Bringing a bluetooth ODB2 fault reader while viewing a car.

GobblyNob

Do people do this? I was thinking of buying one off ebay and using the Torque android App. Anybody have any experience with this?

georgefalls

If the seller disagrees, he may have something to hide. Personally, if you bought a car from me, I'd have no problems with you connecting it up. Hell, I'd even do it for you with my own reader

GobblyNob

Thanks.

I'm thinking of getting this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-Mini-ELM327-v1-5-OBD2-OBDII-Bluetooth-Adapter-Auto-Scanner-Blue-UK-/151196831297?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2334088e41

How would I know which cars are compatible with it? Anything over 2001 I think?

bazz26

Just remember that some people are still not very tech savy so the thought of a complete stranger looking to plug a small devise into a port in their car may not appeal to them. Don't be completely surprised if you find some resistance.

Just saying.

Guy:Incognito

bazz26 wrote: »

Just remember that some people are still not very tech savy so the thought of a complete stranger looking to plug a small devise into a port in their car may not appeal to them. Don't be completely surprised if you find some resistance.

Just saying.

I'd imagine some that are plenty tech savvy might have reservations too given what can be done with open access to the cars systems. It's not far fetched for someone to be able to copy details to make a key with afterwards, even while your watching. Software can be doing plenty of things in the backround.

bazz26

Indeed. I wouldn't be too comfortable with it myself being honest.

ofcork

Didn't some poster on here bring a code reader with him in the luxo thread iirc,it may become more commonplace soon with modern cars so no more tape over dash lights.

georgefalls

Can't see a problem, as long as you supervise the operation. All they are looking for is stored codes.

Guy:Incognito

georgefalls wrote: »

All they are looking for is stored codes.

That's all the honest ones are looking for.

Just like the ESB meter reader is looking to read the meter. The thief pretending to be one? Not so much.

georgefalls

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

That's all the honest ones are looking for.

Just like the ESB meter reader is looking to read the meter. The thief pretending to be one? Not so much.

I see your point, but I'm not sure what someone could "thieve" from your car, just by plugging in a code reader

r3nu4l

georgefalls wrote: »

I see your point, but I'm not sure what someone could "thieve" from your car, just by plugging in a code reader

Just because it looks like a code reader doesn't mean it is a code reader...

It's a little bit 'tinfoil hat' paranoid but at the same time, I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be unless I operated it myself and even then, you don't know what other software is in there and what it might be doing.

pred racer

I have torque pro and the Bluetooth dongle and afaik I can't read stored codes only current ones (I'm open to correction on that though)

georgefalls

pred racer wrote: »

I have torque pro and the Bluetooth dongle and afaik I can't read stored codes only current ones (I'm open to correction on that though)

I think current codes and stored codes are the same, they all stay there until they are cleared.
I'm also open to correction on that as well:)

Henry Ford III

I wouldn't be happy in much the same way as I'd be wary of anyone inserting a usb stick into my pc/laptop/tablet.

Guy:Incognito

georgefalls wrote: »

I think current codes and stored codes are the same, they all stay there until they are cleared.
I'm also open to correction on that as well:)

Yeah. Once they're cleared they're gone and a code reader wont pick them up. So if the seller has a fault hats showing up every few hours even and clears it just before you get there you wont see it unless you drive the car till it comes on.

keithclancy

No way I would let someone plug some no name brand electronics into my car.

If I do it and it breaks something, fair enough. Someone else does it and says "Oh well, bad luck" and walks off.

ironclaw

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Yeah. Once they're cleared they're gone and a code reader wont pick them up. So if the seller has a fault hats showing up every few hours even and clears it just before you get there you wont see it unless you drive the car till it comes on.

Well, I suppose the trick there is to read before and after a through test drive.

For myself personally, if I was selling a car, I'd only allow my own scanner to be used. If someone doesn't trust my scanner, then they would want a really good reason to use their own. I would be against a bluetooth model being used. Too open from a security perspective especially if linked to a phone.

cadaliac

Sorry, no. A total stranger plunging in a device to my car to see what exactly?
Looking for faults before any offer made on the car?

