Is the art of problem solving a dying art?

RoboRat

I think that people nowadays cant seem to take a bit of initiative and try to figure out a problem before they call for help. Once it doesn't work or there is an issue they cant seem to at least try and fix it. Several examples from this week alone:

(1) Had to do a 120 km round trip to fix a till, I am not qualified to fix such things but 'I seem to have knack' in other words, I actually try. The problem was that the till lead wasn't connected.
(2) Told the washing machine was broken when the filter had just blocked. A simple google search of the make/ model and problem told me as much and also explained how to fix it.
(3) Toast caught in the toaster... can't get it out. I unplugged it, turned it upside down and quite easily freed the imprisoned toast.
(4) Can't install outlook, I managed to do it quite simply by just going through the auto set-up wizard.
(5) Sky not working yet when I google what to do, I just switched it off, unplugged and when it restarted it was fine.

There are loads more instances, even people on these boards can't seem to google stuff!

Barely There

98.4% of IT issues can be solved by shutting down and re-starting.

Knex*

Barely There wrote: »

98.4% of IT issues can be solved by shutting down and re-starting.

72% of all facts you read on the internet are completely fictional.

The King of Moo

I've figured out the answer to your question.

Knex*

The King of Moo wrote: »

I've figured out the answer to your question.

OP, you're out. We've a got new 'fixer'.

Artful_Badger

Google is part of the problem. People are too use to having the answer handed to them, having their hands held or getting someone else to do it for them. And given its so easy to avoid having to do it yourself these days people develop the habit of always looking for help and never actually develop problem solving skills.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

What about the lost art of keeping a secret? Nothings fecking private any more, lol-omg-totes...FUCK SAKE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l0nzPpvbFs

kneemos

The King of Moo wrote: »

I've figured out the answer to your question.

I like your initiative.
How does 30k sound'

Call Me Jimmy

I find there's never a lack of problems to be solved.

kneemos

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

What about the lost art of keeping a secret? Nothings fecking private any more, lol-omg-totes...FUCK SAKE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l0nzPpvbFs

The first line of your posts is always fcuked up,presumably because of your username.

NTMK

My job is 99% problem solving and the more it dies the better off i am:pac:

gugleguy

Poroblem solving is a dying art in today's Irish society. The replacement philosophy is based on one of entitlement, and 'they who shout the loudest' gets what they want.

danniemcq

Barely There wrote: »

98.4% of IT issues can be solved by shutting down and re-starting.

I have a thing called the google tax.

If the solution to your problem is solved by restarting your PC or on the first page of Google when you do a search then guess what you owe me. However if neither of these work then its free.

J_E

More recently I've tried to consciously make the decision to work things out for myself rather than immediately getting the solution online. I think it's a little more rewarding and always a good practice for your mind.

mike65

I have never called out a man to fix something in my house (but I have to the car - modern auto electrics are designed not to be fixed by mortals).

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

kneemos wrote: »

The first line of your posts is always fcuked up,presumably because of your username.

Can you at least enjoy the song I posted?

KeithTS

RoboRat wrote: »

(2) Told the washing machine was broken when the filter had just blocked. A simple google search of the make/ model and problem told me as much and also explained how to fix it.

(4) Can't install outlook, I managed to do it quite simply by just going through the auto set-up wizard.
(5) Sky not working yet when I google what to do, I just switched it off, unplugged and when it restarted it was fine.

Based on this, yes the art of solving a problem is dead. Googling is great but hardly problem solving. Nor is getting toast out of a toaster.

I think the problem is more like stupid people are stupid, end of!

jimgoose

This kind of thing rolls around every so often when society gets too comfortable and loses the ability to think as the necessity for it fades. What we need is a good old-fashioned Mad Max-style apocalyptic event, followed by a descent into primitive tribalism and Jungle law. And that'll furkan learn 'em.

groovie

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

What about the lost art of keeping a secret? Nothings fecking private any more, lol-omg-totes...FUCK SAKE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l0nzPpvbFs

Great tune, and an outstanding user name. May I call you Tanga?

