps622163ef.jpg

http://cdn1.herald.ie/migration_catalog/article25351168.ece/764df/ALTERNATES/h342/1906_gilmore_herald

Below you can see one placed on top of a "no left turn" sign. This could easily end up falling downwards and obstructing that sign.
http://f0.thejournal.ie/media/2013/02/222011-start-of-the-general-elections-campaigns-4-630x433.jpg

You can see posters here in amongst loads of warning signs, DLR requested the bottom of posters to be a minimum of 2m off the ground, this is just commons sense, crazy that they had to resort to needing guidelines.
http://img.rasset.ie/000556a5-560.jpg
It was a low poster forcing the kid onto the road today, in the picture above it there are obviously kids around, small children will be completely hidden if they were beside the woman in the photo.

If there had been no previous tradition of any election posters, and some independent person discovered they could legally be put up and had red diamond shaped ones all up and down dual carriage ways they would change the law immediately, and the candidate's reputation would be rightfully be destroyed by the media & public. Its sort of similar to smoking, if discovered today it would be illegal, but since there is a tradition it continues. But outlawing smoking would be very difficult, banning these posters is easy.


http://www.thejournal.ie/dont-put-election-posters-on-electrical-poles-say-esb-1426867-Apr2014/

The red diamond ones aren't Labour posters. They are the work of the Shinners.

dublinman1990

I think improvements in technology will enhance the ways elections are being handled in the future.

In my view Irish political parties should consider only using online promotional posters for getting votes after the next GE because there are far too many posters distributed for the Local and European elections where I live already.

If the online poster only issue doesn't work. The government should consider a strict quota of one poster on every streetlamp in every county that is governed from Dublin whenever an election is taking place because in my view it will cut waste and saves taxpayers money for candidates because the posters are expensive to be made to use in the short term.

For example there are a total of three posters for three separate parties (Labour, FG and SP) all placed on a streetlamp on the main road outside my house. Two of the posters are for the european elections and the other for a local candidate.

I do think that is a bit much IMO.

The amount of Nessa Childers posters is mind being displayed in Dublin is also mind boggling as she is not too good at distributing posters herself. She is running as an independent candidate but there are loads of her posters being plastered on every streetlamp on the road beside the metals at Dun Laoghaire harbour.

I mean wth? We do get the picture all of a sudden now Nessa.

I have never met her at all but she does seem to be a bit over eager for getting elected into Europe.

Dravokivich

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

The red diamond ones aren't Labour posters. They are the work of the Shinners.

Why the colour red then? I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who associates it with them.

Ben D Bus

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

The red diamond ones aren't Labour posters. They are the work of the Shinners.

Re-purposed "Sniper at Work" posters?

rubadub

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

The red diamond ones aren't Labour posters. They are the work of the Shinners.

I already linked the labour one
http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy49/Nighteishes/396091_565968220098351_72906574_n_zps622163ef.jpg

I do now see the second post was sinn fein, that is the first time I have seen them, 2 wrongs certainly do not make a right, this practice is despicable.

This was not a one off labour poster, there have been lots in this style
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5219/5455237049_411b81fa65.jpg

The 3 colour sinn fein one is less similar to road signs than the red/white labour ones.

appropriate image above this one
http://www.photopol.com/elect2011/turdy.jpg

The guy posting the one below said it is blocking a filter light, you can also see a red diamond FF one above it, seems more are copying this style, once they know the others got away with it I suppose. I

http://www.photopol.com/elect2011/blaney_2.jpg

http://f0.thejournal.ie/media/2014/04/sf-poster-373x500.jpg

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-hurt-by-poster-settles-claim-against-ff-26819019.html

Woman hurt by poster settles claim against FF

RAY MANAGH – UPDATED 04 DECEMBER 2012 12:41 PM

A HOUSEWIFE who knocked her head against a low hanging election poster has settled a €38,000 damages claim.

Barrister John Nolan told the Circuit Civil Court yesterday that Fianna Fail and Executive Posters Ltd, Howth, Co Dublin, had jointly agreed to settle the claim.