If the buyer was serious and we were at the last part of the sale and they said "on condition that i can use a fault reader" then OK.

But, just a Joe blogs kicking tyres and reading faults from cars, well no, sorry. Not mine.

How is the seller to know what the buyer is up to?

zarquon

I've done this on the last 2 cars that i bought without any resistance from the seller and these were high value cars. My rule of thumb is that if a seller refuses to allow this i walk away unless they can provide their own current diagnostic. Too much clocking and other shenanigans going on these days. It's a buyer's market so if the seller doesn't like it i will go elsewhere. TBH i would be suspicious of any seller that would refuse to allow a supervised OBD scan.

cadaliac

zarquon wrote: »

I've done this on the last 2 cars that i bought without any resistance from the seller and these were high value cars. My rule of thumb is that if a seller refuses to allow this i walk away unless they can provide their own current diagnostic. Too much clocking and other shenanigans going on these days. It's a buyer's market so if the seller doesn't like it i will go elsewhere. TBH i would be suspicious of any seller that would refuse to allow a supervised OBD scan.

Yes, you bought the cars. I would allow a serious buyer. Not otherwise. It should be one of the last things you ask the seller to allow/provide.

CountingCrows

zarquon wrote: »

Too much clocking and other shenanigans going on these days.

What error codes would indicate clocking?

MarkR

I've done that on my last two purchases. Seller didn't have an issue. One was private, one was a dealer.

burke027

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I'd imagine some that are plenty tech savvy might have reservations too given what can be done with open access to the cars systems. It's not far fetched for someone to be able to copy details to make a key with afterwards, even while your watching. Software can be doing plenty of things in the backround.

There's no cheap code reader going to copy the key come down out of that

ironclaw

burke027 wrote: »

There's no cheap code reader going to copy the key come down out of that

It would be dead easy to make an innocent looking OBD scanner hide something more sinister. Even easier if your communicating via a phone because you have no idea what is being transmitted or received. You could be running any software you please.

Its possible to hijack an iPhone with a device that fits inside the standard USB charger. I'd imagine with an Arduino or similar, you could do the same with OBD. Then merely cloak in a standard reader. You'd make a (dodgy and immoral) mint if you could deploy a device that looked like an eBay cheapy but could read and later program a key.

Guy:Incognito

burke027 wrote: »

There's no cheap code reader going to copy the key come down out of that

As Ironclaw says, just because it looks like the cheap ebay Bluetooth dongle doesn't mean it is. I could open the case on mine and swap the internals for anything and itd still look like the €10 dongle I bought.

Ive a Lexia and a Dice for dealer level diagnostics, I could do plenty of damage with those even if all I wanted to do was mess the car up.

_Kaiser_

One of the lads in work was buying a Golf a while ago and asked if I'd come look at it with him. Brought my laptop and copy of VCDS as well to run a scan for him.

Seller had no problem with it (sound bloke actually), car checked out, paid for and going grand since.

djimi

burke027 wrote: »

There's no cheap code reader going to copy the key come down out of that

Its not a case of what it can do, its a case of what the seller might think that it can do. Not everyone it tech savvy and knows what an ODB reader can and cant do.

People can walk away from sales for refusal to allow a code reader to be used if they like, but in no way does it mean that the seller is dodgy, just that they do not understand the technology and do not trust the buyer (completely understandable).

keithclancy

zarquon wrote: »

I've done this on the last 2 cars that i bought without any resistance from the seller and these were high value cars. My rule of thumb is that if a seller refuses to allow this i walk away unless they can provide their own current diagnostic. Too much clocking and other shenanigans going on these days. It's a buyer's market so if the seller doesn't like it i will go elsewhere. TBH i would be suspicious of any seller that would refuse to allow a supervised OBD scan.

So if you plugged it in and there was a burning smell followed by the car not starting ?

Whats the course of action then ?

nd

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Yeah. Once they're cleared they're gone and a code reader wont pick them up. So if the seller has a fault hats showing up every few hours even and clears it just before you get there you wont see it unless you drive the car till it comes on.

