John Waters - "There's no such thing as depression"

wretcheddomain

Haven't seen this up yet so thought I'd see what you folks thought about it:

Asked if he had become depressed as a result of the national backlash, he said, "I don't believe in depression. There's no such thing. It's an invention. It's bull****," he said, "it's a cop out."

www.independent.ie/irish-news/ive-been-put-on-trial-over-my-beliefs-30180643.html

I think he's right to some extent. I know the common convention in this country is to accept depression in everyone who admits to having it or by a psychiatrist claiming someone has it, but this isn't good enough in my view. Claiming to feel a certain way is subjective - there is no objective diagnosis for depression.

There also seems to be a muddling of terms. People can feel down, stressed, sad, miserable - but for some bizarre reason this is assumed to be an unnatural or "disordered" thing. The fact is that sadness is also a human emotion but common culture has allowed any degree of sadness or stress to be considered "depression" in the clinical sense.

You see the same myth with OCD - many people go around claiming to have it when in reality, in the strict clinical sense, they don't. And that's the point - there's a world of difference between feeling stressed and being "clinically depressed". Due to the subjective nature of depression, these terms and experiences get muddled up and it results in the overprescribing of antidepressants.

So in conclusion, I wouldn't go as far as Waters in claiming depression doesn't exist - it does, but only in a minority of people who have the real clinical version and not some stressful experience in life.

keeponhurling

there's also a thread, called something about free speech

Some people refer to themselves as depressed when they're going through a bad patch, and it's normal to feel sad or down, and might think it's something you can exercise or vitaminise your way out of. They often belong to the 'pull yourself together' school of amateur diagnoses.

Clinical depression though is very real thing and blights affected people's lives, and anyone who tells them their very real illness doesn't exist needs a good kick as far up the backside as it's possible to lodge a shoe.

He's a profoundly stupid man.

suicide_circus

If it can be diagnosed, a pill can be made for it and someone can make money out of it

wretcheddomain

keeponhurling wrote: »

there's also a thread, called something about free speech

Yes - but I'd prefer to talk about his view on depression rather than talking about free speech as per the first post.

Birneybau

Mentalist denounces mental illness.

Makes sense.

I Heart Internet

wretcheddomain wrote: »

So in conclusion, I wouldn't go as far as Waters in claiming depression doesn't exist - it does, but only in a minority of people who have the real clinical version and not some stressful experience in life.

This is kinda right I think - but more people than you think have suffered from it I'd say.

As someone who enjoys Water's rattling of cages and contrary views, I think he's plain wrong here - and perhaps doing harm to people who really are suffering from depression.....without being melodramatic about it.

MagicIRL

Oh John, I hope you never have to bear the cross that is depression. I wouldn't wish this hell on my worst enemy.

Gatling

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Yes - but I'd prefer to talk about his view on depression rather than talking about free speech as per the first post.

He might threaten to take legal action for using his God given opinion

My name is URL

Asked if he had become depressed as a result

There's the problem. Idiots asking him questions that they know he'll answer controversially.. anything to help sell a rag.

bluefinger

he's probably friends with many depressed people.

Going Strong

bluefinger wrote: »

he's probably friends with many depressed people.

Must be purely bad luck on his part meeting so many people who wind up feeling depressed afterwards.

HalloweenJack

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Yes - but I'd prefer to talk about his view on depression rather than talking about free speech as per the first post.

In fairness, he spouts a few lines of ignorant nonsense but isn't pushed for an explanation.

He doesn't give much of a view, at all. This whole area is not the focus of that interview, there's not enough to go on to actually draw him into a debate about his views, as he mentioned he'd like the chance to do when discussing other views.

Lapin

John Waters depresses me.

Davarus Walrus

Yes there is. I've read more than one of his dreadful articles.

wretcheddomain

HalloweenJack wrote: »

In fairness, he spouts a few lines of ignorant nonsense but isn't pushed for an explanation.

He doesn't give much of a view, at all. This whole area is not the focus of that interview, there's not enough to go on to actually draw him into a debate about his views, as he mentioned he'd like the chance to do when discussing other views.

