Yet another I dont want to Squat

artengo

I have been tipping away in the gym for a while now and very happy with the results. I have been following stronglifts 5 x 5 which has the squat 5 x 5 three times a week.

If my only interest was gym work I would gladly continue this program. I really enjoy the challenge of improving the compound lifts.

The problem is my main hobby and goal is cycling. I dont race but go out with a club every week and with friends week nights in the summer.

Since the weights program, my cycling has been crap. My legs are just too tired to keep up with the group.

My question is, would the cycling compensate for the squats and deadlift if I continued the upper body part ( bench, row, overhead press ) of stronglifts and cycled twice or three times a week.

Could I cause any injury problems from having an imbalance due to only doing upper body weights.

Thanks for any advice

RidleyRider

Don't stop lifting if you want too.

I cycled at a competitive level for 4 years at a competitive level and can definitely say my cycling improved, it was bound too.

Sort out your nutrition and sleep and you'll be fine.

Doug Cartel

Most programs wouldn't have you squatting heavy 3 times a week, and doing deads on top of that. Squat *or* dead lifts *once* a week would be much more common.

Also, Stronglifts is based on Starting Strength, which isn't really an "in season" program you would do while you are still training to do well in your main sport. It's something you do to ramp up your strength in preparation for training your main sport. I would estimate that most people doing Stronglifts aren't really training much of anything else.

I think your two best options are to either knock the cycling on the head for a while until you hit your strength targets, or if you feel you've gone as far as you can on stronglifts, switch programs. Staying on stronglifts but without the squats isn't the worst thing, but I don't think it's optimal. Cycling doesn't compensate for lifting heavy with your legs, so I wouldn't look at it that way - just accept that you have other things going on which mean you can't train squat as much and work around that.

Are you weight training specifically to get better at cycling, or is it just something you do on the side?

artengo

Thanks for the replies lads.

No Im not weight training specifically for cycling.
I just do it becuase I enjoy it but if it helps then even better.
I dont want gym to ever get in the way of a cycle so no way im stopping the cycling so I can get stronger.
I might knock stronglifts down to just one squat a week with the rest of the stuff. Or if any one would be so kind as to offer a plan?

Doug Cartel

There are lots of good plans out there, but you could look at West Side for Skinny Bastards. It looks a bit more complicated than Stronglifts, but once you figure it out it's easy enough to implement. There's a thread here with a bit of extra explanation: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60146801

The good thing about it is that it is quite flexible and you can tailor it to suit your needs. The bad thing is that can take a bit longer to get through all the parts each session. There's only one big leg exercise per week and you do it for a low number of reps, which might suit you better.

Brian?

Doug Cartel wrote: »

There are lots of good plans out there, but you could look at West Side for Skinny Bastards. It looks a bit more complicated than Stronglifts, but once you figure it out it's easy enough to implement. There's a thread here with a bit of extra explanation: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60146801

The good thing about it is that it is quite flexible and you can tailor it to suit your needs. The bad thing is that can take a bit longer to get through all the parts each session. There's only one big leg exercise per week and you do it for a low number of reps, which might suit you better.

+1 to this.

jane82

Im training after back surgery. Im too scared to put anything heavy on my shoulders just yet because sometimes the back spasms and the legs lose control sometimes.
I cycle in heavy gears up hills and do 1 legged squats. Its working out grand but Im sure itll only work up to a point.
Depends really what your goals are. The bigger you get the slower your cycling will become regardless unless its all down hill.

Doug Cartel

jane82 wrote: »

Im training after back surgery. Im too scared to put anything heavy on my shoulders just yet because sometimes the back spasms and the legs lose control sometimes.

I think I went about a year without doing any heavy squats after I had shoulder surgery. It wasn't exactly the end of the world.

The bigger you get the slower your cycling will become regardless unless its all down hill.

Track cyclists tend to be pretty big. There's an interview here with Chris Hoy where he says :

I’m focused on doing really heavy weights for maybe four to 10 reps. You are basically looking to lift all you physically can for those repetitions in three main exercises: the squat, the deadlift and the leg press

Now I know that track is quite different to road, but you can't really say bigger = slower.

You might also say bigger means less endurance, but then there is this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057176277

Alf Veedersane

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Now I know that track is quite different to road, but you can't really say bigger = slower.

No but top road cyclists that will be competing for the grand tours will be conscious of their power output-to-weight ratio.

It's only really the sprinters that are big.

Aside from Jan Ulrich but he was fond of the special smarties...

Doug Cartel

I guess my point was that a hobbyist cyclist who squats heavy once a week is probably not going to get too big to go fast.

Alf Veedersane

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I guess my point was that a hobbyist cyclist who squats heavy once a week is probably not going to get too big to go fast.

