Fingal Councillors vote against Lord Mayor Plan

martinn123

Have to admit, this was not on my news radar.

The plan as I understand it was a proposal, to allow Dublin residents to have a vote on a Lord Mayor for Dublin city and County

The proposal required acceptance by the 4 Councils

Fingal Co have today rejected the proposal, and as it required acceptance by all 4 Councils it is now dead in the water

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-mayor-plans-hit-dead-end-as-fingal-votes-against-626571.html

Plans for a directly elected mayor for Dublin failed today as Councillors in Fingal overwhelmingly rejected the proposal.
Sixteen councillors voted against the proposal while six voted in favour, with two abstentions.
Members of South Dublin county council are poised to vote in favour of the move at a meeting in Tallaght this evening.
However, that and the result of a meeting of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown council are now redundant as the Fingal vote means the proposal can not now go ahead.

As this was a proposal, to let the matter proceed to a vote, and not a decision on the proposal, should Fingal Co have supported the motion, and let the Citizens decide for themselves

Birdie Num Num

martinn123 wrote: »

The plan as I understand it was a proposal, to allow Dublin residents to have a vote on a Lord Mayor for Dublin city and County

Just a small thing. We already have a Lord Mayor. It was a vote for a Mayor of Dublin.

P_1

Strikes me as our good councilors being afraid of losing power to the proposed mayoral office. Now the more cynical of us might well wonder if losing the power to make planning decisions is the main power they were afraid of losing. Certainly something to bring up with any of them who come knocking looking for a vote anyway.

expectationlost

i wonder how many people shouting that the people could make up their own minds about this actually read motion/document that was being voted on today.

i only read it last monday a week after it came out

Paulw

It's far from dead in the water.

From reading the proposals and documents, it seem to me that Fingal Co Co did the right thing. The councillors made the right decision, in my view.

The whole proposal lacked information. It lacked a proper structure.

How could it be claimed that councillors would have less power, especially when the new powers of an elected mayor was not specifically documented?

superman28

I am disgusted by vote down by Fingal Councillors for a directly elected Mayor in Dublin. As I live in Fingal, I want to know who exactly voted this down as I intend to write individually to each councillor expressing my outrage.

Every decent capital city in the world has an elected Mayor with real powers to have a positive impact on the City and its people. Yet in Ireland again we have to be special and allow cryonism and gerrymongering win out instead of basic democracy.

I read the spin from the Fingal councillors and it is mainly BS,, what is better for the councillors of Fingal and the People of Fingal are two different things.

Now Phil Hogan TD designed this to make it as hard as possible to pass,, (you know this when the majority of councillors vote in favor of something and it still fails). Even if for some bizzare reason you think that Dublin should not have a directly elected Mayor, you must aggree that it is shambolic that we can not even have the vote to decide. I recommend everyone get out their bic biros and start writing strongly worded letters to their local councillors (not matter where you live in Dublin)..

The Hill Billy

Threads merged.

tHB

martinn123

superman28 wrote: »

I am disgusted by vote down by Fingal Councillors for a directly elected Mayor in Dublin. As I live in Fingal, I want to know who exactly voted this down as I intend to write individually to each councillor expressing my outrage.

Every decent capital city in the world has an elected Mayor with real powers to have a positive impact on the City and its people. Yet in Ireland again we have to be special and allow cryonism and gerrymongering win out instead of basic democracy.

I read the spin from the Fingal councillors and it is mainly BS,, what is better for the councillors of Fingal and the People of Fingal are two different things.

Now Phil Hogan TD designed this to make it as hard as possible to pass,, (you know this when the majority of councillors vote in favor of something and it still fails). Even if for some bizzare reason you think that Dublin should not have a directly elected Mayor, you must aggree that it is shambolic that we can not even have the vote to decide. I recommend everyone get out their bic biros and start writing strongly worded letters to their local councillors (not matter where you live in Dublin)..

The minutes are not on the Web-Site yet, but you can watch a Web-Cast of the meeting here

http://www.fingalcoco.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/132226

catch--22

The 6 who voted for it were 4 Labour (Dunne, McCamley, O’Donovan, and Walsh) and one is an ex-Labour independent (O’Callaghan). The sixth was McGuinness of Fianna Fail.

More details on the Journal.ie piece including quotes from the meeting.

expectationlost

superman28 wrote: »

I am disgusted by vote down by Fingal Councillors for a directly elected Mayor in Dublin. As I live in Fingal, I want to know who exactly voted this down as I intend to write individually to each councillor expressing my outrage.

Every decent capital city in the world has an elected Mayor with real powers to have a positive impact on the City and its people. Yet in Ireland again we have to be special and allow cryonism and gerrymongering win out instead of basic democracy.

I read the spin from the Fingal councillors and it is mainly BS,, what is better for the councillors of Fingal and the People of Fingal are two different things.

Now Phil Hogan TD designed this to make it as hard as possible to pass,, (you know this when the majority of councillors vote in favor of something and it still fails). Even if for some bizzare reason you think that Dublin should not have a directly elected Mayor, you must aggree that it is shambolic that we can not even have the vote to decide. I recommend everyone get out their bic biros and start writing strongly worded letters to their local councillors (not matter where you live in Dublin)..

did you read the document they voted on?

Paulw

An excellent article written on the whole thing - http://www.corr.ie/#/blog/4567078398/Directly-Elected-Mayor-for-Dublin---Fingal-says-No-to-plebiscite/7869424

I wonder how many of the people complaining here actually spoke to their councillors before the vote about the issue. I also wonder how many actually read the proposal that was voted upon. How many attended the public meetings held on the subject?

The Hill Billy

I was just about to post the same link.

