Brock vs Undertaker WM30 Discussion *WM30 Spoilers*

rovert

I know Undetaker is a tragic MMA mark but seriously. Brock???

krudler

I don't get it either, a match with a crap build, a crap match with an uninterested crowd and a snail's pace, 22 years build to throw it away on someone who might not even be on Raw tomorrow night. Punk must be absolutely raging, it could have been him last year.

Diabhal Beag

I presume he finally though he couldn't do a good match. Even tonight was one of the poorer efforts in recent years, which is completely understandable. I know he should've put over Reigns or whoever but he probably physically couldn't go another year.

Agent Coulson

I ddon't mind the Streak being broken. But to lesnar is just stupid!

DM_7

It was mental, poorly booked feud and bad match.

But I don't mind that it was the Beast that did it and I am glad it's over.

I don't think he could go amother year, too early for Reigns and no outstanding candidate to be the one.

Alfred Borden

botch?

ricero

Raf32 wrote: »

botch?

Nah I think he be retiring on raw

Angron

It seems that most peoples issues aren't that the streak is gone, but who it's gone to. Unless Lesnar comes back full time proper, there's no way to really capitalise on this.

Foggy.nelson

Maybe this is another reason why punk walked

gerrybbadd

I think he has to be retiring. But this was a clustefukc of epic proportions. No build. The wrong guy. The onlynthing done right was the mic silence after the match ended.

Fr. Sensini

When it happened the first thing I thought was it's a botch and then I thought it was going to be a Dusty finish. More than likely Taker was due to go over and they realised he can't go any longer and this will be his last match. They are going to have to come up with something huge for Lesnar after this.

A Primal Nut

I wonder if Punk left because he found out part-timer Lesnar would end the streak instead of him a year earlier. Or at least the final straw. Would explain his silence.

rovert

Also they never did the Cena-Undetaker Wrestlemania money match

hufpc8w3adnk65

They wouldn't have had the 21-1 graphic ready so quick if it was a botch IMO

krudler

Maybe Taker only decided to end it recently? and it was too late to change any plans.

krudler

rovert wrote: »

Also they never did the Cena-Undetaker Wrestlemania money match

The one that genuinely would have people wondering in the build up, since its Cena

Professional Griefer

I'm happy the streak ended but I didn't think they'd give it to Lesner.

Rjd2

Angron wrote: »

It seems that most peoples issues aren't that the streak is gone, but who it's gone to. Unless Lesnar comes back full time proper, there's no way to really capitalise on this.

I'd be shocked,he is on monster money just for parttime and some would argue the longer he has been here, the more star power he loses. Unless Taker can't go for another year, than its a silly choice and even then, if Taker knew before he came back this was it, should have given it to someone else and i like Brock.

Ape Lincoln

People are tweeting from the Silverdome that there's adults in tears leaving, chants of refund etc.

I hope this means there won't be a match with Sting the gasbag next year.

PerrinV2

Tis all a conspiracy,they've been planning it for years!



*probably not though

spiralism

Should have ended the show on it. It deflated the crowd for a lot of the main event and while they got back into it, it paled completely to how over Bryan was with the same crowd two hours before.

Still though, that was hands down the most stunning moment i've watched in wrestling. Probably the most shocking since Montreal.

hufpc8w3adnk65

spiralism wrote: »

Should have ended the show on it. It deflated the crowd for a lot of the main event and while they got back into it, it paled completely to how over Bryan was with the same crowd two hours before.

Still though, that was hands down the most stunning moment i've watched in wrestling. Probably the most shocking since Montreal.

So after Bryan wins the world title you don't think anyone would see a swerve coming having the streak match last??? Sound!

Rjd2

MrMac84 wrote: »

So after Bryan wins the world title you don't think anyone would see a swerve coming having the streak match last??? Sound!

You could have argued it could have gone last as Taker and Brock are arguably bigger draws than the 3 guys in the WWE Title match and maybe it would be an attempt to build some last minute intrigue in a match which most had considered a foregone conclusion.

seandotcomm

Taker probably got wind of the Sting plans for next year and was "lolz, cya's ladzzz"

D.Q

it didnt ruin the crowd at all. Im glad its over, it had been built up too much. Only 3/4 actually decent matches out of the 22.

spiralism

MrMac84 wrote: »

So after Bryan wins the world title you don't think anyone would see a swerve coming having the streak match last??? Sound!

Taker's headlined before on a streak match hasn't he? Or would i be wrong and it was a title one?

Nobody saw that coming. Nobody. If it was last people would have just thought it was a send off and he wasn't doing another mania. Nothing would have tipped it to anyone but the biggest smarks. Part of why it was so stunning was the undersell. Whereas in other years we'd been built up into believing it could, this time Brock was undersold and the match lacked tension for precisely that reason. End result is probably the most shocking moment in the history of Wrestlemania and something people will NEVER stop talking about.

bur

Horrible execution, no proper build up, for this to work people needed to go in believing that Lesnar had a legitimate chance. That's why the crowd were so uninterested in the match.

