So heavy rain (spoilers)

cloud493

So heavy rain. I don't know exactly how people reacted to it when it came out over 4 years ago now, but I recently went back and played it through again after getting the platinum back at launch, and its only now I've realized what a terrible game and story it is. I haven't played beyond yet, but I can't imagine its much better.

To be more specific [The identity of the killer. What the ****. Now maybe its not a bad idea, having one of the playable characters being the killer, but here's the thing, the game gives you the ability to see your players thoughts. I can see shelbys thoughts. Shelby doesn't think anything about his role as the killer, he plays as a regular character. The revelation is a load of ****e. And shelbys whole motivation is a bunch of rubbish, Ethan jumps out in front of a car at the beginning of the game to save one of his son. His son dies. So shelby thinks 'I will now test him to see if he is a good father' ....what?

Your FBI agent has an unexplained drug habit. Ethan has a habit of waking up with origamis in his hand which was never explained. The female character Madison is almost entirely redundant.

And the gameplay, isn't any good. Apart from the well known tank controls of the game, there's also not much to do generally. Maybe its meant to be seen as an interactive movie, I don't know. But its boring, and the story doesn't prop it up (like just as an example of a game I really like with a good story backing up average gameplay, bioshock infinite)

For someone like Cage who claims to try to advance video games into meaningful ways, and who talks about emotions in games a lot, his games aren't very good, and his understanding of emotion seems limited to pain, fear, sadness. And he doesn't even seem to get those very well.

richymcdermott

Father dives to save son from car , car hits you yet you survive and child dies

Yup great logic there from mr.cage.

Also that whole shopping centre thing was stupid 1. A kid walks off to the clown with the balloon grand kids do that and the father corrected him not to wander off then why Dafuq would the child go all the way downstairs and make his way to the front entrance , cross the road and the dopey look as if his parents were outside when they were just upstairs.

And of course the wife screams for jason while you lie there , possibly dead aswell but not a damn was given.

johnny_ultimate

I have in the past stated that Heavy Rain is one of the worst written things in history - irregardless of medium - largely due to how cheap the ending is.

I stand by that statement.

Dont be at yourself

It has major flaws, but gimme something like Heavy Rain over Infamous etc any day. One of the most interesting games of the generation, and a must-play, in my book.

cloud493

But infamous is fun.

Mr E

Jason.... Jaaaaason..... Jason ... JASON! ... Jason ... JASON ... Jaaaason ... JASON! ... Jason ... Jason ... JASON! .... Jason ... Jason ... Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaason ... JASON!

Retr0gamer

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I have in the past stated that Heavy Rain is one of the worst written things in history - irregardless of medium - largely due to how cheap the ending is.

If it wasn't for the Kingdom Hearts series I'd agree.

Since Heavy Rain is so light on gameplay it really needed a good story to stand out and it utterly failed. The story is not just bad it's insulting to the player. It's like David Cage thought his audience was so dumb that they wouldn't recognise the gaping plot holes (

if Shelby was the killer than most of the stuff he does makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

) and the red herrings, most of which have already been mentioned.

I really think this game should get pulled up a lot more on it's awful treatment of the character Madison. It's downright sexist. Madison is a woman and therefore uses her body to get through most situations instead of her brains. There's the awful sleazy lap dance scene and then when she jumps into bed with Ethan for no reason other than she is a woman. The scene with her with the psycho in the basement was bizarre and random. However the absolute worst was the sequence in the appartment that looked like an attempted gang rape. It was only in there so that Madison could get her baps out in a shower scene and added nothing at all to the overall narractive because... it was all a dream.

cloud493

Hey I'm the only woman character. I better have a dream sequence in which I fight guys in my bra which has literally no connection to the plot at all.

super_furry

Mr E wrote: »

Jason.... Jaaaaason..... Jason ... JASON! ... Jason ... JASON ... Jaaaason ... JASON! ... Jason ... Jason ... JASON! .... Jason ... Jason ... Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaason ... JASON!