Chet T16

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Google is part of the problem. People are too use to having the answer handed to them, having their hands held or getting someone else to do it for them. And given its so easy to avoid having to do it yourself these days people develop the habit of always looking for help and never actually develop problem solving skills.

Why waste time figuring out a solution that already exists?

hardCopy

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Google is part of the problem. People are too use to having the answer handed to them, having their hands held or getting someone else to do it for them. And given its so easy to avoid having to do it yourself these days people develop the habit of always looking for help and never actually develop problem solving skills.

Most people won't even google. I get asked to fix people's PCs all the time because I "understand these things". In reality all I do is type the name of whatever pop-up or search hijack they have into google and find some forum with a well written solution. Anyone could do it but like the OP said, I just get asked because I have the patience to spend an hour reading tech forums and try a few potential solutions.

The One Who Knocks

Barely There wrote: »

98.4% of IT issues can be solved by shutting down and re-starting.

68.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I think it come from a mind-set/social policy objective...that says/believes that every problem/ situation can be fixed if only the right solution could be found or if enough money was spent on it and that the government or state can solve everything for everyone and the reality is the state cant solve every problem and nor should they.

It almost a denial of the realities of human nature and the complexes of life.

kneemos

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Can you at least enjoy the song I posted?

Not bad.Needs a scrotal trauma for the high notes though.

thegreatgonzo

RoboRat wrote: »

I think that people nowadays cant seem to take a bit of initiative and try to figure out a problem before they call for help. Once it doesn't work or there is an issue they cant seem to at least try and fix it. Several examples from this week alone:

(1) Had to do a 120 km round trip to fix a till, I am not qualified to fix such things but 'I seem to have knack' in other words, I actually try. The problem was that the till lead wasn't connected.
(2) Told the washing machine was broken when the filter had just blocked. A simple google search of the make/ model and problem told me as much and also explained how to fix it.
(3) Toast caught in the toaster... can't get it out. I unplugged it, turned it upside down and quite easily freed the imprisoned toast.
(4) Can't install outlook, I managed to do it quite simply by just going through the auto set-up wizard.
(5) Sky not working yet when I google what to do, I just switched it off, unplugged and when it restarted it was fine.

There are loads more instances, even people on these boards can't seem to google stuff!

A lot of the time people are afraid of breaking expensive equipment they know nothing about if they go meddling at it. If it keeps you in employment plugging till leads back in or whatever it's a nice complaint to have.

Ray Palmer

I think part of the problem is many things are becoming more complex and intentionally made to be unserviceable. It has a cumulative effect on people not willing to attempt a fix as it becomes so frustrating. There is also fear of what people don't understand. When dealing with my mother there is no point telling her stuff and just give her simple instructions to follow, she will not deviate from those instructions.

The introduction of security screws on things is something that annoys me. No other reason than to stop people opening a device to fix it. I have come across appliance with security screws and also glued. Some have a special solvent required to remove the glue in order to open it.

Then you just have people who are lazy

Artful_Badger

Chet T16 wrote: »

Why waste time figuring out a solution that already exists?

I'm just saying if every solution can be handed to you you dont need to know how to actually solve problems so you wont develop problem solving skills. Stands to reason.

gugleguy

jimgoose wrote: »

This kind of thing rolls around every so often when society gets too comfortable and loses the ability to think as the necessity for it fades. What we need is a good old-fashioned Mad Max-style apocalyptic event, followed by a descent into primitive tribalism and Jungle law. And that'll furkan learn 'em.

An alternative movie in the same vane is "The Postman" featuring Kevin Costner as a survivor of a post apocalyptic event who takes on the roll of unifier of civilized surviving population.

jimgoose

Ray Palmer wrote: »

...The introduction of security screws on things is something that annoys me. No other reason than to stop people opening a device to fix it. I have come across appliance with security screws and also glued. Some have a special solvent required to remove the glue in order to open it...

