life

Do you think modern life has got too complex for most people, for example when I was a child you basically got fed, went to school, and played with you friends, and maybe went out on Sunday afternoon with you parents and that was it parents weren't hovering over you wondering about good schools or nurturing you self esteem and happiness. If a child was raised today the way I was it would be considered neglect that just one example another is the change from the idea of having a job to the idea of having a career( which of course must be fulfilling and make you happy ) Then there is the pressure to look a certain way, have a certain type of house ( in an area with good school and miles away from any hint of antisocial behaviour ) along with that relationships with you partner should be mutely emotionally, mentally and sexually fulfilling all the time. After all that you should be a perfect parent or you will be judged harshly.

nelly17

Is that not evolution in action?

jimgoose

As a species we do have a knack for making things outrageously complicated and difficult for ourselves.

Mr. Incognito

Need a hug?

D1stant

I blame the meejah

When we only had RTE1, no internet and couldn't read things were so much simpler

D1stant

D1stant wrote: »

I blame the meejah

When we only had RTE1, no internet and couldn't read things were so much simpler

I think there is a grain of truth in that, the internet is great, however accesses to all that information is often not good for people.

Dravokivich

I don't think things have become directly complicated for their own sake. Expectations have been raised a tremendous amount which results in something becoming complicated as a result.

Then again, you're looking at those simple times from a simple perspective. When you were a child, it's likely you wouldn't remember all the detail of what your parents were doing around you. I'd honestly say I was quite ignorant of it.

When we're taking care of our kid, be it feeding, cleaning, changing nappies. Sometimes I wonder if he realises how much both my girlfriend and I do for him at the time. Things weren't easier when we were kids, we were oblivious to it.

mikom

You can basically insure against anything these days........... what a load of bollix.
Can someone insure you won't become a drone made out of cardboard?

The One Doctor

mariaalice wrote: »

Do you think modern life has got too complex for most people, for example when I was a child you basically got fed, went to school, and played with you friends, and maybe went out on Sunday afternoon with you parents and that was it parents weren't hovering over you wondering about good schools or nurturing you self esteem and happiness. If a child was raised today the way I was it would be considered neglect that just one example another is the change from the idea of having a job to the idea of having a career( which of course must be fulfilling and make you happy ) Then there is the pressure to look a certain way, have a certain type of house ( in an area with good school and miles away from any hint of antisocial behaviour ) along with that relationships with you partner should be mutely emotionally, mentally and sexually fulfilling all the time. After all that you should be a perfect parent or you will be judged harshly.

You're believing what you read in the media and see on TV. Stop it, it's not healthy.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

AnonoBoy

mariaalice wrote: »

Do you think modern life has got too complex for most people, for example when I was a child you basically got fed, went to school, and played with you friends, and maybe went out on Sunday afternoon with you parents

So what you're saying is life is more complicated for you now as an adult than they were for you as a child?

"Stop the press folks, we got a new front page for tomorrow's edition!"

cian68

Children today will grow up thinking their childhood was a simple time when they just went to school and played with their friends.

The One Doctor

The One Doctor wrote: »

You're believing what you read in the media and see on TV. Stop it, it's not healthy.

That true, however just look at the replies you would get if someone put a post saying " in my estate a five year old is on playing on the green with no parents with them" or some such nonsense the replies will come tick and fast saying the parent(s) are a disgrace(I was allowed out on my own at 5 ) that's just one example.

Neyite

D1stant wrote: »

I blame the meejah

When we only had RTE1, no internet and couldn't read things were so much simpler

When we only had the priest telling us what to do it was so much simpler.

Philo Beddoe

mariaalice wrote: »

Do you think modern life has got too complex for most people, for example when I was a child you basically got fed, went to school, and played with you friends, and maybe went out on Sunday afternoon with you parents and that was it parents weren't hovering over you wondering about good schools or nurturing you self esteem and happiness. If a child was raised today the way I was it would be considered neglect that just one example another is the change from the idea of having a job to the idea of having a career( which of course must be fulfilling and make you happy ) Then there is the pressure to look a certain way, have a certain type of house ( in an area with good school and miles away from any hint of antisocial behaviour ) along with that relationships with you partner should be mutely emotionally, mentally and sexually fulfilling all the time. After all that you should be a perfect parent or you will be judged harshly.