That coupled with the dodgy controls and gameplay mechanic were enough for me to dump it.

Retr0gamer

Not sure if this still works:

http://www.kongregate.com/games/kthorjensen/press-x-to-jason

RobertFoster

I put David Cage and Peter Molyneux in the same category. They promise you fantastic and wonderful things when hyping their games, but in the end you get a passable (leaning towards good) game without all the promises. I wonder if the vision of their games is better in their heads, but they just can't get it fully across to the rest of the development team; or maybe they run out of time/money before they can create what they fully want.

They should collaborate and see what happens

moc moc a moc

I knew what to expect beforehand from Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy, so I enjoyed it for what it was (more of an interactive story than an actual game).

It's certainly flawed, but entertaining enough if you understand what the developers were going for IMO.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

irregardless

That's not a word.

cloud493

The plot absolutely ruins it though.

lertsnim

I must play it again to see what my feelings towards it are like now

Fakman87

I really admired it at the time. It was great to see a AAA video game move in a different direction to the pack.

Mr.Saturn

Fakman87 wrote: »

I really admired it at the time. It was great to see a AAA video game move in a different direction to the pack.

I appreciate someone's trying it, alright, but the Shelby stuff in the end, namely the Clock Shop schmozz, just pisses on decent storytelling from such a great height it qualifies as actual heavy rain.

Pushtrak

I liked Fahrenheit a lot - even passed the point where most got sick of it. I didn't find Heavy Rain as bad as some people here found it but definitely didn't find it particularly good. I don't plan on playing Beyond.

cloud493

I'd like to play beyond to see if Cage has made any advance at all. Not very hopeful though.

Pushtrak

I don't remember seeing anyone post to suggest that Beyond is an improvement on Heavy Rain. The opposite, I think.

corcaigh07

I liked Heavy rain a lot, thought it was more interesting than the latest realistic brown FPS at least.

However, zero interest to replay it. The game is an experience and you just have to go with it. David Cage even said it doesn't stand up to repeat sittings.

I was happy with how I played it, go with the outcome you got, YouTube the rest.

Angron

Mr E wrote: »

Jason.... Jaaaaason..... Jason ... JASON! ... Jason ... JASON ... Jaaaason ... JASON! ... Jason ... Jason ... JASON! .... Jason ... Jason ... Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaason ... JASON!

The Shaun glitch was pretty fantastic.

Skerries

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Not sure if this still works:

http://www.kongregate.com/games/kthorjensen/press-x-to-jason

I got 249 Jason's in 30 seconds

Penn

In the course of the game, you have to tie the necktie for a police captain who is about 55 years old.

The game gets so stuck for you to do something, that they have to come up with ridiculous things for you to do like tying the necktie for a 55 year old man who is the head of that police department's homicide division. They have to play it off as though this police captain, who as well as having been trained in a police academy and spending years working his way up through the ranks of the police force, has suddenly developed the inability to tie his own f*cking necktie, even though he likely wears a f*cking necktie every f*cking goddamn day because he's the f*cking head of the homicide department and has been wearing a f*cking tie in every other f*cking part of the game he was in.

That's why in retrospect, the game really is awful. They constantly realise you haven't needed to press anything in 30 seconds, so they come up with ridiculous things which take you out of the story just so it still feels like a game.

(Sorry, that f*cking necktie bit really, really annoyed me)

Morpork

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_56257iS77A

cloud493

The good bits in fact, say Ethan cutting off his own finger, Chasing the drug dealer through his flat, are ruined because of their context in the story. For me anyway.

Penn

Oh yeah, and that action sequence with Madison being attacked in her apartment which turns out was actually just a dream can f*ck right off too.

landsleaving

I'm guessing Cage's inner monologue is this:

AHA! I'm a genius, I have written an amazing new story, full of twists and turns and ludicrous situations! Go me. I shall wait some time, and return to it for another look.

