blackleg

Dunedin

How many on here vaccinate for blackleg.

Farrell

Dunedin wrote: »

How many on here vaccinate for blackleg.

We do here, Tribovax T (yellow box) going out & 6 week later.
This year we're using tribovax 10, as sheep & cattle will be mixed

GrandSoftDay

We do them here , lost 2 calves in the space of a week about 3 years ago with it. Hadn't much of a choice after that. Expensive lesson learned!

f140

Farrell wrote: »

We do here, Tribovax T (yellow box) going out & 6 week later.
This year we're using tribovax 10, as sheep & cattle will be mixed

is that the only thing you would give them going out?

rushvalley

Do all the calves for blackleg here at some stage during the summer. Just the one injection. Does anyone ever give them the follow up shot 2 weeks later?

Reggie.

Yeah we do it here aswell

munkus

Use covexin 10 here for all calves. Only job.

Farrell

f140 wrote: »

is that the only thing you would give them going out?

No I give fluke & worm drench, plus minerals to calves.
Then same again 6 weeks later

Farrell

rushvalley wrote: »

Do all the calves for blackleg here at some stage during the summer. Just the one injection. Does anyone ever give them the follow up shot 2 weeks later?

Is it not 4-6 weeks?

C4d78

rushvalley wrote: »

Do all the calves for blackleg here at some stage during the summer. Just the one injection. Does anyone ever give them the follow up shot 2 weeks later?

Just the one injection here always too. They seem to do ok without the second. Is it recommended in all cases to do a follow up??

ford 5600

Doing them here foe 25 years since lost one in the autumn , first frosty night and still warm days seems ideal for it. Got a bit lax last year and forgot to inject 5 late bucket fed calves for it, lost the best one with blackleg. Lad in knackery told me what it had and that it was rife at the time, maybe beginning of October. Cheapest injection you will use.

J.O. Farmer

Farrell wrote: »

No I give fluke & worm drench, plus minerals to calves.
Then same again 6 weeks later

Why are you fluke and worm drenching going out of the shed. If they are done after housing they won't pick up any more until after they're at grass.

farmersfriend

munkus wrote: »

Use covexin 10 here for all calves. Only job.

+1

bogman_bass

too cheep not to do it. Blackleg has the uncanny knack of seeking out your best animal

Miname

every year and we still always loose one to it.

GrandSoftDay

bogman_bass wrote: »

too cheep not to do it. Blackleg has the uncanny knack of seeking out your best animal

+1 nicked a very good rocky bull calf and another very good lim heifer out of a sim cow in me. Both about 3 to 4 months of age. Bull calf was dead in the morning when I got him but found the heifer staggering a few mornings after. Got to bring her to the vet but she didn't live either, wasn't too hopeful anyway heading off with her.

jack77

ya, do calves every year, tribovax t used

jt65

Miname wrote: »

every year and we still always loose one to it.

did you try Tribovax 10 .

PN14

Do them every year here. Two injections always. Better to have them done for the cost involved.

086111

Old thread i know...
Can you inject a few cattle in the pen with tribovax-t and leave the rest without it?
i was thinking you could but just to see what others say...

smokey-fitz

086111 wrote: »

Old thread i know...
Can you inject a few cattle in the pen with tribovax-t and leave the rest without it?
i was thinking you could but just to see what others say...

Tribovax is a dead vaccine not a live one. Also blackleg is picked up from spours in the soil it's not a disease that passes from animal to animal. So your theory won't work. It's cheap anyway, alot cheaper than a dead animal.

Tomjim

I inject before I let out in Spring and then do second shot in September

Anything over 2 years old wont get Blackleg, is this correct?

nhg

We"ll inject all the calves (all bought in) this week with Tribovax 10 & follow up with the booster.
We inject all weanlings & stores as they arrive into the yard & follow up with the booster - do they need a follow up booster the 2nd & subsequent years if still on the farm? Beef finishing system.

Calves will get allsure mineral bolus next month when giving blackleg booster & then all stock will get allsure mineral bolus when housing.

Kiltris

If you choose not to give the 2nd shot then you may as well not bother doing the first one either, the one shot isn't working, your just lucky enough to be getting away with it.

