Grand Canal Water Taxi

coolemon

How feasible would a water taxi from Suir Bridge Luas stop to Portobello Harbour be? Its a distance of almost exactly 3 kilometres and a good stretch of canal without a lock.

There is no direct connection between the areas apart from the 122 bus which travels down the south circular.

There is already kayak rental on this stretch of canal and a water taxi could be an attractive amenity as well as a way of connecting two areas of cultural significance - Kilmainham area on one end and Portobello, Camden street and Renalagh areas on the other.

Since there is not much of a connection between the two areas it might also be useful for someone travelling to work in the area.

Im just curious. Not looking to start a business or anything. Id say the red tape would be humungous.

Any thoughts?

What sorts of speed and travel time would one expect between the two? There must be speed restrictions on the canals?

coolemon

I was told that there was one planned a number of years ago but it must have fell through and cant find anything on the internet about such a plan.

Carawaystick

canal speed limit of 3knots so...

coolemon

Carawaystick wrote: »

canal speed limit of 3knots so...

Jaysus that's a slow speed restriction.

So a journey time of about 50 minutes from Suir road to Portobello...

Losty Dublin

coolemon wrote: »

Jaysus that's a slow speed restriction.

So a journey time of about 50 minutes from Suir road to Portobello...

Plus an investment for a jetty, service points for the barges and the barge itself. Who pays for same?

coylemj

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Plus an investment for a jetty, service points for the barges and the barge itself. Who pays for same?

The operator of course. You wouldn't be allowed build a jetty on a canal, you'd have to provide a moveable gangway to a firm spot on the bank. The gangway would be lifted out and probably parked on the roof of the ferry when it pulls off. Near locks where there are stone quay walls you'd just pull up alongside and let people step off and on under supervision but without a gangway.

The insurance would probably top the lot - people slipping on a wet gangway or just stumbling getting into & out of the boat. Can see the claims streaming in faster than the water out of the locks!

enda1

Carawaystick wrote: »

canal speed limit of 3knots so...

I presume that speed limit is only for motorised transport. Maybe get every passenger to pedal

whisky_galore

The canals were built with barges pulled by lumbering draft horses in mind, the banks might not stand up to the washes created by anything moving much faster.

coolemon

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Plus an investment for a jetty, service points for the barges and the barge itself. Who pays for same?

Well that's the problem, the financial feasibility of a water taxi to cover the costs of the craft and jetty.

Not so much a barge but maybe something like this:

coolemon

There are already docking points at Suir Bridge and at Portobello Harbour for barges. Maybe they could be modified to allow something like above to pull in.

Its a pity we have such a sue culture in Ireland.

Losty Dublin

coylemj wrote: »

The operator of course. You wouldn't be allowed build a jetty on a canal, you'd have to provide a moveable gangway to a firm spot on the bank. The gangway would be lifted out and probably parked on the roof of the ferry when it pulls off. Near locks where there are stone quay walls you'd just pull up alongside and let people step off and on under supervision but without a gangway.

The insurance would probably top the lot - people slipping on a wet gangway or just stumbling getting into & out of the boat. Can see the claims streaming in faster than the water out of the locks!

There are jetty's on the Grand Canal for passenger boats to load on and load off; Waterways Ireland had them constructed some years ago. The thing is, they have them there for leisure craft and the cafe barges and not for passenger flows so I can't them expanding these facilities without some comeback from them.

This idea of placing gangways on the bank and hopping off at locks; I can see it keeping the ambulance chasing legals in golf fees and Audi Q 7's

whisky_galore

coolemon wrote: »

Its a pity we have such a sue culture in Ireland.

The reason we can't have nice things in many cases.:(

Seaswimmer

coolemon wrote: »

Jaysus that's a slow speed restriction.

So a journey time of about 50 minutes from Suir road to Portobello...

Not quite.

1 knot = 1 nautical mile per hour.

International Nautical mile = 1852 metres

3km = 3000metres

so about 32 minutes..


I think

LXFlyer

What about time spent at each lock gate?

coolemon

lxflyer wrote: »

What about time spent at each lock gate?

There are no locks on that 3km stretch from Suir Bridge to Portobello.

coolemon

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Not quite.

1 knot = 1 nautical mile per hour.

International Nautical mile = 1852 metres

3km = 3000metres

so about 32 minutes..


I think

According to google converter 3knots = 5.556kph

3km/5.556kph = 0.539/ 54 minutes.

Unless a marine nautical mile is different than the knot unit in the converter? That or my calcs are wrong somewhere

enda1

coolemon wrote: »

According to google converter 3knots = 5.556kph

3km/5.556kph = 0.539/ 54 minutes.