Later:

Oh dear, this is not my opus. No, Hollywood will reject this, even the brain in a jar that writes CSI will reject this.

What should I do? I spent so much time on... WAIT! People who play video games accept terrible plots. All I have to do is add some interactive bits and no one will ever know!

And soon, I, David Cage, will take over the world...

Pushtrak

David Cage: "I actually have probably my next three games in mind."

I'm sure everyone here is ecstatic.

Mr.Saturn

Problem is, he's writing in a field in which the fact isn't all that much appreciated or supported or developed, specifically within the AAA industry. so any auld wally can come along and feel distinguished for even the slightest of efforts. Though Cage's fatal flaw is that what he did with the plot outright disrespects the player/viewer and can't even adhere to its own continuity; you might as well have been told Shelby was a yak the whole time.

And just a general notice, the retort of 'pffffttt, it's just a game' is precisely why the likes of Cage can creep in and drop his turdy turds.

cloud493

But then as most of us on here know, thats just not true. Apart from the fact Cage's own game was called an 'interactive drama' there's plenty of games where the story drives the gameplay, so its more than just a game, Last of us, bioshock infinite, etc, and thats just recent examples.

.ak

Mr E wrote: »

Jason.... Jaaaaason..... Jason ... JASON! ... Jason ... JASON ... Jaaaason ... JASON! ... Jason ... Jason ... JASON! .... Jason ... Jason ... Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaason ... JASON!

I hate you.

Dyr

I wouldnt touch anything David Cage had a hand in after Fahrenheit

tok9

I actually remember enjoying the game and at least being interested in the story due to the mysteries in it...until it all goes to **** with all the plot holes.

Beyond is probably a better game but I wasn't as forgiving this time regarding the story.

On Cage making more games.. I don't really mind that. If nothing else they are different. It's up to you the consumer if you want to play it or not.

Retr0gamer

David Cage could potentially make a good game if he would hire an actual writer.

tok9

Retr0gamer wrote: »

David Cage could potentially make a good game if he would hire an actual writer.

You get the sense he has far too big an ego to do that though..

C14N

cloud493 wrote: »

And shelbys whole motivation is a bunch of rubbish, Ethan jumps out in front of a car at the beginning of the game to save one of his son. His son dies. So shelby thinks 'I will now test him to see if he is a good father' ....what?

I played it at launch so my memory is a little fuzzy but did the fact Ethan jumped in front of a car have anything to do with Shelby? I thought it was just an unrelated new tragic event to happen to Ethan.

cloud493 wrote: »

Your FBI agent has an unexplained drug habit.

What is there to explain?

cloud493 wrote: »

For someone like Cage who claims to try to advance video games into meaningful ways, and who talks about emotions in games a lot, his games aren't very good, and his understanding of emotion seems limited to pain, fear, sadness. And he doesn't even seem to get those very well.

This is true. This game is so overbearingly grim and humourless that it can be hard to take it seriously, especially when contrasted with how overbearingly cheerful it is at the start.

Pushtrak wrote: »

I don't remember seeing anyone post to suggest that Beyond is an improvement on Heavy Rain. The opposite, I think.

Indeed. I'm not sure if it's actually worse or if people are just sick of this stuff but Beyond definitely had a worse reception than Heavy Rain.

tok9 wrote: »

You get the sense he has far too big an ego to do that though..

True, although the same could be said of Dan Houser. For some reason video game director's are very reluctant to hand over script writing control to others.

I played Heavy Rain when it came out (it came with the PS3 I bought) and generally liked it. Not saying it was fantastic but it was an interesting development. The story seemed like general airport-novel drama, the acting had some issues and the character models occasionally slipped into uncanny valley but I still liked how much you could affect the story. I'd give it a C but maybe I would think differently if I went back to it now.

cloud493

Well Ethan jumps in front of the car. Jason dies. Ethans grief and refusal to move on means his wife leaves him, hence why he only gets shaun at certain weekends.

I see what you mean though and no its not entirely connected.