Sandra Memery, of Dunard Drive, Navan Road, Dublin, claimed she had suffered a head trauma, after walking into a Fianna Fail poster, calling for a yes vote in the second Lisbon Treaty referendum, which took place in October 2009.

As I said earlier it will probably take a death before they are banned.

Caliden

They're pointless. We see so much advertising now that we're filtering it out.

They might have made an impact 50-60 years ago when advertising was 'new' but nowadays it's just white noise. I don't know how many posters I drive by each day to work but I still wouldn't be able to name any of them off the top of my head.
They're boring and all look the same.

Ruu

Eponymous wrote: »

Agreed. Perhaps if we had some sort of voting machines we could use...

Yes, yes, we could call them 'e-voting machines'. Sounds like a great idea, might be costly but well worth it!

Sh1tbag OToole

Not a fan of the e voting as you couldnt trust it to be run in a secure manner but if everyone removed only 1 poster politicians will get the message and eventually stop wasting money on them

hjkl

I don't have a problem with the posters at all. Some people on this thread seem to have too much time on their hands imo.

the groutch

rubadub wrote: »

The majority are illegal in my area, dun laoghaire rathdown county council have clear guidelines on where they can be put.

Yeah, I've counted about 20 Nessa Childers ones below the required height.

LuckyLloyd

To address the OP directly, no there is no need for a change. Our process is robust, transparent and successful. It works.

darkpagandeath

Yes making outlandish promises you don't/have no intention of keeping should be punishable by law. Candidates should have relevant skillset for their positions. business/information technology/Law and so on. There should be some mechanism were the public can vote out incompetent ministers in times of need. And if voted out for incompetence salaries and pensions entitlements should be immediately stopped.

rubadub

frimpong wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the posters at all. Some people on this thread seem to have too much time on their hands imo.

If you were cycling at 45km/hr in the dark and got whipped in the face by a 2 foot long thick cable tie sticking out at eye level then it might change your mind. I have seen full posters blowing all around main roads, I expect a few have landed on windscreens obscuring view.

Whether you are bothered by the public having time on their hands -some authorities are then forced to use their precious time, and taxpayers money, addressing this ludicrous situation. Like the country councils.

Or road safety authority
http://www.rsa.ie/en/Utility/News/2011/RSA-Issues-Guidelines-on-Placement-of-Presidential-Election-Posters/

RSA issues guidelines on placement of Presidential Election posters

With the Presidential Election underway, the Road Safety Authority (RSA) is, today Thursday 29th September 2011, advising presidential candidates and their campaign workers of the need to take care when positioning campaign posters.

Specifically, the RSA is asking that presidential election posters not be placed in a way which obscures road signs, particularly those relating to the Rules of the Road and road user safety. These would include speed limits, traffic lights at junctions, roundabouts, warning and road works signs as well as directional signage.

“The signage on our roads is there to ensure the safety of motorists and all other road users, whether put there by the National Roads Authority, Local Authorities, the Gardaí or construction and road repair teams,” explained Mr. Noel Brett, CEO, RSA. “It is vital no action is taken which obscures signage, traffic lights or distracts road users. Particular care should be taken to ensure all posters are securely fastened so as to avoid hitting cyclists, pedestrians or vehicles.”

It is an offence to erect any sign or notice that makes a traffic sign less visible to road users (Road Traffic Act 1961, Section 95, Subsection 14)

(14) A person shall not provide any such sign, device, notice or light as is not a traffic sign if, on provision thereof, it is visible from a public road and—

(a) it is capable of being confused with a traffic sign,

(b) it makes a traffic sign provided in accordance with this section less visible to road users,

or
(c) it obstructs the view of public road users so as to render the road dangerous to them.