Both shots need to be given 4-6wks apart in order to stimulate an immune response to the clostridial disease's. Right by right they should be given 4wks apart in order to produce the most amount of anti-bodies. Your stock are not fully protected until the 2nd shot is given.

Tomjim

Kiltris wrote: »

If you choose not to give the 2nd shot then you may as well not bother doing the first one either, the one shot isn't working, your just lucky enough to be getting away with it.

Both shots need to be given 4-6wks apart in order to stimulate an immune response to the clostridial disease's. Right by right they should be given 4wks apart in order to produce the most amount of anti-bodies. Your stock are not fully protected until the 2nd shot is given.

and if this is done properly in year 1, is there a need to inject in year 2

Kiltris

Tomjim wrote: »

and if this is done properly in year 1, is there a need to inject in year 2

Yes. Antibody levels will drop 12-14months after your 2nd shot is given, so you will have to give the booster shot as recommended. I know so many people don't do it and tbh I can't understand why, it's relatively cheap and the loss of one 1-2yr old animal would vaccinate alot of cattle.

Tomjim

Kiltris wrote: »

Yes. Antibody levels will drop 12-14months after your 2nd shot is given, so you will have to give the booster shot as recommended. I know so many people don't do it and tbh I can't understand why, it's relatively cheap and the loss of one 1-2yr old animal would vaccinate alot of cattle.

Thanks so will 1 shot in the second year be sufficient or would you need a second shot after 6 weeks.

Once Year 2 is complete is there a need to inject in year 3

Kiltris

Tomjim wrote: »

Thanks so will 1 shot in the second year be sufficient or would you need a second shot after 6 weeks.

Once Year 2 is complete is there a need to inject in year 3

Once you give your initial 2 shots 4-6wks apart then 1 annual shot will last for 12months. If you wish to cover your stock from clostridial disease hen they will need an annual booster shot.

And just remember Covexin 10 & Tribovax 10 cover 10 clostridial disease's, Tribovax T only covers 6.

Bass Reeves

There used to be another Clostridial vaccine called Miloxin I think it was spelled. It was much cheaper than Covexin or Tribovax it was the same as Covexin/Tribovax 10. It came in a 100 mls bottle only and it was 2cc/animal twice. Have not being able to get it in about 4-5 years anyone know what it was withdrawn from Ireland. My understanding is that it is still available elsewhere. If I remember it worked out about 40-50% of the price. You had to ask a vet to get it for you as it was never in the fridge with the other vaccines

J.O. Farmer

Kiltris wrote: »

If you choose not to give the 2nd shot then you may as well not bother doing the first one either, the one shot isn't working, your just lucky enough to be getting away with it.

Both shots need to be given 4-6wks apart in order to stimulate an immune response to the clostridial disease's. Right by right they should be given 4wks apart in order to produce the most amount of anti-bodies. Your stock are not fully protected until the 2nd shot is given.

The first shot will generate a slow immune response at a low level. the second shot generates a full immune response (faster and more antibodies).
I don't know if you can quite say the first shot isn't working. It's doing something just maybe not enough.
As a matter of interest have there been any studies done to compare the liklihood of animals contracting a disease after 1 shot v 2 shots. I know there's probably lots of data showing antibody production but I think it would be interesting to see the epidemiological data if there is any. That may well support the assertion that 1 shot is a waste of time and in effect it does nothing

MayoAreMagic

Kiltris wrote: »

If you choose not to give the 2nd shot then you may as well not bother doing the first one either, the one shot isn't working, your just lucky enough to be getting away with it.

Both shots need to be given 4-6wks apart in order to stimulate an immune response to the clostridial disease's. Right by right they should be given 4wks apart in order to produce the most amount of anti-bodies. Your stock are not fully protected until the 2nd shot is given.

To be honest that isnt true. The 2nd shot speeds up and improves the immune response. There is still a response from 1 injection, just not as strong. I have been using one shot on my lambs for the last 5 years and haven't lost a single one. I would always lose one or two if I didn't vaccinate. It's not luck.

greysides

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To be honest that isnt true. The 2nd shot speeds up and improves the immune response. There is still a response from 1 injection, just not as strong. I have been using one shot on my lambs for the last 5 years and haven't lost a single one. I would always lose one or two if I didn't vaccinate. It's not luck.

There is only a small response from the first injection, it's main purpose is to pave the way for a strong, protective response from the second injection.