I think the statement 'There's no such thing as depression, it's an invention' is opinion enough to gauge the views on here. I think there's a high element of truth to this claim as per the first post. How many times will I have to justify this thread?

bluefinger

wasn't he married to Sinead O'Connor too?

wretcheddomain

bluefinger wrote: »

wasn't he married to Sinead O'Connor too?

He was - jealous much?

kiffer

Some people may say depreased when they mean a bit sad, and some people may claim to be clinically depressed when they are actually "just a bit down" but you aren't really able to tell from short interactions with them...

better a few exaggerators are placated a little than people with legitimate problems are made worse by people being tools...
"Just run around a bit! That'll lighten the crushing despair punctuated by deading numbness".

Dravokivich

He seems to have a very binary way of thinking, or at least expressing himself. Things are either one way or the other. Folks who's comments solely boil down to yes/no, tend not to have much value in what they say. I wouldn't be too bothered by that remark in itself. He's just some fool who's trying to have a definitive opinion on anything and everything he knows nothing about. He can mouth off whatever he wants, sooner or later people will start giving him less of the attention he's looking for.

Muise...

There's no such thing as John Waters. It's an trollish invention to annoy people. It's a cop-out to let this cnut-bot speak. It's bull**** to waste time arguing with it. That just feeds it. This is the pre-programmed parting shot. Because the cnut-script backfired spectacularly.

bluefinger

wretcheddomain wrote: »

He was - jealous much?

eh no. if i wanted to marry her i'd just ask her like everyone else.

Mycroft H

John Waters is a fool.

SEPT 23 1989

So he is having a go in a roundabout way at the mother of one of his kids

classy guy

Maximus Alexander

I'm delighted for folks who think depression doesn't exist, it means they've never had to suffer it. Long may that last, but do the rest of us a favour and stop speaking authoratively about things you have no knowledge of.

kowloon

I don't believe in John Waters.

Phibsboro

I really think he might be losing it. I wonder if he is moving towards a Scientology view of mental illness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_psychiatry)

Tombo2001

i think he means it in the same way that a lot of people say they have a flu when all they have is a bit of a runny nose.....two completely different things.

However, he has very cleverly.....ingeniously......said it in a way that will antagonise as many people as possible, and grab as much attention as possible for John Waters.....

....and that the same time give out about how he cant walk down the street without being jeered at.

The following sentence is best said in the accent of John Wayne as the Roman Soldier in the movie Jesus (The Greatest Story Ever Told).

This man, truly, can have his cake and eat it.

Frank Lee Midere

Not a nice guy but better off to ignore rather than call for the pitchforks.

The Bishop Basher

I had to endure a 2 hour talk by John Waters once. It left me feeling utterly depressed and lacking any will to continue with life.

Thankfully it was short lived and I'm fully recovered now.

Mycroft H

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'm delighted for folks who think depression doesn't exist, it means they've never had to suffer it. Long may that last, but do the rest of us a favour and stop speaking authoratively about things you have no knowledge of.

That's it in a nutshell.

Duggy747

He's a troll who knows how to rile people up, I wouldn't normally give him or his ilk the attention he craves for.

I Heart Internet

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Not a nice guy but better off to ignore rather than call for the pitchforks.

I'd say he's a reasonably nice guy. Just that he has contrary views. He is, now more than ever, being held up to public ridicule for some of those views. Soem of it warrented, some of it just plain nasty. Instead of backing down and not taking such a public battering, he continues to engage.

People who actively hate him and say pretty horrible things about him are far worse, imho, than Waters ever is/was.

Nora Mary S

We are all a bit self absorbed - too much time on our hands. I think that a lot of depression stems from too much thought about ourselves, how do I feel today? Am I content? Am I happy in my job? - if we were more concerned about how someone else was feeling and began to reflect on someone else or help out someone else we would be distracted from this constant self reflection. Turn the mirror the other way, shine the light out rather than blinding ourselves in our own relection !