Chagan

I wonder did Bearer's death scupper plans of ending it last year? It just seems astounding to me that Brock is considered the man to do it.

spiralism

Chagan wrote: »

I wonder did Bearer's death scupper plans of ending it last year? It just seems astounding to me that Brock is considered the man to do it.

Sting to go straight into a program with Lesnar. Huge heat for the feud from the off.

In doing this WWE have basically cemented Lesnar as their top Heel for the foreseeable, even if he's only a part timer. It's a bit like the way Taker was the ultimate face about 10 years ago, when he came out, **** was going to go down and it was always going to end badly for the bad guys. Now Lesnar is set up as a near indestructible boss heel.

seandotcomm

It's not too often you have a ( presumably ) career ending match of this importance without some sort of meaningful show of respect at the end, ala Flair v Michaels, or Michaels v Taker. Strange to have him lose to a heel like Lesnar who leaves laughing. Hasnt been something like that really since heel HHH "ending" Mick Foley's career at No Way Out 2000. ( well, the 15 year old me thought that was the end of Foley anyway ). Just added to the shock aspect of it, Heyman and Lesnar's reaction.. not that I'd expect their characters to be "respectful" after the win but would have been a nice touch to have that type of finish with another opponent

Jester252

Taker had planned on ending it to Brock a few years ago, but plans fell through.

A Primal Nut

I think it sums up something about Vince that the fans miss. For the fans it's what makes sense booking-wise; or what makes sense for the future. What finish would work out best for WWE six months down the line?

For Vince, it's mostly about what will make a great WrestleMania. What will leave the fans going home happy or what will give them a shocking result? Let the next few months worry about themselves. Cena and Lesnar's wins sums that up. It drives the smarks mad but I would miss that unpredictability if smark-logic completely took over the WWE.

Sirsok

I like to think that Heyman will benefit the most from it, calling himself the greatest manager in history etc and that will only benefit any new Paul Heyman guys.

deano546

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I think it sums up something about Vince that the fans miss. For the fans it's what makes sense booking-wise; or what makes sense for the future. What finish would work out best for WWE six months down the line?

For Vince, it's mostly about what will make a great WrestleMania. What will leave the fans going home happy or what will give them a shocking result? Let the next few months worry about themselves. Cena and Lesnar's wins sums that up. It drives the smarks mad but I would miss that unpredictability if smark-logic completely took over the WWE.

I think it was Undertaker's call, not Vince.

A Primal Nut

deano546 wrote: »

I think it was Undertaker's call, not Vince.

Probably, but Vince still has the final say. I've heard he rejected various suggestions from the Undertaker about ending the streak before.

Anyway when I refer to Vince in this sense, I really mean WWE writing as a whole.

Ape Lincoln

Jester252 wrote: »

Taker had planned on ending it to Brock a few years ago, but plans fell through.

And Kane lest we forget.

This poor guy though will meme'd till the cows come home

Moneymaker

It would have been Takers call, 100%

Rjd2

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I think it sums up something about Vince that the fans miss. For the fans it's what makes sense booking-wise; or what makes sense for the future. What finish would work out best for WWE six months down the line?

For Vince, it's mostly about what will make a great WrestleMania. What will leave the fans going home happy or what will give them a shocking result? Let the next few months worry about themselves. Cena and Lesnar's wins sums that up. It drives the smarks mad but I would miss that unpredictability if smark-logic completely took over the WWE.

And to be fair Bryan closing Mania after beating Trips one on one clean as a whistle and then Orton and batista should be more than enough to keep smarks happy. I mean seriously if you told someone that would happen at Mania you would be laughed at a few years ago. Its an amazing moment which sadly seems to have been lost with all the talk over Taker.

And of course the beginning of what looks like a Cesaro push and The Shield still going strong, the WWE got much more right than wrong tonight.:)

spiralism

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I think it sums up something about Vince that the fans miss. For the fans it's what makes sense booking-wise; or what makes sense for the future. What finish would work out best for WWE six months down the line?

For Vince, it's mostly about what will make a great WrestleMania. What will leave the fans going home happy or what will give them a shocking result? Let the next few months worry about themselves. Cena and Lesnar's wins sums that up. It drives the smarks mad but I would miss that unpredictability if smark-logic completely took over the WWE.

Essentially tonight summed up why Vince is the one who's made millions in television and smarks are just smarks. They build up to Wrestlemania all year and this one was one of the best and possibly the most memorable.