Acetone, a.k.a. nail-polish remover, plus this:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/rolson-100-part-power-bit-set-n26an

Sorted. :cool:

Teyla Emmagan

Increasingly people can't use their hands. As in, basic DIY or mending clothes, or fixing a fence. It's just a product of modern society. People grow up in homes where their parents work in offices and don't pass on any skills (because they don't have them), and they have to ring 'a man' to get anything done. It's pretty sad really. I work with a youth group and often see 14 year olds who have never seen a can opener and haven't a clue how to start using it. And then I have friends who have rewired their own houses or tiled bathrooms (and would be software engineers in real life). They are in the minority though. I think it's terribly sad that people aren't more self sufficient to be honest. It's a real bonus for any kid to grow up in a house where people are able to make their own stuff, or fix their own stuff and give them some practical skills for life. Because then you're able to apply the same process, or at least not be afraid to give it a shot, instead of just thinking 'this is clearly beyond me'.

And some people have no lateral thinking skills whatsoever. If it doesn't work (be it a software application, or a washing machine) they don't even know where to start. They don't apply any sort of reasoning to the issue, just look at it helplessly until 'the man' comes and fixes it for them. I got a day's work out of a place where the database administrator couldn't figure out an issue and I was called in (I basically know f all about databases either). He'd been looking at this error message for a week and couldn't figure it out. I googled the error message and followed the instructions to fix it. Hey presto. Took about an hour.

He was a proper case of thick to be fair though.

Ray Palmer

jimgoose wrote: »

Acetone, a.k.a. nail-polish remover, plus this:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/rolson-100-part-power-bit-set-n26an

Sorted. :cool:

I have that stuff. Nail polish remover doesn't work on some of the glues now as they use their own glue that requires something else. It is done intentionally to try and stop you that is the point.

Some parts are put together using special tools now that you can't possibly have unless you work for the company. Cars have specialist software that only an official authorised dealer can have. It even effects simple things like changing the light bulbs are new breaks.

Planned obsolescence and protectionary practices will eventually be challenged in the EU and stopped it is just taking time.

gugleguy

Quite a few individuals I know have full driving licence. The same folk are not the slightest bit interested and don't want to know what goes on underneath the bonnet where the engine sits. Their knowlege of engine will simply as far as that light on the dashboard which tells them the engine needs a service. And when they have to submit the car for the NCT test - that's right, arrange a service beforehand.

jimgoose

Ray Palmer wrote: »

...Some parts are put together using special tools now that you can't possibly have unless you work for the company. Cars have specialist software that only an official authorised dealer can have. It even effects simple things like changing the light bulbs are new breaks...

Well, some people can make tools. It's true that the VAG group, for example, have taken to using ribe/Polydrive fasteners a lot, but this tooling is easy to get. And at least the core powertrain OBD-II stuff is standardized and open under EU statute.

seamus

KeithTS wrote: »

Based on this, yes the art of solving a problem is dead. Googling is great but hardly problem solving.

Well it can be to a certain extent. Few problems are formulaic, i.e. "If X happens, fix it by doing Y", and often a google search will bring up something which explains the mechanism behind the problem and suggest possible solutions.
This is the essence of problem-solving; understanding the cause allows you to theorise potential solutions.

I believe there is a problem with the way we teach children to handle problems, both in real life and in the education system. With the exception of the math-based sciences, the majority of education is about providing information or a process and then learning to memorise and repeat it.

This worked in the past, where the majority of jobs were formulaic and involved manually repeating a process over and over all day, then going home.
Modern work is not like this. If a process is manual and repeatable, it will be automated.
The modern world requires the ability to adapt your existing knowledge to deal with new challenges; the essence of problem-solving; but we don't really practice this at all in our education system.

Even the maths-based sciences are suffering from this a bit as exams are dumbed down so that a student who knows the process for performing integral maths, for example, learns to recognise when a question requires integral maths, and then repeat that process. They don't actually learn why they are doing integral maths and what they are describing, they are mindlessly applying a documented process to a formulaic issue, and are therefore not "solving" any maths problem.

The entire way we educate people needs to move away from a "tick all the right boxes and get a prize" model to one where you are challenged to think about what it is you're doing.