Maximus Alexander

Nora Mary S wrote: »

We are all a bit self absorbed - too much time on our hands. I think that a lot of depression stems from too much thought about ourselves, how do I feel today? Am I content? Am I happy in my job? - if we were more concerned about how someone else was feeling and began to reflect on someone else or help out someone else we would be distracted from this constant self reflection. Turn the mirror the other way, shine the light out rather than blinding ourselves in our own relection !

Aye, it's the same with things like HIV, diabetes and hepatitis. People should just stop having them and think about other people instead. Getting treatment and stuff is for pansies.

Ray Palmer

bluefinger wrote: »

wasn't he married to Sinead O'Connor too?

No he never married her, he did have a child with her. This is just a massive indication of his hypocrisy. He claim to be a devote Catholic. He isn't and hasn't been in his life.

He deserves any criticism he get no matter where it is given he has preached from the papers, radio and TV.

His reputation would never have been valued at €4million. He still has the right to free speech but nobody will pay for it anymore.

Don't forget he believes he is somewhat special by being a journalist and normal people should not be allowed write blogs in his view.

The One Doctor

It's the Independant. Nothing they publish can be thought of as fact, logic or sense. An Irish Daily Sun for the middle classes.

LoveLamps

Thought this was about Jon Walters

P. Breathnach

HalloweenJack wrote: »

In fairness, he spouts a few lines of ignorant nonsense but isn't pushed for an explanation....

Fair point. The journalist was somewhat at fault for failing to challenge him for an explanation of what he meant.

The entire interview was self-serving, and it was presented in an entirely uncritical way.

Links234

He's an odious, self-righteous idiot that's so full of himself, if we were able to harness the power of his hot air, we'd solve our energy problems for years to come.

rubadub

bluefinger wrote: »

wasn't he married to Sinead O'Connor too?

She was supposed to have rang up some radio station defending him about this issue.

I think she was saying that he recognises & believes in clinical depression, and that the comment was about himself, in response to the question

Asked if he had become depressed as a result of the national backlash

This sounds more likely to me. If people are really bothered they should ask him clearly the question which they are making out he answered, or a question they are making out he would also agree to.

e.g. people should ask "do you ever think a single person every ever existed who suffered from clinical depression?" because some are making out like he would answer no, while I would bet he would say yes.

wretcheddomain

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Aye, it's the same with things like HIV, diabetes and hepatitis. People should just stop having them and think about other people instead. Getting treatment and stuff is for pansies.

Oh come on - there's no parallel between the two.

HIV, diabetes and hepatitis can be objectively diagnosed.

Depressed is diagnosed through subjective interpretation.

This means that an awful lot of people who go to the GP and often 'claim' to be depressed will be believed by said GP and given antidepressants.

We need to divorce the stressed/sad individual from the "clinically depressed" individual - a massive chasm separates the two and the subjectivity of this question is what makes it so frustrating.

geeky

I've long believed that John Waters without a thesaurus to hand is just a knuckle-dragging pub bore, plain and simple. The Sindo interview confirms it for me.

Interesting to see Sinead O'Connor coming out to suggest 'what he meant to say', particularly given their antagonism and her experience with mental health issues. But really, he's a garden variety reactionary hack who we've been paying attention to for far too long.

Ash.J.Williams

rubadub wrote: »

She was supposed to have rang up some radio station defending him about this issue.

I think she was saying that he recognises & believes in clinical depression, and that the comment was about himself, in response to the question



This sounds more likely to me. If people are really bothered they should ask him clearly the question which they are making out he answered, or a question they are making out he would also agree to.

e.g. people should ask "do you ever think a single person every ever existed who suffered from clinical depression?" because some are making out like he would answer no, while I would bet he would say yes.

yeah this sounds a bit more believable...John should be experienced enough in taking people out of context to understand what he said was stupid.

Maximus Alexander

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Oh come on - there's no parallel between the two.

HIV, diabetes and hepatitis can be objectively diagnosed.

