Have you ever won a race???

Cartman78

Hey folks,

I'd imagine there's a few people on here who have experience competing regularly at the business end of races so looking for a few tips/hints.

Probably getting waaaaaaaaay ahead of myself but I'm entering a race in a few weeks time and based on:
a) last year's finishing times
b) possible low turnout and
c) my own unexpectedly good form,

there is an outside,long shot potential for a possibility of me maybe being in the Top 10 if everything goes well on the day.

So anyway, my question would be in relation to race strategy....if I were to find myself in a leading group halfway round would I be better racing tactically & hanging in with them (?) or just run my own race and see what happens (?).

cheers cm

Krusty_Clown

Is your real name 'Mo Farah'?
Why don't you wait until Sunday before making a decision and see how it works out for Mo?

TFBubendorfer

I have a couple of wins in local, uncompetitive fun runs under my belt as well as a few age group wins.

I always run my own race. My thinking is that tactical racing is slower, and at anything below elite level you are better off getting to the finish in as short a time as possible, which should ensure the highest finishing position you can achieve.

In the last mile or half mile you can start thinking tactically. If you have good finishing speed you can try to outkick them as you race for the line. In contrast, if you don't have much natural speed, like myself, you might want to go hell for leather over the last half mile, trying to open a gap that they can't close with their final sprint.

Cartman78

Cheers for the replies guys - I've just noticed the typo in the the thread title :mad: so surprised that anyone bothered to open the thread at all

Timmaay

The fact that you've opened a thread about it definitely means your overthinking it all ha. Just run the race as usual, if aload of quick lads showup and blow ya outa the water so be it, just keep pushing and finish as good as possible, equally so if the competition is rubbish and you find yourself in a nice lead from early in the race, no need to get complacent and think you can cruise home ha, better to keep pushing as if your under some bit of pressure (obviously without blowing up, but that should go without saying).

rom

Yet to win a race. Came 2nd recently in a low standard trail 10 miler in the US. Came 3rd in a local 1M race a year back. Standard poor also. I must say personally there is little sense of achievement in winning a race of a low standard. There are local races that I could enter and probably get top 3 but they don't interest me. I would much prefer doing a good time (nowhere near the front) in say a race like Ballycotton then winning a low standard 10 miler. I am racing myself and running for PBs. I try to find races that there are is a group a little better than me so I can run off them and improve. For the guys winning the big races in Ireland other than say DCM last year then their perspective is probably they are small on the world scene.

Suppose no one who wins a race is going to think that its I done it, draw a line under it. Once there is always someone faster then there is always a motivator to try harder.

Krusty_Clown

There are two types of race:
1) Those races where you are a mid-packer
2) Those races where you might be lucky enough to be competitive for a top 10 place

Mid-pack runs serve a great purpose. Your overall race strategy/time goal is in the forefront of your mind and everything depends on sticking to the plan. If however, you find yourself in one of those rare instances where you are close to the top of the field, you get an entirely different race experience. Your pre-race strategy can go out the window and suddenly you're faced with a different set of motivations and these are changing constantly. It takes you out of your comfort zone. It is a different race experience.

This does not mean you are an international athlete. It does not mean that you can wrap yourself up in your own elitist superiority complex, it just means that on that specific day, you were about as fast as anyone else that turned up that day. It certainly doesn't mean that you should avoid the race for fear of placing in the top 10. If everybody avoided races where they had a chance of finishing near the top, there would be no races. It's just important that afterwards, you remember to hide your glass vase in the back of the cupboard, and continue to wear your superman underwear on the inside.

I'm not saying you should go out and intentionally find easy races and try and win them (like for example the Operation Transformation races), but if you do find yourself in a race where you are competitive, then enjoy the different experience and consider it a reward for your hard training. No doubt, there'll be another race just around the corner that will put you back in your box.

Mint Sauce

Yes, Sports Day Class 5 Wheel Barrow Race.

ecoli

Cartman78 wrote: »

Cheers for the replies guys - I've just noticed the typo in the the thread title :mad: so surprised that anyone bothered to open the thread at all

Typo amended

ecoli

As KC eluded to if you do find yourself in the situation of being competitive enjoy it.It doesn't mean you have to race any differently, play to your own strengths and try get the race to pan out the way that will best set you up.