All these things you describe are aspirational. You don't have to do any of this, but why not try? Why shouldn't we want our children to have more than we had? Why shouldn't we want a fulfilling career or relationship? Shouldn't we aspire to communicate without the use of run-on sentences?

cian68

cian68 wrote: »

Children today will grow up thinking their childhood was a simple time when they just went to school and played with their friends.

Some might but the vast majority will remember a life spent with child-minder or in a crèche when they were very will minded and entertained by adults, they will not have a childhood where there was very little interaction with adults and a childhood where you were expected to entertain yourself.

The other point that interreges me is the good schools thing years and years ago when buying a house, such a notion never occurred to anyone the information was not there a school was a school and that was it.

mikom

mariaalice wrote: »

The other point that interreges me is the good schools thing years and years ago when buying a house, such a notion never occurred to anyone the information was not there a school was a school and that was it.

What was that about schools?

Graces7

jacksie66 wrote: »

It's funny when you say to a kid nowadays that you remember a time before the internet..

try telling anyone you remember life before television, which i do very well...;)

D1stant

If you examine all the major milestones and expectations in life of now versus say the 70s/80s. Things are more complicated. There are more rules/regulations/red tape around virtually every aspect of life and there is constant pressure to be perfect that is hard to ignore when you are being bombarded by every picture and screen.

The OP is right

OldNotWIse

Agree. I remember when TV actually went off at night, and they had that creepy picture with the girl hugging a clown or something. Parents frequently did a "McCann" on us because it was just too expensive to bring kids out. I remember running around a mobile home/caravan park looking in the restaurant window with a gang of other "orphans" while our parents dined inside. Not to mention, if you did something in school and your parents were called in, you'd sh1t yourself cause there was no way they were taking your side!

mikom

mikom wrote: »

What was that about schools?

A long time ago when I was first in the marked to buy house the only thing was could you afford it and maybe was the back garden sunny, now it all about is it in the catchment area for such and such a school or it must be miles away from such and such an area, now I am not saying its a bad thing that people look at such issues but it just makes life more complicated.

Graces7

interesting thread; thank you

well, i simply simplified life for many reasons. no tv or radio. i keep up with events in my time on the internet. had many years being almost totally housebound and it threw me back on my own resources wondrfuyll

never had much money and as long as i have enough to live simply on, that is fine. things do not interest me

i dont do social networking as i like to meet folk i email. only here so much just now as am on bedrest a lot after the accident when my wrist was broken etc

would never dream of letting anyone dictate how i should live..so many kids these days are over educated and fit for little.

allibastor

jacksie66 wrote: »

It's funny when you say to a kid nowadays that you remember a time before the internet..

My nine year old doesn't believe me that Gameboys were once black and white!! and not in 3d. I kid you not.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

parents weren't nurturing you self esteem and happiness.

another is the change from the idea of having a job to the idea of having a career( which of course must be fulfilling and make you happy )

God forbid parents would want their children to be happy or fulfilled

Dravokivich

mariaalice wrote: »

Some might but the vast majority will remember a life spent with child-minder or in a crèche when they were very will minded and entertained by adults, they will not have a childhood where there was very little interaction with adults and a childhood where you were expected to entertain yourself.

The other point that interreges me is the good schools thing years and years ago when buying a house, such a notion never occurred to anyone the information was not there a school was a school and that was it.

But these are very different times now when you take into account the costs involved to support a household. When I was younger it was possible for my ma to be the sole earner and she cold afford mortgage, bills, groceries, clothes, schoolbooks with 5 kids and a holiday every 2 or 3 years.

A lot of young couples these day who'd be of the same age as my ma back then both have to work now just for rent, bills, groceries. Let alone the cost of childcare.

I'm still not getting this "Things were less complicated for me when I was a kid" vibe at all.

OldNotWIse

bluewolf wrote: »

God forbid parents would want their children to be happy or fulfilled

Thats all my parents ever wanted for their children, but they managed to avoid obsessive helicopter parenting.

