How do you Purchase your Agronomy/Chems on cereals

GRASSorMUCK

Was speaking to a good friend down in Cork who works as a chems sales rep recently about how guys back home do things, as he says he's 3 main types of customer.. He is considering going independent(flat rate fee) but feels guys wouldn't go for it as all he would be doing is write recommendations let farmers source their own active at lowest cost from who ever, but suppliers have market too tied up. In the country that i reckon has highest/one of disease pressure environments in the world?, i reckon it would be ideal to change up the old system a bit?

1-The clueless that get him to supply everything then never spray at the correct timings if at all and usually cut back on rates 'a sher i thought i'd use the rest next time about' who's most common crop never mind variety is 'a sher SB or WW, which ever the co-op had in stock' and then moan like helll that they get crap yields in eg. 2012 or boast that its a waste using any sprays sher i got 2.5ton not using feck all in exceptional years like 2013

2-The ideal guys who have a good idea of what to use and when it should be used, might not know the latest super dooper actives but still would grow a decent crop most years. Keep an eye on new varieties but usually a little cautious but do the simple things well. Like everyone, like to be moan spending money but do know the value also.

3-The Vulture types that know what they need to know and pretty much all they want is the cost per litre of active and what the next developement in the market is and levels of efficacy still being achieved by some weakening chems like Triazoles.

Unfortunately for sustainable use of certain fungicide chems, but keeps his bosses happy type compared to his more prefered customer type is in the wrong ratio.

sheebadog

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

Was speaking to a good friend down in Cork who works as a chems sales rep recently about how guys back home do things, as he says he's 3 main types of customer.. He is considering going independent(flat rate fee) but feels guys wouldn't go for it as all he would be doing is write recommendations let farmers source their own active at lowest cost from who ever, but suppliers have market too tied up. In the country that i reckon has highest/one of disease pressure environments in the world?, i reckon it would be ideal to change up the old system a bit?

1-The clueless that get him to supply everything then never spray at the correct timings if at all and usually cut back on rates 'a sher i thought i'd use the rest next time about' who's most common crop never mind variety is 'a sher SB or WW, which ever the co-op had in stock' and then moan like helll that they get crap yields in eg. 2012 or boast that its a waste using any sprays sher i got 2.5ton not using feck all in exceptional years like 2013

2-The ideal guys who have a good idea of what to use and when it should be used, might not know the latest super dooper actives but still would grow a decent crop most years. Keep an eye on new varieties but usually a little cautious but do the simple things well. Like everyone, like to be moan spending money but do know the value also.

3-The Vulture types that know what they need to know and pretty much all they want is the cost per litre of active and what the next developement in the market is and levels of efficacy still being achieved by some weakening chems like Triazoles.

Unfortunately for sustainable use of certain fungicide chems, but keeps his bosses happy type compared to his more prefered customer type is in the wrong ratio.

I would know exactly what I want and source it at the cheapest price. Like I just bought epoxyiconazole with old formulation of 125g/l active from Denmark.

Saying that I always seek independent advice on Chems and it's almost impossible to find an agronomist who is really independent.

blue5000

I'd fall somewhere between 1 and 2. I don't have my own sprayer, so I buy what an independent(attached to liffeys) guy recommends from them where I buy seed and fert, take it to the contractors store who has the proper storage facilities.
I don't shop around for chemicals, but I reckon within a region prices are 'fixed'. Maybe if I drove 100 miles south or south east I might get a better deal. But my jeep does 25 mpg, would it be worthwhile spending €50 on diesel and driving for 4 or 5 hours?

freedominacup

blue5000 wrote: »

I'd fall somewhere between 1 and 2. I don't have my own sprayer, so I buy what an independent(attached to liffeys) guy recommends from them where I buy seed and fert, take it to the contractors store who has the proper storage facilities.
I don't shop around for chemicals, but I reckon within a region prices are 'fixed'. Maybe if I drove 100 miles south or south east I might get a better deal. But my jeep does 25 mpg, would it be worthwhile spending €50 on diesel and driving for 4 or 5 hours?

I changed from getting my contractor to supply and apply sprays a couple of years ago to doing my own spraying. A large independent merchant couldn't/wouldn't blow wind on what he was supplying the spray for the following year. Upto 30% of a difference. My contractor is covering a good few acres of his own and also has a good number of other arrangements from share cropping to total management of another farmers crop so has good purchasing power. He'd be one of G/M's vultures in a way and to add insult to injury for the merchant trade he's in a buying group with a bunch of other vultures. Some indication of the acreage they cover would be that they investigated and were close to bringing in a small shipload of fert a couple of years ago. Got stymied by the ports though. Apparently some sort of capacity issue(I think:rolleyes:) they couldn't handle anymore fert due the volume being brought in by their larger customers. There are big savings to be made on chems.

GRASSorMUCK

Thanks for replies, i know what you mean is independent truely independent, just comes down to trust over a few years and what the benefit for each might be.

Personal experience based in farm management Basis(UK Iasis) qualifications are needed to even be considered but i'm still hopeless at mixing up herbicide applications, but have a decent working knowledge of fungicides and pesticides but we have an independent Agronomist in and have 3 purchasing groups(funnily enough 2 with the same company but get different discounts on different products) You can get serviced agronomists but more often than not their like witch doctors adding in items all ready mixed in the cans like adjuvants/trace elements are another etc!! just to make a crop cosmeticaly appealing.