I have raced training partners at times where I knew I was stronger coming from a more aerobic background where I put in surges as it suited me and I thought that it was the best way to race the people around me, Similarly I have been in races where I knew guys were in better shape and tried drafting them before putting in last min kicks and using my speed to catch them off guard.

Racing people is a different experience and can sometimes push you out of the comfort zone of the watch. Enjoy it, most of the time we all just "run" races so if you do get a chance to race one every now and then take advantage of it

rom

I agree with the points above. I do get the true racing feeling in XC as times etc are out the windows and it is only you and the next guy. I love it.

barryoneill50

You don't have to be at the business end of the field to get that racing/competitive buzz. I'm a fairly newbie/middle of the pack runner and in a recent 10k I merged with a couple of dudes about 2k out and we had a right ding dong. Breaks and counter breaks, eyeing up each other wondering when the next move was coming. I eventually got the better of them and I won my own little race. That winning felling is not exclusive to elite racers......

ThePiedPiper

The first race I ever won was a boring affair, where I had it won inside the first 200 metres. However, the feeling of being out in front and racing just the clock pushed me on to knocking a good 2 minutes off a previously weak 10k pb.. The little buzz of the win was nothing in comparison to knocking 8 minutes off a marathon pb though. The wins and high places are nice when they come along but don't give me any delusions of grandeur whatsoever.

Peterx

Cartman78 wrote: »

Hey folks,

I'd imagine there's a few people on here who have experience competing regularly at the business end of races so looking for a few tips/hints.

Probably getting waaaaaaaaay ahead of myself but I'm entering a race in a few weeks time and based on:
a) last year's finishing times
b) possible low turnout and
c) my own unexpectedly good form,

there is an outside,long shot potential for a possibility of me maybe being in the Top 10 if everything goes well on the day.

So anyway, my question would be in relation to race strategy....if I were to find myself in a leading group halfway round would I be better racing tactically & hanging in with them (?) or just run my own race and see what happens (?).

cheers cm

Thinking you have a chance can give you a chance. I have seen many people beaten by themsleves in hillruns, myself included. If you don't think you are good enough to win, that is generally the case.

No harm thinking you have a chance of winning. I still clearly recall the feeling lining up at the startline of the first hillrun I won, the lads that had won the previous few Wednesday races were all missing resting up for a trial race and there were four or five of us one the start line in with a chance of the win. I was actually jumping on the startline with the giddiness of it all.

It was a bloody great feeling to win that race and I really enjoyed it. The fact I could list off eight or ten names who would have beaten me if they showed up didn't bother me in the slightest - but it did help to keep the superman pants on the inside;)

The short version - GO FOR IT, you can only beat who shows up and hopefully that will be everybody:D

spurscormac

barryoneill50 wrote: »

You don't have to be at the business end of the field to get that racing/competitive buzz. I'm a fairly newbie/middle of the pack runner and in a recent 10k I merged with a couple of dudes about 2k out and we had a right ding dong. Breaks and counter breaks, eyeing up each other wondering when the next move was coming. I eventually got the better of them and I won my own little race. That winning felling is not exclusive to elite racers......

This is exactly how I like to race, nowhere near the pointy end, but when I'm tiring towards the end of a race, that competitor in me kicks in.
If someone goes past me in the last km, I try to let them get a small lead, maybe 30m or so and hold it at that.
I'm far enough back that they think they've dropped me, but close enough to kick on & overtake them on the run-in.
Timing the overtake is crucial to not allowing the time & distance to react and get you back.

Had a great sprint finish at the end of a 5k recently, in fact it was one of the first times I've ever allowed myself to slow up in a sprint and be beaten.
I was only just back from a hamstring injury and as I felt him come back towards me and went to push on again I felt it tighten, so not wanting to do any further damage I eased off the gas, allowed him past & shook his hand afterwards.

Rarely I will ever allow someone to beat me in a sprint finish.

ecoli

barryoneill50 wrote: »

You don't have to be at the business end of the field to get that racing/competitive buzz. I'm a fairly newbie/middle of the pack runner and in a recent 10k I merged with a couple of dudes about 2k out and we had a right ding dong. Breaks and counter breaks, eyeing up each other wondering when the next move was coming. I eventually got the better of them and I won my own little race. That winning felling is not exclusive to elite racers......