There's a picture going around the web making fun of programming books where they describe a relatively simple concept and then the "now try this problem" exercise is a couple of steps above the example in difficulty. In reality this is the correct way to educate. Having someone do something they already know how to do, doesn't improve their education. You need to constantly challenge them to do something that's just slightly beyond their current level of ability. That's how you learn. And it's how you learn to solve problems without immediately running to someone else for help.

gugleguy

More and more, Irish Society, especially prefers to be SPOON - FED.

mikom

So many poster on thread I want to reply to but I don't know how to multi-quote..............

kneemos

Some people like to delegate the fiddly stuff.

RoboRat

Based on this, yes the art of solving a problem is dead. Googling is great but hardly problem solving. Nor is getting toast out of a toaster.

Google is there so I use it, its a quick way figuring out how to solve the problem but it doesn't solve the problem.

I think it's a combination of a lot of things to be honest. As one poster said, parents are not there to develop these skills. Another is how society has evolved with technology to expect things to be done right now without having the patience to actually do it. Consumer products are not as durable as they used to be but that is also used as an excuse.

When I was a kid I used to do airfix kits and the likes. Lego was a huge part of my upbringing as was being outside and making **** with stuff I found such as finding wood scraps and making something with my dads tools.

Even kids who get punctures nowadays head straight to Halfords or their local bike shop to change the tyre rather than getting out a puncture repair kit.

I will always try to fix something myself and if I can't then I will look for help. There are far too many people who once they encounter a problem are quick to pass it to somebody else because they have 'a knack'... its akin to telling the kid who's crap at football that they are a great goalie just so they voluntarily go between the sticks!

lostboy75

"Is the art of problem solving a dying art?"
there must be some way to figure out the answer to this? can anyone help me?

kippy

RoboRat wrote: »

I think that people nowadays cant seem to take a bit of initiative and try to figure out a problem before they call for help. Once it doesn't work or there is an issue they cant seem to at least try and fix it. Several examples from this week alone:

(1) Had to do a 120 km round trip to fix a till, I am not qualified to fix such things but 'I seem to have knack' in other words, I actually try. The problem was that the till lead wasn't connected.
(2) Told the washing machine was broken when the filter had just blocked. A simple google search of the make/ model and problem told me as much and also explained how to fix it.
(3) Toast caught in the toaster... can't get it out. I unplugged it, turned it upside down and quite easily freed the imprisoned toast.
(4) Can't install outlook, I managed to do it quite simply by just going through the auto set-up wizard.
(5) Sky not working yet when I google what to do, I just switched it off, unplugged and when it restarted it was fine.

There are loads more instances, even people on these boards can't seem to google stuff!

You should embrace this. The dimbing down of the world presents opportunities for those with IQ's above 100 and a bit of cop on.
I have a job specificilly because people cant solve problems. Like a lot of us I would say.

gugleguy

lostboy75 wrote: »

"Is the art of problem solving a dying art?"
there must be some way to figure out the answer to this? can anyone help me?

Ok lostboy, put your bib on. are you sitting comfortably in your highchair?

RoboRat

Even the maths-based sciences are suffering from this a bit as exams are dumbed down so that a student who knows the process for performing integral maths, for example, learns to recognise when a question requires integral maths, and then repeat that process. They don't actually learn why they are doing integral maths and what they are describing, they are mindlessly applying a documented process to a formulaic issue, and are therefore not "solving" any maths problem.

OK, this actually strikes a chord with me. In school I hated maths and I couldn't quite understand it because I wanted to know the real life application and not just the method. In order for me to understand something, I have to be able to put this into a real life scenario and then work it out, I need to be able to see the path to the answer and its application for it to make sense otherwise it was just a jumble of numbers. I was failing maths until I got an excellent teacher who embraced me and was able to explain it to me and then I went from F's to B's.

Lyaiera

I think there's a big fear of breaking complex things. My father is terrified by computers. He uses Skype to talk to my sister abroad and if something he doesn't know about comes up he either ignores it or calls my brother or me. I've showed him how to do things, and I've tried to explain the logic behind how the OS and software interface works but he still won't do anything he knows explicitly how to do. And I think that's because he's afraid he'll break something or do irreparable damage to the computer.

