2yr old tantrum and public screaming

Leftist

how the hell can you stop a 2 year old from screaming.

he screams to the point that it hurts your ears. over really small things he doesn't get. if we don't get off the train at a stop he feels like getting off, screams. if he wants to throw pebbles at you and you tell him to stop, screams.
5am in the morning and screaming the house down because we don't put on the telly

it's got the point that we almost had a public confrontation with some woman on the train at the weekend because she kept throwing us filthy looks and muttering obscenities.

Sleephead

Bad Behaviour needs a consequence.

Remove or deny him something he likes when these tantrums occur. Introduce quiet time or a "naughty step" or similar.

Its really hard to discipline like this but will pay dividends long term.

Its a first step anyway!

tony1980

How far past two is he?

Our fella tries this at times in public. The last time he tried it was in a public shopping centre, he was rolling around on the ground, I calmly sat on the bench and finished my sambo, people could see I wasn't stressed and their reaction was to laugh instead of throwing dirty looks which you should just ignore anyway.

This rarely happens us though as at home, we do sit him on the couch in the other sitting room with the telly off, he is not allowed to get off until he comes out to apologise and give us a hug and kiss. He definitely understands this and it seems to work for the most part but occasionally he tests the boundaries as all two year olds do, the key is to be consistent and patient which I know isn't always easy but you will get there and you will be looking back laughing about this some day

January

Ignore the bad behaviour (and I mean ignore it, don't look at them, don't try to cajole them into stopping etc) and praise the good behaviour (go overboard with the praise if you have to). If it's in public, let people look, let them mutter, if they are parents they will understand, if they are not, feck them cos they'll never understand anyway.

MajorMax

Why were you going to have a public confromtation with a woman who was "Throwing you dirty looks & mouthing obscenities"?

She was obviously, justifiably IMO, not very happy with your child's behaviour and your lack of parenting

Instead of picking fights and taking your frustration out on complete strangers, try setting bounderies and consequences for your child and accept responsibility for their actions. Your child is misbehaving because you allow him/her to act out without fear of retribution.

Sounds to me like the child isn't the only one that needs to grow up and get some social skills

January

MajorMax wrote: »

Why were you going to have a public confromtation with a woman who was "Throwing you dirty looks & mouthing obscenities"?

She was obviously, justifiably IMO, not very happy with your child's behaviour and your lack of parenting

Instead of picking fights and taking your frustration out on complete strangers, try setting bounderies and consequences for your child and accept responsibility for their actions. Your child is misbehaving because you allow him/her to act out without fear of retribution.

Sounds to me like the child isn't the only one that needs to grow up and get some social skills

Children throwing tantrums is not a lack of parenting, especially not at two years old.

If you can't post helpfully and politely then don't post here at all. Take a read of the charter before you try again.

Chattastrophe!

MajorMax wrote: »

Why were you going to have a public confromtation with a woman who was "Throwing you dirty looks & mouthing obscenities"?

She was obviously, justifiably IMO, not very happy with your child's behaviour and your lack of parenting

Instead of picking fights and taking your frustration out on complete strangers, try setting bounderies and consequences for your child and accept responsibility for their actions. Your child is misbehaving because you allow him/her to act out without fear of retribution.

Sounds to me like the child isn't the only one that needs to grow up and get some social skills

That's a load of sh*te.

Kids need to learn, it takes time, and discipline. It would be lovely, of course, if it could happen in one day, but that's generally not the case.

If you're so opposed to sharing public transport with a screaming toddler? Buy a car.

Sleephead

MajorMax wrote: »

Why were you going to have a public confromtation with a woman who was "Throwing you dirty looks & mouthing obscenities"?

She was obviously, justifiably IMO, not very happy with your child's behaviour and your lack of parenting

Instead of picking fights and taking your frustration out on complete strangers, try setting bounderies and consequences for your child and accept responsibility for their actions. Your child is misbehaving because you allow him/her to act out without fear of retribution.

Sounds to me like the child isn't the only one that needs to grow up and get some social skills

Thats extremely harsh. get a dose of reality and come out of your ivory tower.


Kids push boundaries. Everyone needs a bit of help and advice along the way.

How Strange

I also agree with rewarding good behaviour and ignoring the bad. We also put our fella on the sofa to cool off if he gets particularly wound up. We've only had one public meltdown and it was quite stressful but they feed off your anxiety and embarrassment so keeping calm is the most important thing.

Personally I've found it's best to try diffuse the situation as soon as you see a tantrum starting. Try distracting him with something else or start playing a game like jumping or skipping. Anything that makes him forget that he's starting to have a tantrum.