Unless a marine nautical mile is different than the knot unit in the converter? That or my calcs are wrong somewhere

0.539 of an hour is not 54 minutes unless you live with 100mins per hour!

coolemon

enda1 wrote: »

0.539 of an hour is not 54 minutes unless you live with 100mins per hour!

Ah well there you have it! Wrong calcs!

Even better so for the proposition

coolemon

What do people think passenger numbers and demand would be for a service like this?

Seaswimmer

coolemon wrote: »

According to google converter 3knots = 5.556kph

3km/5.556kph = 0.539/ 54 minutes.

Unless a marine nautical mile is different than the knot unit in the converter? That or my calcs are wrong somewhere

Yes..Its not 53.9 minutes.

But .539 of 60 minutes


sorry. saw someone beat me to it

ted1

enda1 wrote: »

I presume that speed limit is only for motorised transport. Maybe get every passenger to pedal

back to using horses.

I'd say it more to do with the wake and nesting birds etc.

ted1

whisky_galore wrote: »

The reason we can't have nice things in many cases.:(

Rubbish, There is a culture in Ireland to blame insurance costs or to even follow up on plans due to what is seen as prohibitive insurance costs.

Insurance does not cost near what people think it does.

I have experience organizing extreme sports competitions where there was high risk both to competitors and the public and the insurance was surprisingly cheap.

LeinsterDub

whisky_galore wrote: »

The reason we can't have nice things in many cases.:(

I'm not sure a potential death trap falls into the category 'nice things'

whisky_galore

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I'm not sure a potential death trap falls into the category 'nice things'

Yeah that's exactly what I meant.:rolleyes:

enda1

whisky_galore wrote: »

Yeah that's exactly what I meant.:rolleyes:

Dead people can't sue.

Modern society has an abhorrence for accidental preventable death. You can't just switch back the clocks and say "meh 10 lives a year doesn't matter". It does. It's not about suing it's about our advancement as a civilised society.

HeidiHeidi

I'd use it.

Spent nearly an hour getting down the canal from Kilmainham to Bath Avenue the other day at rush hour :mad:

SCR just as bad with Kelly's Corner bottleneck.

Lounging back on a boat sounds like bliss, and would be a whole pile easier on my left (clutch) leg!

ted1

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I'd use it.

Spent nearly an hour getting down the canal from Kilmainham to Bath Avenue the other day at rush hour :mad:

SCR just as bad with Kelly's Corner bottleneck.

Lounging back on a boat sounds like bliss, and would be a whole pile easier on my left (clutch) leg!

Have you tried cycling in?

Tabnabs

Here's a couple of videos to give an idea of the landscape, the speed and the challenges of bringing a barge into that part of Dublin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfq-vVjQVoY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmdkELn25Eg

Carawaystick

The limits on canals are to prevent the wake eroding the banks, which are usually earth
There is also the flow of water about the hull, as the barge will block the easy flow of water from in front to behind her.
Which is something which doesn't happen in open water, where there's loads of space for the water to gat behind the barge.

I find it hard to believe people would walk to a canal, wait and pay to travel at walking pace, before walking a bit more

Losty Dublin

Tabnabs wrote: »

Here's a couple of videos to give an idea of the landscape, the speed and the challenges of bringing a barge into that part of Dublin.

I saw this barge toddling towards Harold's Cross bridge on Thursday. Made for a fine sight to see it on the canal; the height of respect goes out to those who own and restore it and other water craft of yesteryear.

Grandeeod

Carawaystick wrote: »

The limits on canals are to prevent the wake eroding the banks, which are usually earth
There is also the flow of water about the hull, as the barge will block the easy flow of water from in front to behind her.
Which is something which doesn't happen in open water, where there's loads of space for the water to gat behind the barge.

That's pretty much it.

Look at the Clondalkin area. The run down to Parkwest is choca bloc on the roads. Canal boats would be ideal at a decent speed. But canals aren't built to deal with speed apparently.

This is a bit of a dated argument as during the Celtic Tiger years every aspect was up for discussion on the basis of piss poor planning.

coolemon

Ok, so maybe the canal as a quick way to get from A to B is a non-starter.

But what about for tourism?

The area surrounding Portobello Harbour would be significant for tourists and so would Kilmainham.

A water tax between the two, even if relatively slow, would be an attractive amenity and tourist attraction...

It would need to be marketed to let tourists know it is there. But it could be done.

Losty Dublin

coolemon wrote: »

Ok, so maybe the canal as a quick way to get from A to B is a non-starter.