-Would guys buy premixed stuff or make your own from generics ie. buy straights and mix as required?

-Sheebadog is it ok if i ask where your based? as not 100% sure on legalities of ordering chems country-country regards assurance schemes as products need to be registered in a country to be used iykwim? or is it just typical UK pencil pusher job making!! i'm more used too.

-I guess until guys are brave enough to disclose what they buy and the cost per mg/l eg. Bravo(Chlorothanolin) you'll never really know, it's a bit different here where there's so much competition we usually only order what we need 1-2 days before hand and courier will deliver to the farms. I'd be hopeless backhome now too used to ordering off a screen it seems!

Bit like Thursday morning order for that afternoon we got some Bravo and a generic form of what ye call Gleam to apply on our milling wheats as gonna get caught for T1 on crops (very forward crops lush green) with weather over next 10 days maybe more (2012) might have been just a storm in a tea cup but on premium crops at low dose rate worth the insurance i hope! too long to leave otherwise unprotected.
Will get a full SDHI package on flagleafs not for stem extension i hope, bloody longtime from now until july to be stretching coverage/ timmings! (wheat more common than barley so refer to wheats more so).

GRASSorMUCK

freedominacup wrote: »

I changed from getting my contractor to supply and apply sprays a couple of years ago to doing my own spraying. A large independent merchant couldn't/wouldn't blow wind on what he was supplying the spray for the following year. Upto 30% of a difference. My contractor is covering a good few acres of his own and also has a good number of other arrangements from share cropping to total management of another farmers crop so has good purchasing power. He'd be one of G/M's vultures in a way and to add insult to injury for the merchant trade he's in a buying group with a bunch of other vultures. Some indication of the acreage they cover would be that they investigated and were close to bringing in a small shipload of fert a couple of years ago. Got stymied by the ports though. Apparently some sort of capacity issue(I think:rolleyes:) they couldn't handle anymore fert due the volume being brought in by their larger customers. There are big savings to be made on chems.

I guess it works for you but trust is very important, he can almost count on the work when budgeting, you can get inputs cheaper and as long as he can get to you in decent time with weather etc your happy enough.? Have heard of guys like this bring in bulk orders of fert/enquiring as you say did the same happen with bringing in chems like shebadog mentioned or do they just bulk order the standard and mix/match to suit the season if more chems needed?

GRASSorMUCK

blue5000 wrote: »

I'd fall somewhere between 1 and 2. I don't have my own sprayer, so I buy what an independent(attached to liffeys) guy recommends from them where I buy seed and fert, take it to the contractors store who has the proper storage facilities.
I don't shop around for chemicals, but I reckon within a region prices are 'fixed'. Maybe if I drove 100 miles south or south east I might get a better deal. But my jeep does 25 mpg, would it be worthwhile spending €50 on diesel and driving for 4 or 5 hours?

Never know if you had a few neighbours with similar cropping could bulk order delivered to one site with multiple copies of the invoice sent to each recipient and collect at delivery yard. Can be a scary amount of money on a pallet granted more so when dealing with herbicides(bout few weeks too late says you! ) but worth enquiring at least?

sheebadog

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

Thanks for replies, i know what you mean is independent truely independent, just comes down to trust over a few years and what the benefit for each might be.

Personal experience based in farm management Basis(UK Iasis) qualifications are needed to even be considered but i'm still hopeless at mixing up herbicide applications, but have a decent working knowledge of fungicides and pesticides but we have an independent Agronomist in and have 3 purchasing groups(funnily enough 2 with the same company but get different discounts on different products) You can get serviced agronomists but more often than not their like witch doctors adding in items all ready mixed in the cans like adjuvants/trace elements are another etc!! just to make a crop cosmeticaly appealing.

-Would guys buy premixed stuff or make your own from generics ie. buy straights and mix as required?

-Sheebadog is it ok if i ask where your based? as not 100% sure on legalities of ordering chems country-country regards assurance schemes as products need to be registered in a country to be used iykwim? or is it just typical UK pencil pusher job making!! i'm more used too.

-I guess until guys are brave enough to disclose what they buy and the cost per mg/l eg. Bravo(Chlorothanolin) you'll never really know, it's a bit different here where there's so much competition we usually only order what we need 1-2 days before hand and courier will deliver to the farms. I'd be hopeless backhome now too used to ordering off a screen it seems!

Bit like Thursday morning order for that afternoon we got some Bravo and a generic form of what ye call Gleam to apply on our milling wheats as gonna get caught for T1 on crops (very forward crops lush green) with weather over next 10 days maybe more (2012) might have been just a storm in a tea cup but on premium crops at low dose rate worth the insurance i hope! too long to leave otherwise unprotected.
Will get a full SDHI package on flagleafs not for stem extension i hope, bloody longtime from now until july to be stretching coverage/ timmings! (wheat more common than barley so refer to wheats more so).

The Opus that I sourced abroad had to be relabelled in French as I work there.
If scrutinised at customs on the borders I could have been in bother!!
Chlorothanonil I sourced in Germany. Same story!

Opus 125g/litre = €17/ litre
Bravo 500g/litre = €4.44/litre

I don't use any of the new Chems like SDHI's much as don't have the disease pressure.
I get on fine here with the likes of Opus, Sportak etc.

Couldn't agree more on proper independant advice though!