You'll never win the Tour de France with that attitude!

davyjose

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

No but top road cyclists that will be competing for the grand tours will be conscious of their power output-to-weight ratio.

i have a feeling the OP won't be looking for a Podium place in paris in July

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's only really the sprinters that are big.

These guys still drag themselves around the Alps and Pyrenees for three weeks and have plenty left in the tank for a final sprint.

My point is, if these guys can do it, the OP can still squat and cycle. in fact it would probably be beneficial. Three times a week is pushing it though.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Aside from Jan Ulrich but he was fond of the special smarties...

In fairness, he wasn't alone.

Alf Veedersane

davyjose wrote: »

i have a feeling the OP won't be looking for a Podium place in paris in July

These guys still drag themselves around the Alps and Pyrenees for three weeks and have plenty left in the tank for a final sprint.

My point is, if these guys can do it, the OP can still squat and cycle. in fact it would probably be beneficial. Three times a week is pushing it though.


In fairness, he wasn't alone.

There are plenty of intermediate sprint points especially during mountain stages where they usually don't figure amongst stage winners.

I never said Ulrich was alone. Just that he's one of the few 'big' cyclists that competed for the grand tours.

But in any case, the OP probably won't be on a podium on the continent anytime soon but I was just addressing that singular point rather than suggesting the OP shouldn't squat.

artengo

I certainly wont be on any podiums unless the kids school do a parents slow bike race on sports day.

I will be doing a few 160 to 200 km sportives every summer though. At least 200km a week over 2 or 3 days.

In the gym and kitchen I dont think I will be putting on much mass either. I weigh about 82kg. I had hoped to press 60 for 5, bench 90 for 5, dead 160 for 5 and squat 110 for 5.
I think I could have hit that based on numbers from a few years ago if I only went to the gym and did no sport. Now I see I cant get anywhere near that while enjoying cycling.

Something has to go. Cycling or squats. Cycling wins every time.
But can you think of any reason it would be a bad idea to aim for the above mentioned bench and press targets while doing no squats or having a self imposed squat plateau of about 70kg. Could I look out of proportion with skinny legs and a decent upper body? Could It lead to injuries or body imbalances?

Doug Cartel

Compared to those other numbers, a squat of 110 would be on the low side.

Right now you're burned out from doing 5*5 three times a week. Switch to a program where you're only doing one heavy leg lift a week and your outlook will probably change.

artengo

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Compared to those other numbers, a squat of 110 would be on the low side.

Right now you're burned out from doing 5*5 three times a week. Switch to a program where you're only doing one heavy leg lift a week and your outlook will probably change.

Yeah have always been weak on squat. I think its a flexability problem as well as a strength problem. Im working on that too.
Will try the WFSB maybe if I can get my head around it.

Thanks for your time

Doug Cartel

Technique will have a huge impact on the amount you can lift. Doing the squat with bad form can also lead to excessive amounts of soreness, which will impact your cycling. If you're going to do them, it would be well worth your while making sure you're doing them right.

Inspector Coptoor

Squat mondays and wednesdays.
Do upper body thursday or friday
Cycle saturday.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

I cycle over 100km a week commuting & do another 50-60km at weekends. If i know the spin will be longer/tougher. Ill tailor the weights sesh accordingly on the thurs/fri

LuckyLloyd

Reduce your weight training volume. Keep the compounds over two training sessions. Will allow you to keep tipping away at your strength work while leaving yourself fresher for your cycling sessions.

Squat
Bench
Row
Some accessories if you want

Deadlift
Press
Pull Ups
Some accessories if you want

Strength training provides a value and payoff that you can't get on the bike.

artengo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Reduce your weight training volume. Keep the compounds over two training sessions. Will allow you to keep tipping away at your strength work while leaving yourself fresher for your cycling sessions.

Squat
Bench
Row
Some accessories if you want

Deadlift
Press
Pull Ups
Some accessories if you want

The simplicity of that is very appealing.
What do you mean by accessories?

Inspector Coptoor

I'd take it he means exercises like:

Single leg work - lunges/split squats/SL RDLS
Some direct arm training
Core work - isometric holds/rotational


And yeah, it's a nice simple template that would serve you well

colman1212

Just do legs once a week and enjoy your cycling. Get your nutrition right and you won't have any problems. If you have a big cycle on a saturday, train legs on tuesday.
Every sport has the same issue, If a lad has a rugby match on a saturday, you can be pretty sure he won't be squatting on a friday night.

LuckyLloyd

artengo wrote: »

The simplicity of that is very appealing.
What do you mean by accessories?

Really, what I mean here is bicep curls and lateral raises, etc. Get your pump on, do some planks or whatever.

It could be RDLs or Good Mornings or whatever, but really I'd say that if you do each of the big six things once a week and are on the bike a lot thereafter you'll be sorted.