Wicklowrider

jacksie66 wrote: »

It's funny when you say to a kid nowadays that you remember a time before the internet..

after working most of my life outdoors in manual type work, I got sick in my middle age and had to find alternative ways to earn money. I studied hard and got a a job in the tech sector. Now I was working with people less than half my age. One Christmas a lad wa splaying mp3's and I mentioned I had the song on vinyl. Suddenly people were interested and I described the thing we did when I wa stheir ages - like taping songs off the radio etc. When I got describing our first TV - timber boxed, tiny b&w screen and waiting for it to "warm up" they thought I was pulling their legs.

bluewolf wrote: »

God forbid parents would want their children to be happy or fulfilled

Huh?
I was very fulfilled cycling around wicklow, climbing the rocks from the sea up the side of Bray Head and doing a hundred other things without Ma & Da wrapping me in cotton wool. Creche ? is that something you put chocolate sauce on?

Wicklowrider

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Huh?
I was very fulfilled cycling around wicklow, climbing the rocks from the sea up the side of Bray Head and doing a hundred other things without Ma & Da wrapping me in cotton wool. Creche ? is that something you put chocolate sauce on?

She is having nostalgia for times when "parents weren't nuturing your self esteem or happiness".
Firstly I don't know if that is true and secondly, why... would she prefer that

Zillah

mariaalice wrote: »

Do you think modern life has got too complex for most people, for example when I was a child you basically got fed, went to school, and played with you friends, and maybe went out on Sunday afternoon with you parents and that was it parents weren't hovering over you wondering about good schools or nurturing you self esteem and happiness. If a child was raised today the way I was it would be considered neglect that just one example another is the change from the idea of having a job to the idea of having a career( which of course must be fulfilling and make you happy ) Then there is the pressure to look a certain way, have a certain type of house ( in an area with good school and miles away from any hint of antisocial behaviour ) along with that relationships with you partner should be mutely emotionally, mentally and sexually fulfilling all the time. After all that you should be a perfect parent or you will be judged harshly.

Is wanting a good school for your children a bad thing?
Is wanting to be happy and fulfilled a bad thing?
Living away from antisocial behaviour?

This is the most post I've seen in a long time.

It's very Irish though. Look at you and your notions about yerself; up there on your high horse with your laptop and nice haircut. Back in my day we got a potato and a good sermon and that was all we needed. Oooooh la de da, look at this fella with no holes in his shoes, well sorry to get in your way your majesty!

OldNotWIse

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Thats all my parents ever wanted for their children, but they managed to avoid obsessive helicopter parenting.

Um... good for them

Lyaiera

It's weird going back through old newspapers, even back to the turn of the 20th century people were complaining about the same things: youth gone wild, disrespecting their elders, and having sex! People were complaining that they were too time pressed and never had time to themselves, etc. However I do think there's a validity to the idea that people are more stressed now.

There was an article I read about prisoners in an American jail and how they reduced violence within a group of them. Basically they got them knitting. Despite having big long metal stabby things on them the amount of violence reduced between the knitters: knitting was found to be therapeutic. The science behind the reduced prisoner agitation was that manual activities and dexterous activities occupied a certain part of the brain while leaving another part free to work on problems. The prisoners weren't concious of that part of their brain working out internal issues, but it was still doing so at a certain subconscious level and this left the prisoners more relaxed and less agitated.

The thing with this is that it took specific types of activity to achieve this effect. It doesn't work when the communication part of the brain is occupied, and that's what most people working today have active non-stop: reading e-mails, reading documents, writing or being on the phone. That part of the brain needs to be free for a certain portion of the day to process ancillary, personal issues. This is worsened when people come home and go straight to watching TV, onto a computer or reading books.

Basically, they found that the whole "manual labour made people more relaxed thing" is sort of true. It isn't so much physically strenuous activity as it is activity that keeps you concentrated on doing things (knitting, woodworking, painting and even a lot of exercise that needs you to pay attention to what you're doing,) while leaving the communication part of the brain free to work on other things.

RoboRat

when I was a child you basically got fed, went to school, and played with you friends, and maybe went out on Sunday afternoon with you parents and that was it parents weren't hovering over you wondering about good schools or nurturing you self esteem and happiness.

Sounds like my sons life today

If a child was raised today the way I was it would be considered neglect

I agree that the world has gone PC mad at times but I raise my son the way I was raised.

Another is the change from the idea of having a job to the idea of having a career (which of course must be fulfilling and make you happy)

A career is just another name for a job, much the same way as flats became apartments

Then there is the pressure to look a certain way, have a certain type of house (in an area with good school and miles away from any hint of antisocial behaviour) along with that relationships with you partner should be mutely emotionally, mentally and sexually fulfilling all the time. After all that you should be a perfect parent or you will be judged harshly.

