The fear that my depression / anxiety is natural selection

whirlpool

I'm sure that most of us are aware of / have experienced a seemingly-endless amount of distressing feelings and thoughts when going through a period of depression or anxiety.

When I'm going through one of those periods, every now and then I get this horrible feeling that my feeling of not wanting to continue is simply nature's way of weeding out defective human beings. i.e. that if I'm depressed, there is something naturally wrong with me, and that the future of the species will be better off without these defects, and therefore nature is encouraging me to end my life. i.e. what I believe is basically natural selection.

I'm not suicidal, I don't want to kill myself and I 110% believe - no, in fact I know - that there is a much better alternative for absolutely everybody, no matter how horrible they feel at any given moment. And if you are currently having bad thoughts yourself, take a look here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057178293

But I am very curious to know if anybody has ever had this thought or feeling before, and if you can offer any advice to getting over it, as it tends to keep coming back. And as natural selection is very much a real thing, I find it difficult to argue against it. But I mean look at the world we live in - much of it is completely unnatural these days anyway.

However, it's like a slight niggling pain - I am obviously not going to give into it, but I would like to take steps to get rid of it.

Zed Bank

Thats not how natural selection works OP.

whirlpool

Zed Bank wrote: »

Thats not how natural selection works OP.

Can you compare my explanation of it with the actual explanation of it?

Vito Corleone

Yes, I can relate somewhat. I am diagnosed with depression and have had similar thoughts before. Not that it matters either way, whether it's true or not makes no real difference.

beks101

What you have to remember is that each time you come to this 'conclusion' you're in a depressed mindset, which by its very nature will breed negativity, low self-worth and rumination in you. These are key symptoms of depression so I'm not surprised you're experiencing this.

It's hard to advise on how to get rid of them, though I'd imagine tackling the depression would significantly reduce the tendency to ruminate, over-analyse and think negatively - and therefore the frequency of these thoughts.

I guess OP, you need to remember that we are not robots bereft of emotions and it's part of the human condition to think and feel both positively and negatively - and if your own thought-pattern in troubling you, it's your responsibility to yourself to figure out how to change it. There's lots of help available via both the self-help and professional help routes.

And also, we're not just animals either, regardless of our biology or evolution or 'natural selection' or whatever. Looking at yourself through the prism of biology is to ignore your own personal history and unique qualities and self awareness and adaptability to the world around you. Feeling depressed isn't a 'weakness' - it's part of the human condition - and IME - an opportunity for growth and greater strength.

Turtwig

Natural selection doesn't work the way you think it does. Think about what you're saying an apply it to common diseases like cystic fibrosis. If nature was improving humans, why would it create sickle cell anemia or CF. The simplified answer is the CF gene does, or once did, exist as the advantage, or part of one, towards reproduction. Drinking contaminated water likely gave past humans cholera. The gene that carries CF carries an immunity to cholera. A larger proportion of humans in cholera zones would carry the CF genes as those that didn't would likely be wiped out. Some of those carrying a particular proportion of the CF genes would have the condition referred to as cystic fibrosis. Nature's attempt at weeding out of cholera isn't really carrying human beings best interests is it? So, please don't ever think of evolution as a process towards perfection. It's a process that consists of trade offs.

Even if natural selection did work with the way you think it does we're highly advanced social creatures. There's no reason why we should look at nature for guidance to everything. You deserve the highest quality of life possible. **** nature.

RossFixxxed

Pretty much ever single animal you see around you, and plant is artificially selected, certainly all the domesticated ones.

Secondly people with mild depression/ anxiety often evaluate situations more critically, more accurately so within a tribe that could be very useful. Natural selection would favour a group that can assess situations well, can react to things quickly (me with ADHD), someone who will flight and not fight and survive etc. FITTEST does not mean the biggest/strongest/smartest but the most fit for survival in a situation. My reckless abandon will get me killed in circumstances, but out hunting with my tribe it could be very useful. My colour blindness allows me to see things that should be camoflagued well to others with 'normal' vision.

Obliq

RossFixxxed wrote: »

Secondly people with mild depression/ anxiety often evaluate situations more critically, more accurately so within a tribe that could be very useful.

Totally agree with this. I've been up and down with depression through my teens, twenties and some of my thirties too (forties seem ok so far!) and I find it useful now to be able to understand others who are in a negative place in themselves.