If that doesn't work I then tell him I can't speak to him when he's crying but as soon as he stops I'll talk to him. I repeat this a few times and then when he finally stops I give him a hug and we carry on as normal.

If things get really bad I put him on the sofa to calm down and tell him I can't speak to him while he's screaming.

I only ever ask him to apologise if he hurts someone and then he has to say sorry to that person (me, his dad or his sister) for hurting them and making them feel sad.

Leftist

tony1980 wrote: »

How far past two is he?

Our fella tries this at times in public. The last time he tried it was in a public shopping centre, he was rolling around on the ground, I calmly sat on the bench and finished my sambo, people could see I wasn't stressed and their reaction was to laugh instead of throwing dirty looks which you should just ignore anyway.

This rarely happens us though as at home, we do sit him on the couch in the other sitting room with the telly off, he is not allowed to get off until he comes out to apologise and give us a hug and kiss. He definitely understands this and it seems to work for the most part but occasionally he tests the boundaries as all two year olds do, the key is to be consistent and patient which I know isn't always easy but you will get there and you will be looking back laughing about this some day

he's not two until next month.

tbf to major max there is plenty of people out there that stupid and my personal challenge is finding a way to ignore them, in public anyway

I can understand people getting bothered by it though, I am bothered by it too. You try to do the right thing by talking to the child, or ignoring the tantrum, but so far I can't find the solution.

fricatus

MajorMax wrote: »

Why were you going to have a public confromtation with a woman who was "Throwing you dirty looks & mouthing obscenities"?

She was obviously, justifiably IMO, not very happy with your child's behaviour and your lack of parenting

Instead of picking fights and taking your frustration out on complete strangers, try setting bounderies and consequences for your child and accept responsibility for their actions. Your child is misbehaving because you allow him/her to act out without fear of retribution.

Sounds to me like the child isn't the only one that needs to grow up and get some social skills

Tarnation, if that's not the highest horse I ever seen around these parts!!! Why, there must be snow on your head pardner!!! :rolleyes:

Hannibal Smith

Sometimes I think you need a bit of give and take and help them explore their independence. So obviously throwing stones and getting off at the wrong train stop are things he has no say in, but maybe take a day. ..or a morning... and ask him what he would like to do and you have to do it. Though maybe you're better off starting with giving him an option out of two things because chances are he'll pick going to the zoo on a lashing rainy day lol.

And definitely praise the good behaviour. It shows them they get attention for good rather than bad.

I hate the tantrums and I hate the looks from other adults. Any adult who has been through it should know better than to chuck filthy looks.

December2012

What I find helps is doing this:

Firstly I tell my 2 year old that I know she's trying to tells something but I cannot hear her if she screams or shouts. I do this all the time - so if she's at home and she shouts or screams asking for milk or a toy or anything the answer from me is the same; smiling and looking into her face I say "I can tell because your mouth is moving that you want to tell me something. Unfortunately I can't hear you when you scream. If you say it in your normal "name" voice, then I can understand you and help you".

And I say that each time she shouts or screams again. She usually realises it's more effective to use her normal voice. And when she does use the normal voice i make a big deal of how much I love her normal voice and I acknowledge what she said by repeating it to her. If her request is appropriate then I get her the milk, etc and I again say that I'm glad she used her normal voice so I could help her.

Also try to limit shouting - if you want somebody in a different room for example go to them instead of shouting in. That way the kid doesn't get mixed messages.

Now there are times when I use another technique if I know she's asking for something I can't or won't give her.

So let's imagine my 2 year old wants to doesn't want to get off the train station ar our stop.

I say (almost matching her energy levels) what she's feeling in short sentences to her and I repeat them.
"You're angry". She might pause.
"You're sad we got off the train" she may nod and she's definitely paying me attention.
"You didnt want to get off the train". She usually says yes and leans in for a cuddle for comfort.
"Because you love going on the train"
Each time I am matching her energy levels - not throwing a tantrum and not giving out.

It makes her feel less frustrated by the fact she had to do something she didn't want.

It also makes her feel understood and that she has expressed herself. Her feelings are valid and I haven't made her feel stupid or wrong or unimportant by straight away saying that she's wrong.

We are also off the train.

Instead of her being annoyed at me and more likely to have another tantrum she feels calmer and yet still knows I'm the boss.

At this point my girl is usually calm and no longer bothered by the train. If she is I say something like "I know, I like the train too. I liked when we went fast / saw sheep / saw the beach. We will go on the train on another day".