I've explained to him multiple that he doesn't know enough about computers to break one. Short of dropping it he couldn't damage a computer if he wanted to. Sure he might get a virus or two but he doesn't use the laptop for anything sensitive and generally he doesn't go near anywhere online that would have a virus. But despite all that he's still afraid that something he will do will stop the laptop from working. I've even had him deliberately mess up software and shown him how it's easy to set it back to the way it was but he still won't mess with anything.

If people were less afraid of breaking things, and realised that a lot of the time it takes specialist knowledge to damage something beyond repair I think we'd have a lot more people willing to go down their own problem solving route.

nelly17

I'm Stumped

Renegade Mechanic

mike65 wrote: »

I have never called out a man to fix something in my house (but I have to the car - modern auto electrics are designed not to be fixed by mortals).

Aye. The "transcending" ceremony was on our Fás apprenticeship. Now automatic doors wont open for me:(

KyussBishop

Due to computer programming, I'd say it's more prevalent than ever - just focused on different things.

Programming for years, gives you a certain amount of bloody-minded persistence, when it comes to problem solving - given how big a pain in the ass a lot of programming is (given that a lot of it is bugfixing - which sometimes involves incredibly intransigent problem solving, that demands a lot of persistence).

Critical thinking + problem solving + persistence = win.


I'd agree about our education system: Teaching the exam is an inherently bad way to teach (and it turns potentially fascinating subjects, into utterly boring crap/recitation), and forcing people to waste their time on subjects like Irish is (cumulatively, over most of a century) probably one of the biggest wastes of intellectual potential/effort and time in the countries history, which likely has a measurably negative economic impact.

Replace it with teaching dedicated towards critical thinking instead, and encourage people to learn how to think for themselves properly, and teach them in a way that actually interests them in (what are usually very interesting...) subjects - not just how to memorize and recite established/unquestioned answers, to exam questions.

RoboRat

I think there's a big fear of breaking complex things.

That's understandable but a lot of problems are not complex and you just need to show a bit of initiative to solve them.

I have a certain set of procedures that I implement such as if its electrical and not working, is it plugged in correctly. You could be amazed at how many times I have 'fixed' something by just making sure it was plugged in properly.

lostboy75

Lyaiera wrote: »

I think there's a big fear of breaking complex things. My father is terrified by computers. He uses Skype to talk to my sister abroad and if something he doesn't know about comes up he either ignores it or calls my brother or me. I've showed him how to do things, and I've tried to explain the logic behind how the OS and software interface works but he still won't do anything he knows explicitly how to do. And I think that's because he's afraid he'll break something or do irreparable damage to the computer.

I agree with this, i also get the calls from my parents, aunts uncles etc.
and it is a preceived complexity that stop them from doing things most times. 9/10 times they say they cant do something, you ask did you try and most times they say they yes did. so you talk them through it, they ask so what do i do now, well what does it tell you to do? try doing that then.
my Job is 80% about finding the right solution to a problems, its what makes it interesting,

donegal__road

The motor industry is continually safeguarding themselves against people taking the initiative to do things for themselves.

Gone will be the days when joe public can change a blown headlight bulb on a new car. On many cars 131 upward, you have to break the service seal to access the back of the light casing.. now you have to bring it to a registered dealer to do it for you, and changing a light bulb will now cost you €50.

geeksauce

2 of the 5 problems listed in the OP were solved by googling it, but isn't googling something actually calling for help. I wouldn't consider it problem solving, actual problem solving would be fixing it without resorting to the Internet.

RoboRat

2 of the 5 problems listed in the OP were solved by googling it, but isn't googling something actually calling for help. I wouldn't consider it problem solving, actual problem solving would be fixing it without resorting to the Internet.

How so? Its the same as looking at a manual. To solve a problem you need to be faced with a problem and then fix it. Google doesn't fix it, you take the initiative to search for a solution and then implement it. Sometimes there may be multiple variations of how to solve the problem and you need to work out which one is the right solution.