Down the line they could be screwed but with Taker old as the hills anyways and Punk off in a sulk he just went "**** it" and went for the biggest impact. Leave those problems to sort themselves and still have enough to work with for the biggest shows. If they do end up getting Sting he knows they'll probably be grand and can work him in with Lesnar who will probably have heat not seen since HHH in the early 2000s. If Punk does get over his sulk the company's actually not in bad shape at all and just had a Wrestlemania that TV history was made in.

Rjd2

Sirsok wrote: »

I like to think that Heyman will benefit the most from it, calling himself the greatest manager in history etc and that will only benefit any new Paul Heyman guys.

Initially but what a rub it will be for someone who beats Brock at his next PPV.
Brock lost a lot of his aura after the Trips feud, its well and truly back now.

Money will be made of Taker losing tonight, so its not the disaster booking that some have suggested.

rovert

A Primal Nut

Never want to hear anyone complain that WWE is predictable ever again....:p

Ape Lincoln

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Never want to hear anyone complain that WWE is predictable again....

But predictable is good sometimes. Unpredictable doesn't neccesarily equal a good angle or a good match.

I think someone here said the other day that since the Taker/Lesnar build sucked that people could turn on streak. Good call.

A Rogue Hobo

I don't get why people think it should have gone to an up and comer like Reigns or something. You can't give the streak to someone who is an unproven draw. Easiest comparison is Miz, headlined Wrestlemania a few years ago, now is a random dude eliminated in a battle royal. Do you really want to run the risk of giving the streak away to someone who just might not work out the way the company hoped in the future and realise when it's way too late that you just pissed it away for nothing? Lesnar is a huge name, he's had a few losses, this re-establishes him as the biggest monster and heel in WWE. Makes sense to me.

Fr. Sensini

A Primal Nut wrote: »

For Vince, it's mostly about what will make a great WrestleMania. What will leave the fans going home happy or what will give them a shocking result? Let the next few months worry about themselves. Cena and Lesnar's wins sums that up. It drives the smarks mad but I would miss that unpredictability if smark-logic completely took over the WWE.

I think Cena would have lost to Wyatt if it wasn't for the streak ending. No point in having two monsters winning. There's a difference between logic and what's predictable. Lesnar winning was a massive shock as hardly anyone would have expected it but made far more sense in storyline terms then an old Taker winning.

Rjd2 wrote: »

Initially but what a rub it will be for someone who beats Brock at his next PPV.
Brock lost a lot of his aura after the Trips feud, its well and truly back now.

Money will be made of Taker losing tonight, so its not the disaster booking that some have suggested.

I'm not sure how many PPV's they have Lesnar for but I hope they go somewhere big with this. After something as huge as this having him job at Summerslam would be an anti-climax. This should be setting up the main event for WMXXXI. If only he hadn't lost to Cena and HHH then he could have his own streak to be broken.

deano546

I think it was a baffling decision. Obviously this was Taker's last match and the "old school mentality" is to put someone over on the way out but in this situation it made little or no sense imo. Its a part timer who probably won't be around in 3 or 4 years time, and while yes this will help his drawing power, that doesn't mean half as much in a WWE Network world.

glenjamin

End of an era

A Primal Nut

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

I don't get why people think it should have gone to an up and comer like Reigns or something. You can't give the streak to someone who is an unproven draw. Easiest comparison is Miz, headlined Wrestlemania a few years ago, now is a random dude eliminated in a battle royal. Do you really want to run the risk of giving the streak away to someone who just might not work out the way the company hoped in the future and realise when it's way too late that you just pissed it away for nothing? Lesnar is a huge name, he's had a few losses, this re-establishes him as the biggest monster and heel in WWE. Makes sense to me.

Let's face it; he'll probably lose in his next feud and then you're back to square one.

A Primal Nut

Ape Lincoln wrote: »

But predictable is good sometimes. Unpredictable doesn't neccesarily equal a good angle or a good match.

I agree, actually. Just usually people complain when WWE is predictable so it was a joke at their expense.:p

irish_stevo815

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

I don't get why people think it should have gone to an up and comer like Reigns or something. You can't give the streak to someone who is an unproven draw. Easiest comparison is Miz, headlined Wrestlemania a few years ago, now is a random dude eliminated in a battle royal. Do you really want to run the risk of giving the streak away to someone who just might not work out the way the company hoped in the future and realise when it's way too late that you just pissed it away for nothing? Lesnar is a huge name, he's had a few losses, this re-establishes him as the biggest monster and heel in WWE. Makes sense to me.

I totally agree. Let's say someone like Dean Ambrose done it, they would be pushed to the moon for a few months but in reality, they should never be allowed to lose a match ever again......until they lose to someone like Heath Slater. Lesnar was the most credible threat at this time.... A proven fighter up against a 50 year old man. To me it makes 100% sense. I just hope they capitalise on this moving forward

Corholio

Along with his shooting star a few years ago and now tonight, Lesnar really has had some WTF moments at Mania.