I'm 37 and that was the norm when I was at school so not changed much really.

I think you are looking to deep OP, people always look at their own childhood with rose tinted glasses. I always remember this quote to put everything into perspective:

"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers"

Socrates (not the Brazilian footballer!)

Nurturing a healthy sense of self esteem and realising talents are good things, as is being involved in your kids edumaction.

I know some kids who have an activity planned for every free second, and instead of playing with friends, they have carefully orchestrated play dates with parents in constant view. I know in the past kids went out to play after breakfast and weren't expected back until dinner, but the pendulum belongs somewhere between the two extremes imo, or they'll never learn to amuse themselves or develop independence. Important skills in themselves.

bluewolf

bluewolf wrote: »

She is having nostalgia for times when "parents weren't nuturing your self esteem or happiness".
Firstly I don't know if that is true and secondly, why... would she prefer that

I am not saying one is better that the other, I don't think anyone can say that. I am saying that life for a lot of people today is very complex in a way it never was in the past, accesses to information all day every alone is making life vastly more complicated. I am not saying the way I was parented was better that todays ways of doing things, but it was not as complex as parenting is today.

eisenberg1

Wicklowrider wrote: »

. Creche ? is that something you put chocolate sauce on?

No, its a car accident in Foxrock:D

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

I am not saying one is better that the other, I don't think anyone can say that. I am saying that life for a lot of people today is very complex in a way it never was in the past, accesses to information all day every alone is making life vastly more complicated. I am not saying the way I was parented was better that todays ways of doing things, but it was not as complex as parenting is today.

Previous generations had bigger families, so the investment in each child in a family of seven kids was much smaller than the individual investment in a family of two kids. Herding and raising seven kids was probably every bit as complicated as people have made raising two kids today.

The world is more complicated anyway, there are more obstacles for kids to negotiate, like greater educational expectation, higher competition for work, social media and it's possible pitfalls (remember Slane Girl?). It's not necessarily the parents making it more complicated, it's parents responding to greater complications and expectations. There's more to learn, more to do, and less certainty about everything. Greater awareness of crime, propelled by moral panic is a big issue with the helicoptering.

Candie

Candie wrote: »

Previous generations had bigger families, so the investment in each child in a family of seven kids was much smaller than the individual investment in a family of two kids. Herding and raising seven kids was probably every bit as complicated as people have made raising two kids today.

The world is more complicated anyway, there are more obstacles for kids to negotiate, like greater educational expectation, higher competition for work, social media and it's possible pitfalls (remember Slane Girl?). It's not necessarily the parents making it more complicated, it's parents responding to greater complications and expectations. There's more to learn, more to do, and less certainty about everything. Greater awareness of crime, propelled by moral panic is a big issue with the helicoptering.

You have explained it better that I could and thats only one aspect of life, on the other had we are living longer and have better health care maybe that balances things a bit.

orangesoda

yes, i believe i would have fitted in more in medieval times, basing your life on trying to take over the neighbouring O'Donnells lands

OldNotWIse

bluewolf wrote: »

Um... good for them

Yes it is. Good for me too

OldNotWIse

Candie wrote: »

Previous generations had bigger families, so the investment in each child in a family of seven kids was much smaller than the individual investment in a family of two kids. Herding and raising seven kids was probably every bit as complicated as people have made raising two kids today.

The world is more complicated anyway, there are more obstacles for kids to negotiate, like greater educational expectation, higher competition for work, social media and it's possible pitfalls (remember Slane Girl?). It's not necessarily the parents making it more complicated, it's parents responding to greater complications and expectations. There's more to learn, more to do, and less certainty about everything. Greater awareness of crime, propelled by moral panic is a big issue with the helicoptering.

Good post. The sad thing about helicoptering is that statistically, the monster is more likely to be someone known and trusted by the family and often, its just about luck. The likes of Jamie Bolger who was snatched when his mother turned for 2 seconds for example. Parents always try to blame other parents for irresponsible parenting when these things happen, but its usually an attempt to distinguish themselves, so they can pretend it will never happen to them.

Candie, that's a very good point are we making it more complex for ourselves or are we responding to a more a more complex environment around us.