Depressed is diagnosed through subjective interpretation.

This means that an awful lot of people who go to the GP and often 'claim' to be depressed will be believed by said GP and given antidepressants.

We need to divorce the stressed/sad individual from the "clinically depressed" individual - a massive chasm separates the two and the subjectivity of this question is what makes it so frustrating.

There is a gargantuan difference between saying that some people might be misdiagnosed as being depressed and saying that depression is the sufferer's own fault and they should just stop being so selfish.

The former goes without saying and I'm unsure of its relevance.

wretcheddomain

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

There is a gargantuan difference between saying that some people might be misdiagnosed as being depressed and saying that depression is the sufferer's own fault and they should just stop being so selfish.

That's not my position by the way.

Muise...

wretcheddomain wrote: »

There also seems to be a muddling of terms. People can feel down, stressed, sad, miserable - but for some bizarre reason this is assumed to be an unnatural or "disordered" thing. The fact is that sadness is also a human emotion but common culture has allowed any degree of sadness or stress to be considered "depression" in the clinical sense.

You see the same myth with OCD - many people go around claiming to have it when in reality, in the strict clinical sense, they don't. And that's the point - there's a world of difference between feeling stressed and being "clinically depressed". Due to the subjective nature of depression, these terms and experiences get muddled up and it results in the overprescribing of antidepressants.

I think you are the prime term-muddler here, and by throwing John Waters into the fray you have temporarily disguised your own trollishness.

Doctors do NOT consider "any degree of sadness or stress" to be clinical depression. They'd be struck off if they did. Doctors assess how someone is coping with any degree of sadness or stress. Just because the patients' symptoms are self-reported and subjective does not mean the doctor cannot look at them objectively. And treat them accordingly.

Yes, some people go around saying they have OCD, when they don't. And people use the word depression but not in the clinical sense. Leave them off - it's just people using language. It absolutely does not follow that doctors use these terms interchangeably. That's obtuse and you know it.

rogie123

I think there is

Potatoeman

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Haven't seen this up yet so thought I'd see what you folks thought about it:



www.independent.ie/irish-news/ive-been-put-on-trial-over-my-beliefs-30180643.html

I think he's right to some extent. I know the common convention in this country is to accept depression in everyone who admits to having it or by a psychiatrist claiming someone has it, but this isn't good enough in my view. Claiming to feel a certain way is subjective - there is no objective diagnosis for depression.

There also seems to be a muddling of terms. People can feel down, stressed, sad, miserable - but for some bizarre reason this is assumed to be an unnatural or "disordered" thing. The fact is that sadness is also a human emotion but common culture has allowed any degree of sadness or stress to be considered "depression" in the clinical sense.

You see the same myth with OCD - many people go around claiming to have it when in reality, in the strict clinical sense, they don't. And that's the point - there's a world of difference between feeling stressed and being "clinically depressed". Due to the subjective nature of depression, these terms and experiences get muddled up and it results in the overprescribing of antidepressants.

So in conclusion, I wouldn't go as far as Waters in claiming depression doesn't exist - it does, but only in a minority of people who have the real clinical version and not some stressful experience in life.

I think the term has been abused over the last few years. Theres a difference between being diagnosed as clinically depressed and going to the gp for a five minute moan and getting pills.

Its people that use it as an excuse for their own faults or bad behaviour that are the problem and make people very suspicious of those that claim to suffer fom it.

Zillah

He's such a worthless, odious little shit-bag.

Every now and then he speaks off the cuff and reveals himself to be a mean-spirited, hateful bigot, eager to pour scorn on those he considers degenerates (gay people), but when he is given the opportunity to defend his position or elaborate on his awful comments, he changes the subject and starts trying to present himself as a victim - spouting irrelevant, ambiguous nonsense.

Horrible.

Mr.Micro

Links234 wrote: »

He's an odious, self-righteous idiot that's so full of himself, if we were able to harness the power of his hot air, we'd solve our energy problems for years to come.

Indeed so. He is in need of constant attention, hence is opinions on many things.