2rn tariffs

Jason_

what are the capital charge and operating charge for ?

The Cush

Operating costs - costs associated with usage of the transmission network such as power costs as well as rents etc.

Capital costs - equipment costs, and costs based on usage and occupancy of infrastructure such as masts, buildings etc.

Jason_

The total annual cost for longwave 252 in 2011 was over 800k, 551k of that was operating cost.Seems very high to me.

STB

Jason_ wrote: »

The total annual cost for longwave 252 in 2011 was over 800k, 551k of that was operating cost.Seems very high to me.

Why does it seem very high ?

Jason_

STB wrote: »

Why does it seem very high ?

I had heard that the current transmitter was very cheap to run.

STB

Jason_ wrote: »

I had heard that the current transmitter was very cheap to run.

You probably heard that compared with the MW transmitter, the electricity costs of which alone was in or around a million euros, which in turn was a huge multiple of the FM TX costs.

watty

There were at least SIX MW transmitters. They were not "state of the art" so may have used 50% or more electricity than the most efficient type of AM transmitter.
The current LW TX is cheaper to run than the one Atlantic 252 used.
For the same coverage the VHF-FM wouldn't be significantly cheaper. I don't know how accurate a "Huge" multiple might be.

The relative cost of VHF-FM vs AM for a national PSB service though isn't a good metric on which to decide to close a service as VHF CAN NOT give much better than 98% to 99% coverage and PSB should be universal. Also RTE appears to have a responsibility to to deliver to the entire Island of Ireland.

VHF-FM is well suited for regional and local Radio as well as for HiFi services.

Digital TV electricity costs per channel are about 1/6th of analogue TV costs per channel.

Oddly though FOR THE SAME COVERAGE without SUDDEN CUTOUT for portable / Mobile users and the SAME quality, DAB actually costs more than VHF Radio. Due to "Digital Cliff, nearly 2.5x higher frequency etc far more TX sites are needed than for VHF-FM. Also the current 128k isn't FM quality. You need 256K bps, at which point there is only about 14% to 20% saving using DAB+, the AAC codec only saves 50% if you are doing 64k vs 128K and don't care about matching FM quality.

No truly national coverage transmission system is cheap to run! But compared with what RTE pay "presenters" whose only talents are to get the job and be able to talk they are better value. A presenter shouldn't be getting even as much as average industrial wage, should not have a "show" named after them, or promoted as "celebrities". Any of them could be replaced within a week by someone off the Dole.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Any of them could be replaced within a week by someone off the Dole.

Pat Kenny is not on the Dole.

Antenna

watty wrote: »

There were at least SIX MW transmitters.

RTE had 8 MW transmitters up to the late 1990s, from 7 sites (Cork had two frequencies 729 and 1278kHz).

all listed here:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bdxcuk/lists/am.html

(Ctrl-F and look for RTE)

The first MW TXs to close were the 3 RnaG transmitters in the west of Ireland (located in counties Kerry,Galway, Donegal).

watty wrote: »

The current LW TX is cheaper to run than the one Atlantic 252 used..

It wouldn't be a like-for-like comparison with the old one.
The current transmission is of a lower power than Atlantic 252
also
RTE Radio 1 is mostly talk - so less average power in the sidebands than was the case with the music format of Atlantic 252.

Jason_

I wonder when RnaG medium wave was closed down was their concern that their elderly listeners wouldn't be able to find them on FM ?

STB

watty wrote: »

There were at least SIX MW transmitters. They were not "state of the art" so may have used 50% or more electricity than the most efficient type of AM transmitter.
The current LW TX is cheaper to run than the one Atlantic 252 used.
For the same coverage the VHF-FM wouldn't be significantly cheaper. I don't know how accurate a "Huge" multiple might be.

Yes many of which actually switched off in 2004 (567/712 & 612/1278).

Even still, in the context of the comparison I was talking in relation of the closing of Tullamore 567 (and Cork 729) closing in 2008.

The multiple estimation from around that time was that the cost of these MW TX's equalled the cost of running 40 FM TX sites.

The two 250kw TX's run by Atlantic (I think they were actually CE's) were replaced by that transradio 300kw TX.

Atlantic

Transradio

watty

Not often the Gaelic is larger text than the English!

Thanks.

watty

Jason_ wrote: »

I wonder when RnaG medium wave was closed down was their concern that their elderly listeners wouldn't be able to find them on FM ?

I could be wrong, but I think MW RnaG was very limited coverage and only temporary till nearly nationwide VHF was available.

There was allegedly consultation over MW 2FM and later MW RTE1 closures, but I never noticed it. RTE also claim almost no-one complained, but people in this country are poor at complaining to the proper place, how good was the consultation and complaint gathering?

The reality is that the accountants decided to close MW 2FM first and then MW RTE RTE1 once the LW RTE 1 was established and NOTHING could have changed it.

Also what consultation has there been about DAB which is a total waste of Licence payer money and anticompetitive to local Radio and seriously un-green due to receiver power consumption, unfriendly user interface, poor quality due to low bit rate and inherently poorer coverage than VHF-FM?

There is LOADS to criticise RTE over, but the 2RN tariffs are seriously the wrong target. Despite what TV3 says, they are reasonable.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

There is LOADS to criticise RTE over, but the 2RN tariffs are seriously the wrong target. Despite what TV3 says, they are reasonable.

In fact, RTE are stuck with paying for two channels with no revenue that reduces the cost to TV3. TV3 have the option to close 3e if they think transmission costs are too high. I presume they still turn a few bob even at these prices.

Jason_

Since Medium wave closed down, more and more sports coverage is being transmitted on Fm on both R1 and 2fm. I think RTE should have kept Medium wave and sold 252 LW, The Guardian offered to buy 252 lw in 2002.

Radio_Fan_67

RTE paid 2rn €859,069 for longwave in 2011 but it is being said that switching it off will save "only" €250,000 per year ?

watty

They mostly only save the Electricity costs no doubt. The €859,069 is likely including all kinds of things to put it in worst light.

How much do "Presenters" cost RTE?
Managers? (They have about x2 as many as needed)
DAB in entirety? (DAB is pointless waste). Note that DAB coverage is about 50% or less and would need very many fill in relays to give FM level of portable coverage, so real cost of full DAB could be x3 or x4 current total cost.