Maybe it is sufficient but the people who developed the vaccine aren't going to put their reputations on it and they are the only ones likely to have done research on the matter.

MayoAreMagic

greysides wrote: »

There is only a small response from the first injection, it's main purpose is to pave the way for a strong, protective response from the second injection.

Maybe it is sufficient but the people who developed the vaccine aren't going to put their reputations on it and they are the only ones likely to have done research on the matter.

Absolutely.
But the point was made that there was no response at all and that it was basically all about the second injection, with any results being purely down to luck. This is what I was responding to.

Kiltris

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To be honest that isnt true. The 2nd shot speeds up and improves the immune response. There is still a response from 1 injection, just not as strong. I have been using one shot on my lambs for the last 5 years and haven't lost a single one. I would always lose one or two if I didn't vaccinate. It's not luck.

The 1st shot does stimulate an immune response, but if it's not boosted by 6wks later then the antibodies will fade, thus leaving your stock unprotected. I asked this very question at an MSD meeting last year and that was the explanation that Catherine O Leary the MSD vet gave.

MayoAreMagic

Again, no they arent unprotected. They have less effective protection

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Again, no they arent unprotected. They have less effective protection

So they are not fully protected which means if one animal dies not only have you lost the value of the animal you have wasted your time buying and injecting the once.

The chance of blackleg taking an animal is still there...

patsy_mccabe

Am I right in saying there is no need to inject any thing over 2 years old for Blackleg?

dryan

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Am I right in saying there is no need to inject any thing over 2 years old for Blackleg?

I wouldnt believe that theory...
We never lost an animal to black leg up until 2 Years ago i lost a 30 month old bullock 3 days before he was due to go to factory.
Noticed him a bit slow in himself the previous evening but he was feeding. Next morning he was down. Had the vet with him a few hours before he died and he was 100% sure it was down to Black Leg.

J.O. Farmer

dryan wrote: »

I wouldnt believe that theory...
We never lost an animal to black leg up until 2 Years ago i lost a 30 month old bullock 3 days before he was due to go to factory.
Noticed him a bit slow in himself the previous evening but he was feeding. Next morning he was down. Had the vet with him a few hours before he died and he was 100% sure it was down to Black Leg.

That's the exception that proves the rule. It tends to be younger fast growing cattle that get black leg but there's always the exception.

Lady lou

Lost a weanling here to blackleg yesterday. It was one of the best animals in the place. Everything is now vaccinated for it.

roosky

C4d78 wrote:

Just the one injection here always too. They seem to do ok without the second. Is it recommended in all cases to do a follow up??

Giving 1 shot only provides 6 weeks cover the second shot will give the cover for a year so ya its recomended and a lot more cost and time effective than just the 1st shot

greysides

roosky wrote: »

Giving 1 shot only provides 6 weeks cover the second shot will give the cover for a year so ya its recomended and a lot more cost and time effective than just the 1st shot

In general, the first injection of a primary course is really only to prepare the immune system to respond to the second which generates virtually all the immunity. Most vaccines recommend a period of two weeks after the second injection, which allows the time for the vaccine to take effect, before exposing the animals to risk.

Bullocks

greysides wrote: »

In general, the first injection of a primary course is really only to prepare the immune system to respond to the second which generates virtually all the immunity. Most vaccines recommend a period of two weeks after the second injection, which allows the time for the vaccine to take effect, before exposing the animals to risk.

I'd love you to explain that to my old man ! He is in no doubt that the second shot is purely a money racket to make you buy more .

J.O. Farmer

Bullocks wrote: »

I'd love you to explain that to my old man ! He is in no doubt that the second shot is purely a money racket to make you buy more .

The second shot is a controlled exposure to the bacteria resulting in a full immune response.
Exposure from the environment would also have the same effect as the second shot if full blown disease doesn't develop first.
It would be an interesting study to see how likely that is to happen when the first shot is administered. Unfortunately I don't think that study has been done as there's no benefit to the companies.
No doubt the second shot would be a more effective and certain way of getting full immunity just be interesting to see the figures. I really don't know an there are a lot of variables too.
The thing is the vaccine is really quite cheap so even a 1% increase in protection would probably justify the extra cost compared to the cost of losing an animal.