Without people having gone through the mill and gained some insights about the traps and pitfalls of depression and thinking negatively, there'd be nobody able to relate to people who do get depressed from time to time. In fact, without awareness of emotional ups and downs, how could we relate to each other at all?! There would be no empathy.

santana75

whirlpool wrote: »

When I'm going through one of those periods, every now and then I get this horrible feeling that my feeling of not wanting to continue is simply nature's way of weeding out defective human beings. i.e. that if I'm depressed, there is something naturally wrong with me, and that the future of the species will be better off without these defects, and therefore nature is encouraging me to end my life. i.e. what I believe is basically natural selection.

OP surely you can take a step back and see that this is distorted logic and thinking at work and thats whats driving how you feel about yourself and how you see the world. Your life is what you make of it or to be more precise, your thoughts are what make your life. I think people with depression just dont have the awareness to see or to catch their distorted thinking when its at work. Theres no natural selection at work here, only negative and distorted thinking. Instead of thinking theres something inherently wrong with you Why not approach things from a different angle? That you can change how you feel by changing how you think and interpret the world and yourself.

Obliq

santana75 wrote: »

I think people with depression just dont have the awareness to see or to catch their distorted thinking when its at work..................That you can change how you feel by changing how you think and interpret the world and yourself.

That's interesting, and accurate in my opinion. Catching yourself out in your negativity is the best route out of depression that I've found.

While down in the depths of feeling so horrible about yourself, it's very difficult to see yourself from a different point of view and to know that the negativity isn't justified. Actually, it even feels realistic and even pragmatic, to be looking at yourself in that way. But intellectually, even if you don't start feeling any different, it helps to lever yourself out of that kind of thinking to just be aware that it's probably a distorted view.

Catching yourself in the act of taking a stick and beating yourself with it, if you will. Slowly but surely you'll be less inclined to pick up that stick.

santana75

Obliq wrote: »

While down in the depths of feeling so horrible about yourself, it's very difficult to see yourself from a different point of view and to know that the negativity isn't justified. Actually, it even feels realistic and even pragmatic, to be looking at yourself in that way. But intellectually, even if you don't start feeling any different, it helps to lever yourself out of that kind of thinking to just be aware that it's probably a distorted view.

Absolutley, but you can train yourself to turn that around and noticing when you're beating yourself up is crucial. I know its a cliche but self acceptance and developing an inner nurturing voice are massively important. Depression just cant exist in the presence of self love.
Dr kelly Flanaghans blog is a brilliant tool in developing self acceptance. I defy anybody to read his posts and to not feel great.

http://drkellyflanagan.com/

whirlpool

I love these replies. Thanks a million.

I suppose where I was coming from was that I believe that our species has simply grown and evolved to be able to outsmart natural selection, and that's why we are able to be smart enough to get rid of the negative feelings - but surely those negative feelings are naturally there in the first place for a reason? i.e. the question is it natural selection?

Jernal, your post about CF was really interesting and made me view things differently, and RossFixxxed, your post the same.

RossFixxxed

I would strongly recommend watching the OLD and NEW series of Cosmos! It sounds weird but it really is theraputic and just wonderful. It may even answer some of your questions on the scientific and spiritual sides.

Here's an analogy: you are seeing yourself as having to be a bit of everything. You should be a full band of musicians. But we evolved in groups, packs of nomads who banded together. Look at the Beatles. You can't be all of them, you fit into a group of different personality types. Alone the Beatles were, well, pants. Alone you're singing Rupert and the Frog song, or some inane hippy idealism. With others... well you fit and meld in, and become something better.

Natural selection has been influenced MASSIVELY by humans, but we are FAR from above or beyond it. The dinosaurs ruled for hundreds of millions of years, with power, strength and absolute dominance. They're not doing so well lately! Our intelligence lets us change and adapt these things, but we aren't ALL THAT either!

OzzieD

Hi

Nature is a natural healer if you learn to reconnect with it , we are all 5 senses , smell ,touch, hearing, seeing ,tasting, yet we listen to only what is said to us by our minds and it completely takes over and dictates our lives. Its crazy . Find a tranquil place somewhere in a park, where you can only hear nature around you, no cars etc, sit quietly close your eyes feel and listen to the wind and birds whistling, stop yourself being absorbed by your thoughts and listening to that annoying little pessimist in your head and feel and tune into your surroundings.