The emissions readiness monitor status will show some or all of the tests as incomplete if any codes were recently cleared though. So if it is showing that you'll know codes were cleared.

Regarding someone not willing to let you plug in a reader. I'd walk away. If the seller is not willing to trust you to perform that basic test how can you trust them enough to buy the car.

cadaliac

nd wrote: »

The emissions readiness monitor status will show some or all of the tests as incomplete if any codes were recently cleared though. So if it is showing that you'll know codes were cleared.

Regarding someone not willing to let you plug in a reader. I'd walk away. If the seller is not willing to trust you to perform that basic test how can you trust them enough to buy the car.

It's fine when dealing with motor enthusiasts who know and understand what you are doing.
And, on the other side of the coin I'm sure that I could probably trust a motors boardsie if the came to look at my car and asked to use a scanner

However, not everyone will allow this to happen with a complete stranger. They don't know what you are doing.
So you walk away from a perfect car because the owner who is neither a car enthusiast or in any way tech savy won't allow to connect the scanner.
Off with you. Plenty of nutters out there too
Like I said, if I felt comfortable with the buyer I would have no issue either but it would have to be the latter stages of the deal.

nd

Yes I'd agree. Whether buying or selling if I got a bad/untrustworthy feeling off the other party I wouldn't proceed.

Alanstrainor

When I bought my yoke the seller had his own reader, and showed me that there was no codes. I have my own, so would probably suggest using that. Part of me would be wary of someone, but on a cheapy like my car, no one would be arsed stealing it so I would probably let them fire away.

zarquon

keithclancy wrote: »

So if you plugged it in and there was a burning smell followed by the car not starting ?

Whats the course of action then ?

What if i turned the key and the starter blew out? What if i turned on the radio and the amp blew? What if i crashed the car on a test drive. So many possibilities but strange hypotheticals are pointless. If a seller was that petty, i would most certainly walk away.

By your logic no no one should test drive a car in case they damage it somehow and good luck selling a car with that type of atitude.

Guy:Incognito

zarquon wrote: »

What if i turned the key and the starter blew out? What if i turned on the radio and the amp blew? What if i crashed the car on a test drive. So many possibilities but strange hypotheticals are pointless. If a seller was that petty, i would most certainly walk away.

By your logic no no one should test drive a car in case they damage it somehow and good luck selling a car with that type of atitude.

Those things are normal use of the car and parts of the car. Plugging in a bit of cheap Chinese diagnostic reader of unknown origin and quality is different. It's piece of equipment being introduced to the car. If it was faulty I could potentially short and damage the car. That's without the person looking to plug it in potentially doing something deliberately malicious or trying to steal it.

zarquon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Those things are normal use of the car and parts of the car. Plugging in a bit of cheap Chinese diagnostic reader of unknown origin and quality is different. It's piece of equipment being introduced to the car. If it was faulty I could potentially short and damage the car. That's without the person looking to plug it in potentially doing something deliberately malicious or trying to steal it.

A fair point, but i would still not take the risk. It is always the latter part of a deal anyway. When i have made a decision to buy a car it's usually the last step to ensure that it is okay before i give final sign off. If at that point a seller still won't budge then i'll move on. It's not like i am buying rare cars so i have usually plenty of choice for my preference.

Of course there is other criteria too, if i am splashing a lot of cash and the seller is not confortable i could suggest to take it to a dealer and them run a diagnostic which i would pay for if necessary. If i am splashing 20K+ on a private sale i would prefer this peace of mind.

If a seller would refuse to allow a personal ODB scan or allow a dealer to run a diagnostic then there would be something dodgy going on.

At the same time what if i pull up with my ross-tech vagcom? I think their may be some hypocrisy on this thread because some would happily let someone use VCDS to help them out in a situation but then say to a buyer that they could not use their vagcom cable in the car.

Each to their own at the end of the day. I don't buy cheap cars, and have spashed almost 40K on my last 2 cars therefore i required service histories, car history checks and diagnostics before signing over the drafts.

If you are selling a common car in a saturated market then you need to accomodating towards a buyer. If you have a rare or special car you can call the shots.