http://www.thejournal.ie/fianna-fail-mary-fitzpatrick-posters-1433554-Apr2014/

FIANNA FÁIL’S EUROPEAN election candidate for Dublin Mary Fitzpatrick has faced further problems with her election posters over the last 24 hours with some blocking traffic lights and others being hung in areas where they’re banned.
Fitzpatrick’s posters have already caused controversy in the last seven days after they were erected four days before they were allowed in Clontarf last weekend.
On Wednesday, a poster erected on Custom House Quay blocked traffic lights forcing the party to have then taken down as soon as it was notified by this website.
Today, on foot of another reader submission, we notified the party of another instance of Fitzpatrick’s posters blocking traffic lights along Inns Quay in Dublin city centre.
We were told they would be taken down “as a matter of priority”.Then this afternoon on Twitter, Fitzpatrick was asked to remove posters from Clondalkin village where candidates adhere to a voluntary poster ban:Finally, this evening, the Photocall picture agency snapped a poster that has been defaced on the Long Mile Road with the writing saying that the poster is hung too low:

I dunno what is going on in the minds of these fucking morons.

Piliger

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

To address the OP directly, no there is no need for a change. Our process is robust, transparent and successful. It works.

What the OP doesn't seem to grasp is the roll that these posters etc fill..

The truth of the lazy arsed human condition in cozy democracies, like Ireland is lucky to have - is that the majority of people are too WTF lazy to take an interest in politics until they have some ghastly personal mini tragedy to b1tch and moan about. But by then it's too late because the people who DID care have been the ones that got to chose the TDs. And they spend the next few years trying to persuade us that all politicians are crooks. When the real truth is most voters are apathetic lazy turds. (ok ..a little bit OTT)

The posters are needed because so many people need it plastered in front of their faces before they wake up and take elections seriously.

One reason our country's economy is in the sh1ts is because too many lazy people either didn't vote, or chose to repeatedly vote based on blind ignorant selfish reasons of spend spend spend spend and didn't give a second thought to what would happen if we ran out of money.

So the EU elections may not affect us as much as the general election, but it is still important.

Wake up and find out what's going on and VOTE.

P_1

On the continent they tend to devote a few ad hoardings for politicos to stick up their posters during election time. Surely that would be a good idea for us to follow rather than causing the current traffic hazards that our politicos seem to be fond of

JayRoc

Rhys Essien wrote: »

In 2014,idiots are still putting up posters.Cost,Environmentally bad,littering,hazards,unsightly etc.

We have to listen to crap from candidates at doors.Can they not put up Youtube videos giving information and what they hope to do.

We still have to go to polling stations.Again cost,hassle etc.Should we not be able to vote online using our PPS numbers.Get instant results,do away with recounting.

The sooner technology takes over from this crap the better.

Most people who actually vote, probably have a different take on these things than you do

LETHAL LADY

Our local neighbourhood crackpot followed a canvassing councillor around the estate with a megaphone shouting expletives and ill informed statements at the councillor. The gardai were called to take the crackpot away. I missed it all.

Banjoxed

The OP should run as a candidate and purely use online means to campaign. That would be interesting.

Banjoxed

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes making outlandish promises you don't/have no intention of keeping should be punishable by law. Candidates should have relevant skillset for their positions. business/information technology/Law and so on. There should be some mechanism were the public can vote out incompetent ministers in times of need. And if voted out for incompetence salaries and pensions entitlements should be immediately stopped.

Or there could be just simply elections. Like we have now. And voters take responsibility for their own actions in voting for candidates.

darkpagandeath

Banjoxed wrote: »

Or there could be just simply elections. Like we have now. And voters take responsibility for their own actions in voting for candidates.

I see were did we get crystal balls ? can we see into the future ? it's the voters responsibility now to know that the candidate will feather there own nests. Or give jobs to cronies and so on so forth. There is only so much a voter can know about a candidate. A seemingly honest candidate could turn out to be terrible and we have no way of removing them.

hjkl

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Our local neighbourhood crackpot followed a canvassing councillor around the estate with a megaphone shouting expletives and ill informed statements at the councillor. The gardai were called to take the crackpot away. I missed it all.

No doubt that some of people on this thread are of a similar ilk.

wendell borton

I agree with getting rid of posters and junk mail but there ballot box should remain, so I voted no.
I would have no faith in any sort of digital voting its too open to abuse.

darkpagandeath

wendell borton wrote: »

I agree with getting rid of posters and junk mail but there ballot box should remain, so I voted no.
I would have no faith in any sort of digital voting its too open to abuse.