Completely agree with this and I its a lesson I am still learning. Most of my best races have come from going head to head with someone in a race (whether it was a stranger or training partner etc)

T runner

Cartman78 wrote: »

Hey folks,

I'd imagine there's a few people on here who have experience competing regularly at the business end of races so looking for a few tips/hints.

Probably getting waaaaaaaaay ahead of myself but I'm entering a race in a few weeks time and based on:
a) last year's finishing times
b) possible low turnout and
c) my own unexpectedly good form,

there is an outside,long shot potential for a possibility of me maybe being in the Top 10 if everything goes well on the day.

So anyway, my question would be in relation to race strategy....if I were to find myself in a leading group halfway round would I be better racing tactically & hanging in with them (?) or just run my own race and see what happens (?).

cheers cm

If you find yourself in that position then you should race tactically. If the standard isn't high then thinking about how you might win and planning it in advance could be the difference between giving you a chance of a high finish or making it probable.

Stay with the lead group for as long as possible until it is whittled down. If you fancy your chances of winning a sprint finish: Sit in the group, and do no unnecessary work. Stay in touch with the group no matter what, and try and leave a bit to win the sprint.

If you're not going to win the sprint you need to break away. The trick is getting a gap and maintaining it. If you get a gap youre chances of winning increase enormously due to the psychological damage caused to your opponent. How many times have you beaten someone who has opened a gap on you? not many times right?

I'm not that experienced in road races but the best time is obviously when they are feeling weakest. Cresting a hill everyone feels week physically and psychologically. Even if you are not physically stronger you can still win if you appear stronger. After leading to the top of a hill keep working and accelerate off it using leg turnover if you can. You just want a little gap, something to work with. Don't go over the red line yourself, but keep slowly increasing that little gap until they break off. Once you notice them slow/concede you can slightly reduce your pace, which wont affect the gap opening rate. Once the gap is established. Run a hard controlled sustainable pace to the line. Far easier to do when youre in a high position than down the field.

You can also get a gap rounding a corner. If youre leading start to take the corner slightly wide (they will follow) then accelerate around the corner tightly. That's worth a few metres.

You should try and get the gap far enough from the line where the perceived remaining distance might be a factor in persuading the pursuer/s to let you go. It needs to be late enough so that you can maintain the gap also.

Study the route, and find out likely spots in the last 3k.
Always cover the end of the race course in your warm up not the start. Knowing how the course ends will help you. You might be able to plan a break. Knowing a hill might give you the courage to push the gap when you're feeling as bad as anyone else around you.

It might not work out that way, but if it does, be more prepared than anyone else in contention to maximize your chances. More fun that way!

pconn062

I've only ever won a few track races (came 2nd in a 6k earlier this year as well), and the distance has never been more than a mile. My tactic is to try and sit with the lead group for as long as possible and then kick with 200m to go. I know I have fairly good finishing speed and can usually outkick people. The only problem is people are starting to cop onto this trick now and start kicking in the races with 600m to try and run the legs of the sprint finishers! You can't beat a track race for tactics!.

b.harte

Ah sure leave us know where it is and we will try to come along and support you. :pac:

Chivito550

First ever 400m race I ran was a win (in a race against 5 women) in 64 seconds. Was delighted at the time. In my 35 400m races since then I've never won a race. Same in other distances. That win remains my slowest ever time, so the win really matters little.

I could have won rakes of races over the last 3 years by simply going in a slower heat at interclub meets, but how would you better yourself by doing that!

T runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

First ever 400m race I ran was a win (in a race against 5 women) in 64 seconds. Was delighted at the time. In my 35 400m races since then I've never won a race. Same in other distances. That win remains my slowest ever time, so the win really matters little.

I could have won rakes of races over the last 3 years by simply going in a slower heat at interclub meets, but how would you better yourself by doing that!

That's a very good and fair point.

I'm interested in psychology (on a very amateur level). Granted the win was your slowest time but are you sure it mattered little?

Imagine that win was erased from existance....never happened.....would your view of winning a race change? Would there be more hunger for a win now....even slightly?

Hypothetical situation...You've no win...you're not allowed enter slower races to bag it...would the prize of winning a race (that could only be achieved by running faster in the fast divisions) have driven you faster? If the answer is yes, then that first win may have mattered a little. Sorry for the shrink couch grilling! It probably is as you imply and the clock is the truth on the track.