There are no wrong or rights in all this its not that sort of question.

Adamantium

I was never told what to as a kid and oddly enough I drifted towards being disciplined all of my own accord.

My parents said they didn't want me to hauled around to every activity that they wanted me to go, as they saw alot of that with regards to GAA and the like, but were than happy too if I wanted to.

I remember wondering "are these kids enjoying it, or are they there to live out their parents wishes"

The stuff I really like, I really like and I am enthusiastic in it, rather than what a lot of people who seem feel expected (by their own admission) to be "wowed" on simplistic inane drivel.

playedalive

Candie wrote: »

The world is more complicated anyway, there are more obstacles for kids to negotiate, like greater educational expectation, higher competition for work, social media and it's possible pitfalls (remember Slane Girl?). It's not necessarily the parents making it more complicated, it's parents responding to greater complications and expectations. There's more to learn, more to do, and less certainty about everything. Greater awareness of crime, propelled by moral panic is a big issue with the helicoptering.

This.

Definitely the world comes across as more complex. Particularly for young people these days (well I say this as a twenty something). I have definitely found the world a very confusing place. I think it is due to so many possibilities out there than before. Social media is definitely one where our way of communicating is more artificial, in the sense that we don't communicate emotion or feelings like we do in spoken language. We can easily construe meaning from things and misunderstanding of message can spiral out of control. Sure, these days, we hear about 'viral attacks' on social media in relation to celebrities. Whether that is intentional or meaning is construed and people respond in their own way.

Then, there is a better awareness of other facets of the human condition, such as mental health and sexuality. Things that usually weren't commonplace to talk about are now so commonplace and so much can be found on the internet and from different people. As a gay man myself, it's amazing how open people are to sexuality these days to the extent that people explore the grey areas of sexuality and that you can be attracted to both genders, people without specific genitalia, etc. Similarly, mental health is less of a taboo issue and people communicate their feelings and we can understand how our thought processes can be so complex and difficult to cope with.

Then, the idea of getting a job and succeeding in the employment market is so diverse and confusing. Gone be the days that people want to bother wanting to take you on and train you up (unless it's a really niche job that has no cognate qualification/expertise). It's not enough to show that you're hardworking and have certain talents. You need to have certain qualifications and demonstrate work experience to boot. Particularly when you're young, it can just be so demoralising.

Hell Ram

cian68 wrote: »

Children today will grow up thinking their childhood was a simple time when they just went to school and played with their friends.

...via Xbox Live.

FullblownRose

It's different, it's changed, it's actually better now. People are more enlightened and taking a much more active role in their childrens lives instead of delegating their education to the school and keeping them out from under their feet- instead they are enjoying participating in their childrens education.

FullblownRose

It sounds like some people are bewildered about it though..hm

eisenberg1

FullblownRose wrote: »

It's different, it's changed, it's actually better now. People are more enlightened and taking a much more active role in their childrens lives instead of delegating their education to the school and keeping them out from under their feet- instead they are enjoying participating in their childrens education.

Not strictly true, some people always did that, and some don't do it now.

snaphook

The human way is to take very simple concepts and if they are deemed important then they must be made incredibly complex.

FullblownRose

eisenberg1 wrote: »

Not strictly true, some people always did that, and some don't do it now.

You're absolutely right but I believe it is more the culture nowadays so it's more the norm. And I just think it's a good thing.

Spring Onion

nelly17 wrote: »

Is that not evolution in action?

No.

eisenberg1

FullblownRose wrote: »

You're absolutely right but I believe it is more the culture nowadays so it's more the norm. And I just think it's a good thing.

Sometimes, for some people, it can be more like a feeling of sensory overload, adverts, people telling you "you have to have X", your life is not complete unless you have such a car/TV. Only recently I have friends telling me "you HAVE to get the Ipad". I am a luddite, I can just about use my laptop, I don't need Ipads, Iphones etc , I just use my phone to text/call, period. Anything else I get is just more sh1t to plug in and charge, I have survived till now without all that. I think of some of the things I did as child, robbing orchards, playing on railway lines, swimming in some very dangerous places etc. Would I let my kids do the same? not in all cases, but you have to learn to climb a tree, and learn that if you fall from a slide or a swing, and get a 2cm gash, you don't have to sue the ass off someone.