Hate to break it to you but most of the modern world runs on computerised systems. Are you saying pieces of paper with scribbles on them are safer, Do they post back your vote to you after the election ? You know so you can check it's the one you filled out. All systems are open to abuse some more than others e.g pieces of paper.

Adamantium

Piliger wrote: »

What the OP doesn't seem to grasp is the roll that these posters etc fill..

The truth of the lazy arsed human condition in cozy democracies, like Ireland is lucky to have - is that the majority of people are too WTF lazy to take an interest in politics until they have some ghastly personal mini tragedy to b1tch and moan about. But by then it's too late because the people who DID care have been the ones that got to chose the TDs. And they spend the next few years trying to persuade us that all politicians are crooks. When the real truth is most voters are apathetic lazy turds. (ok ..a little bit OTT)

The posters are needed because so many people need it plastered in front of their faces before they wake up and take elections seriously.

One reason our country's economy is in the sh1ts is because too many lazy people either didn't vote, or chose to repeatedly vote based on blind ignorant selfish reasons of spend spend spend spend and didn't give a second thought to what would happen if we ran out of money.

So the EU elections may not affect us as much as the general election, but it is still important.

Wake up and find out what's going on and VOTE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAT_BuJAI70

Piliger

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Hate to break it to you but most of the modern world runs on computerised systems. Are you saying pieces of paper with scribbles on them are safer, Do they post back your vote to you after the election ? You know so you can check it's the one you filled out. All systems are open to abuse some more than others e.g pieces of paper.

I believe the contrary is true.

Piliger

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I see were did we get crystal balls ? can we see into the future ? it's the voters responsibility now to know that the candidate will feather there own nests. Or give jobs to cronies and so on so forth. There is only so much a voter can know about a candidate. A seemingly honest candidate could turn out to be terrible and we have no way of removing them.

It's called paying attention, educating yourself and taking responsibility.

Piliger

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes making outlandish promises you don't/have no intention of keeping should be punishable by law.

I'd like to see that circus of a court case .... dozens of them every month.

Candidates should have relevant skillset for their positions. business/information technology/Law and so on.

Ah right. So only the professional classes can run our country. What an appalling vista.

There should be some mechanism were the public can vote out incompetent ministers in times of need.

So we'd have dozens of impeachment elections all across the country every month ... fantastic idea.

And if voted out for incompetence salaries and pensions entitlements should be immediately stopped.

Will you apply the same thing to everyone else in the country with a pension ? make a mistake after thirty years in your job. Lose your job. lose your pension.

You are a fount of genius.

darkpagandeath

Ah right. So only the professional classes can run our country. What an appalling vista.

Works fine in the rest of the real world, Would you like a person from Tesco representing you in a court of law for example ? The level of understanding in relation to IT for example is shocking.

So we'd have dozens of impeachment elections all across the country every month ... fantastic idea.

You seem to be saying the system is intrinsically broken and elected officials cannot be trusted ? to need one every month. Or maybe they would not think they cant get away with what ever they like and then walk away. Most people lose there jobs in the real world when they are incompetent if they mess up they can be fired.

Will you apply the same thing to everyone else in the country with a pension ? make a mistake after thirty years in your job. Lose your job. lose your pension.

You know what is incompetence is don't you ? If people in the real world are incompetent at their job they get fired. Having mechanisms there to facilitate removal of ministers pensions would make them think twice about making incompetent decisions. You know like alot of them that have brought the country to its knees then disappeared in there Mercedes with fat pensions. Running a country is a massive responsibility. Its not like running your local corner shop into the ground.

wendell borton

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Hate to break it to you but most of the modern world runs on computerised systems. Are you saying pieces of paper with scribbles on them are safer, Do they post back your vote to you after the election ? You know so you can check it's the one you filled out. All systems are open to abuse some more than others e.g pieces of paper.

You mark voting card and put it in sealed box, box is opened at count centre, votes are then counted in full view of public. Cant really think of a more transparent and anonymous system.