Reading this & other articles I think that Big Phil has a lot to answer for by putting forward badly-worded & ambiguous legislation that councillors would have difficulty voting for.

martinn123

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Reading this & other articles I think that Big Phil has a lot to answer for by putting forward badly-worded & ambiguous legislation that councillors would have difficulty voting for.

Only if you are from Fingal.

The other 3 Councils voted in favour.

maybe our lads were the only ones to actually read the Legislation.:D

expectationlost

what extra powers would the councillors not on the Dublin Assembly have and what parts of the budget would they vote on?

here is the proposal document http://www.kierandennison.com/2014/03/proposed-plebiscite-on-office-of.html

expectationlost

Paulw wrote: »

An excellent article written on the whole thing - http://www.corr.ie/#/blog/4567078398/Directly-Elected-Mayor-for-Dublin---Fingal-says-No-to-plebiscite/7869424

I wonder how many of the people complaining here actually spoke to their councillors before the vote about the issue. I also wonder how many actually read the proposal that was voted upon. How many attended the public meetings held on the subject?

He had spoken to many of his constituents and had canvassed around 2,000 houses in the preceding weeks and not one person raised the issue of a DEM for Dublin.

would it be crazy for councillor to inform his constituent of something and ask them what he thinks while he is canvassing?

Paulw

expectationlost wrote: »

would it be crazy for councillor to inform his constituent of something and ask them what he thinks while he is canvassing?

With the number of items that councillors consider and vote on at their meetings, surely the responsibility is with the public? Their current canvassing is geared towards re-election in the coming elections, and not to see what people want from the items he has to vote on between now and then.

Also, the wording was only sent to the mayor two weeks before the vote was due. Not much time in there for them to study the wording, consult with the relevant parties involved, never mind trying to consult the public.

It was very poorly done by Minister Hogan, and I think that Fingal Co. Co. did the correct thing.

expectationlost

they did have public consultation process last year on this

http://www.mayor4dublin.ie/

but the result of it isn't on that website that i can see

the results were within the first report on the lord mayors site http://www.lordmayorofdublin.ie/lordmayor/Files/Amended%20Final%20DEM%20Report%20to%20Minister.pdf

expectationlost

Paulw wrote: »

With the number of items that councillors consider and vote on at their meetings, surely the responsibility is with the public? Their current canvassing is geared towards re-election in the coming elections, and not to see what people want from the items he has to vote on between now and then.

Also, the wording was only sent to the mayor two weeks before the vote was due. Not much time in there for them to study the wording, consult with the relevant parties involved, never mind trying to consult the public.

It was very poorly done by Minister Hogan, and I think that Fingal Co. Co. did the correct thing.

well there was an earlier draft released in december http://www.lordmayordublin.ie/lordmayor/Files/Amended%20Final%20DEM%20Report%20to%20Minister.pdf http://www.lordmayordublin.ie/lordmayor/Main/Home.htm and the councillors have been having special closed meetings about over the last few months, http://www.lordmayorofdublin.ie/lordmayor/Files/Dublin%20City%20Council%20Report%20No%20220%20-%20Colloquium%20on%20Directly%20Elected%20Mayor%20of%20the%20Dublin%20Metropolitan%20Area.pdf they asked the dept of environment for more detail and this recent report just highlighted the uncertainty of what powers the DEM was going to have, which I think suited Dennison.

Carawaystick

I think it's a fine idea to have a directly elected Mayor for Dublin city, but Most of Fingal is in no way a city, and so none of out business...

I'm ambivalent about Swords being included, but if it is so should Leixlip, Bray and possibly Celbridge, Clonee, Dunboyne as they are towns on the edge of the city.

I can't see why Rush, Balbriggan, Skerries or Lusk, let alone Ballyboughal, Balruddery, Oldtown or the Naul should have a say, or be bound to the decisions of a mayor of Dublin City.

I remember at the last census prelim results looking, and Galway city was the only city entirely inside the local authority bounds of it's city.
Limerick is split into Co. Clare, CO. Limerick and Limerick City, Douglas in Cork is mostly in the county, Ferrybank is mostly in Kilkenny.

Was there still to be a city manager/dictator with the elected mayor?

expectationlost

Carawaystick wrote: »

I think it's a fine idea to have a directly elected Mayor for Dublin city, but Most of Fingal is in no way a city, and so none of out business...

I'm ambivalent about Swords being included, but if it is so should Leixlip, Bray and possibly Celbridge, Clonee, Dunboyne as they are towns on the edge of the city.

I can't see why Rush, Balbriggan, Skerries or Lusk, let alone Ballyboughal, Balruddery, Oldtown or the Naul should have a say, or be bound to the decisions of a mayor of Dublin City.

I remember at the last census prelim results looking, and Galway city was the only city entirely inside the local authority bounds of it's city.
Limerick is split into Co. Clare, CO. Limerick and Limerick City, Douglas in Cork is mostly in the county, Ferrybank is mostly in Kilkenny.

we have regional assembly of councilllors thats supposed to cover the greater dublin region, all the surrounding counties

Carawaystick wrote: »

Was there still to be a city manager/dictator with the elected mayor?

I believe this is the option that was being talked about

Option 2 - Directly Elected Mayor with strong executive powers operating with a Cabinet (the members of which could be elected Councillors or from outside politics) chosen by him/her and held to account by a Directly Elected Assembly

Carawaystick

expectationlost wrote: »

I believe this is the option that was being talked about

Option 2 - Directly Elected Mayor with strong executive powers operating with a Cabinet (the members of which could be elected Councillors or from outside politics) chosen by him/her and held to account by a Directly Elected Assembly

But not decided on?
Surely the type of Mayor should have been nailed down before any vote?