But what about for tourism?

The area surrounding Portobello Harbour would be significant for tourists and so would Kilmainham.

Ask yourself this. What has a barge slowly moving along a poorly kept canal between two points which are a fair bit off the maintourist areas going for it?

smackyB

While the boat idea isn't really a runner IMO I do wonder why is there no bus route which follows the canal? With more and more people working down in the vicinity of Grand Canal Dock I would have there would be demand for that kind of service..

HeidiHeidi

smackyB wrote: »

While the boat idea isn't really a runner IMO I do wonder why is there no bus route which follows the canal? With more and more people working down in the vicinity of Grand Canal Dock I would have there would be demand for that kind of service..

Possibly because there's nowhere to put bus stops along the canal? One lane each way the whole length of it.

Plus, as I discovered last week, it's effectively a car park at rush hour, when such a bus service would be most needed.

The SCR runs parallel to the canal most of the way into town, and is amply served by lots of buses.

monument

ted1 wrote: »

Have you tried cycling in?

Yes, and I think people still are not getting the idea that we're talking about just a ~10min cycle.

HeidiHeidi

monument wrote: »

Yes, and I think people still are not getting the idea that we're talking about just a ~10min cycle.

That isn't a regular commute of mine - I do shift work, just happened to be driving that route at rush hour that day. And I do cycle regularly, as it happens. Cycling isn't always the solution to every problem.

Meanwhile, back on topic......

LXFlyer

smackyB wrote: »

While the boat idea isn't really a runner IMO I do wonder why is there no bus route which follows the canal? With more and more people working down in the vicinity of Grand Canal Dock I would have there would be demand for that kind of service..

There are already buses going from Dolphin's Barn to Grand Canal Dock (56a and 77a), and from Rathmines (15a and 15b).

monument

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

That isn't a regular commute of mine - I do shift work, just happened to be driving that route at rush hour that day. And I do cycle regularly, as it happens. Cycling isn't always the solution to every problem.

Cycling isn't always the solution to every problem, but in Ireland today there is scope for cycling to become a solution to many more problems on a larger scale than it is now.

Meanwhile, back on topic......

Things like having bus routes on a nearby parallel road, it only being a short distance to cycle, or even the fact that there'll soon be DublinBikes stations at or near both ends is very relevant to the topic.

There's no point even thinking about implementing ideas of there's already a range of alternatives.

HivemindXX

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Cycling isn't always the solution to every problem. Meanwhile, back on topic......

...but it is a solution to this problem and it's perfectly on topic. If you want to get from Suir Road to Portobello cycling is probably the best solution. Next up would be getting one of the buses that go down the SCR.

If someone was going to start a water taxi business I'd think the Liffey would be a better avenue. Higher potential speeds, more space to pass other vehicles, far more potential customers.

HeidiHeidi

monument wrote: »

Cycling isn't always the solution to every problem, but in Ireland today there is scope for cycling to become a solution to many more problems on a larger scale than it is now.



Things like having bus routes on a nearby parallel road, it only being a short distance to cycle, or even the fact that there'll soon be DublinBikes stations at or near both ends is very relevant to the topic.

There's no point even thinking about implementing ideas of there's already a range of alternatives.

OK, bad choice of (smartass) words - my bad

Can't disagree with any of what you've said there - but in any case I don't think the canal will/could ever be considered for a bus route, it's just not a runner (to coin a pun).

On a slightly parallel note, delighted to see the many new DB stations being built - including one practically outside my front door - they're really going for it in a big way!

But in fairness to the OP, we really should get back to the original topic of canal taxis/tourist boats and the feasability thereof

monument

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

But in fairness to the OP, we really should get back to the original topic of canal taxis/tourist boats and the feasability thereof

Mod ruling on this:

Bus and cycling alternatives are highly related to the feasibility of the OP's suggestions. Please do not talk about getting back on topic again.

Do not reply to this post. Thank you.

- Moderator

roddney

I see that Suas is back on plans for Liffey.

http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-cable-car-motion-suas-plans-development-1414689-Apr2014/

This might be a better way to run a service from Suir Road Luas to Grand Dock.

Cable systems run at 20-25 kph.
It's 5 km following the canal.
So easily doable in under 10 mins with 4 stops (2 stops intermediary stops).
You'd be joining Luas & Dart.
Make it 6 km and you'd get an extra stop and Hueston integrated to it.
Join the current Liffey proposal at Guiness storehouse and you'd get a loop to the IFSC.

Polls could be fabricated to fit in with historic canal locks. Black ornate looking iron work for example. Lots of free airspace above canal.