Im finding more and more with my own training that the stronger the stimulus the better I train (granted Im relatively recreational and thus the difference between me training well and badly is appallingly great).

pa4

I've won a few races, not much and I never expected to win at the time. First big one was county intermediate road champs last year. Came second in the novice and was feeling tired and sluggish all week so wasn't very optimistic going into the race. Ended up staying with the lead group until 6k and then the pace suddenly picked up so I put the boot down. I glanced behind me after about 300m and realised I had pulled away from everyone so at that point I knew it was either go hard or go home so I just pushed it all the way to the line. I find when your out in the front and you don't know how far everyone is behind you the fear of them passing you out makes you push harder.

Same thing happened with my most recent win in a local 10k, ended up winning by about a minute but I kept expecting someone to go flying past me near the end so that alone made me push extra hard.

Chivito550

T runner wrote: »

That's a very good and fair point.

I'm interested in psychology (on a very amateur level). Granted the win was your slowest time but are you sure it mattered little?

Imagine that win was erased from existance....never happened.....would your view of winning a race change? Would there be more hunger for a win now....even slightly?

Hypothetical situation...You've no win...you're not allowed enter slower races to bag it...would the prize of winning a race (that could only be achieved by running faster in the fast divisions) have driven you faster? If the answer is yes, then that first win may have mattered a little. Sorry for the shrink couch grilling! It probably is as you imply and the clock is the truth on the track.

Im finding more and more with my own training that the stronger the stimulus the better I train (granted Im relatively recreational and thus the difference between me training well and badly is appallingly great).

I don't think so to be honest. If the winning of races really mattered I could have easily held back and waited a few heats and ran in soft races and won at a kanter. There would have been nothing to stop me doing so had I wished. I was always motivated at beating people at my level, or slightly above my level, or holding off people a small bit slower than me. Those were the victories that motivated me. The outright win wasn't hugely important because it was almost impossible to get into a race where it would be competitive at my level from lanes 1 through to 8. There would usually be an outlier who'd run about 2 seconds faster (many of whom drop down for a cheap victory). Track running is all about the competitive element but coming 7th out of 8 in a strong race can mean more than winning an easy one.

That win mattered lots at the time for confidence I suppose, but I never look back on it now. I almost go through 400 in an 800 at that pace now! And it was a race full of women! Winning was a nice feeling, but it doesn't come close to the feeling of a PB in a big meet with strong competition.

PVincent

I think you need to decide in your mind if the win is all you are after. If it is then you need to also decide in your mind how you will feel if you make a mess of it tactically and don't win , and you have run a time way slower than you know you can run. If you can cope with that in your mind then great. But is running at our level not just about running your best , and if it is good enough to win then all the better. I did win one BHAA track event once and could have taken it a lot easier and still won, but I preferred to put it all in and savour the hard effort. I am not so sure that many of us would really be tactically astute enough to dictate a race and then pull it out of the bag. If you are good enough to win it , then go win it running your best . I just think mentally you will get more out of it that way.

nolinejudge

I have never won a race. However I am always racing my mate. Doesn't matter who else is there my goal is to beat him. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. Oddly I don't feel any better or worse at the end but during I work hard to ensure I win. Never run as well if he's out.

Cleanman

Tactically, the best way to win a race is to go out hard in the early stage, pick up the pace around the middle stage and then put the foot down in the last stage! Whether you come first or not doesn't then matter - you'll be happy that you gave it your all.

Racman

Back in the day, I was the leading runner in two races. On both occasions, I was mis-directed and was not actually the first finisher. So, my advice would be to study the route carefully and know exactly where you should be going, just in case.

RandyMann

Yes, I won a few. My tactics would be to run like a bolligs as soon as the gun goes off and dont let off until you cross the line.

rom

Cleanman wrote: »

Tactically, the best way to win a race is to go out hard in the early stage, pick up the pace around the middle stage and then put the foot down in the last stage! Whether you come first or not doesn't then matter - you'll be happy that you gave it your all.

Or stick on the shoulder of the guy in first and simply pass them with 200 to go.

woody1

came very close a couple of weeks ago in a local charity 5k, winning time was 20.. something so that tells all about quality of opposition.. was a very different experience running with the top 5 all the way round and having to think about what to do when it came down to the finish.. i enjoyed it despite getting blown away at the last km, came 5th by a few yards..