Same thing applies to biscuits, cartoons, toys, etc.

You'll feel like an eejit the first few times but it really works as a method.

Look up the Happiest Toddler on the Block by Harvey Karp.

tony1980

Myself and the Missus get some laugh off each other depending on who is the one trying to speak calmly to him letting him know to use his Name voice so we can understand him. You can see the frustration and the anger welling up and you know any second that nice soft calm voice she is using, could turn into ahhh fu*k this, you deal with em!!...:D

tony1980

How Strange wrote: »

I also agree with rewarding good behaviour and ignoring the bad. We also put our fella on the sofa to cool off if he gets particularly wound up. We've only had one public meltdown and it was quite stressful but they feed off your anxiety and embarrassment so keeping calm is the most important thing.

Personally I've found it's best to try diffuse the situation as soon as you see a tantrum starting. Try distracting him with something else or start playing a game like jumping or skipping. Anything that makes him forget that he's starting to have a tantrum.

If that doesn't work I then tell him I can't speak to him when he's crying but as soon as he stops I'll talk to him. I repeat this a few times and then when he finally stops I give him a hug and we carry on as normal.

If things get really bad I put him on the sofa to calm down and tell him I can't speak to him while he's screaming.

I only ever ask him to apologise if he hurts someone and then he has to say sorry to that person (me, his dad or his sister) for hurting them and making them feel sad.

The distraction is definitely a great idea, tends to work most of the time especially if you can spot a tantrum brewing and you catch it before it is too late!

December2012

Oh yeah and the main thing - ignore the tutters and the huffers!

Goin around as if they never had a tantrum!

Leftist

December2012 wrote: »

What I find helps is doing this:

Firstly I tell my 2 year old that I know she's trying to tells something but I cannot hear her if she screams or shouts. I do this all the time - so if she's at home and she shouts or screams asking for milk or a toy or anything the answer from me is the same; smiling and looking into her face I say "I can tell because your mouth is moving that you want to tell me something. Unfortunately I can't hear you when you scream. If you say it in your normal "name" voice, then I can understand you and help you".

And I say that each time she shouts or screams again. She usually realises it's more effective to use her normal voice. And when she does use the normal voice i make a big deal of how much I love her normal voice and I acknowledge what she said by repeating it to her. If her request is appropriate then I get her the milk, etc and I again say that I'm glad she used her normal voice so I could help her.

Also try to limit shouting - if you want somebody in a different room for example go to them instead of shouting in. That way the kid doesn't get mixed messages.

Now there are times when I use another technique if I know she's asking for something I can't or won't give her.

So let's imagine my 2 year old wants to doesn't want to get off the train station ar our stop.

I say (almost matching her energy levels) what she's feeling in short sentences to her and I repeat them.
"You're angry". She might pause.
"You're sad we got off the train" she may nod and she's definitely paying me attention.
"You didnt want to get off the train". She usually says yes and leans in for a cuddle for comfort.
"Because you love going on the train"
Each time I am matching her energy levels - not throwing a tantrum and not giving out.

It makes her feel less frustrated by the fact she had to do something she didn't want.

It also makes her feel understood and that she has expressed herself. Her feelings are valid and I haven't made her feel stupid or wrong or unimportant by straight away saying that she's wrong.

We are also off the train.

Instead of her being annoyed at me and more likely to have another tantrum she feels calmer and yet still knows I'm the boss.

At this point my girl is usually calm and no longer bothered by the train. If she is I say something like "I know, I like the train too. I liked when we went fast / saw sheep / saw the beach. We will go on the train on another day".

Same thing applies to biscuits, cartoons, toys, etc.

You'll feel like an eejit the first few times but it really works as a method.

Look up the Happiest Toddler on the Block by Harvey Karp.

that's the approach his mam takes.

I am trying it and agree with most of you are saying about highlighting the positives and good behavior. Maybe it needs more time.

PippaChic

MajorMax wrote: »

Why were you going to have a public confromtation with a woman who was "Throwing you dirty looks & mouthing obscenities"?

She was obviously, justifiably IMO, not very happy with your child's behaviour and your lack of parenting

Instead of picking fights and taking your frustration out on complete strangers, try setting bounderies and consequences for your child and accept responsibility for their actions. Your child is misbehaving because you allow him/her to act out without fear of retribution.

Sounds to me like the child isn't the only one that needs to grow up and get some social skills

I think you realise your response was harsh, anybody can see the OP wasn't going to put out the fists to this stranger! If a screaming child really bothers you, why can't you just sit back and be glad you're not the poor parent that has to deal with it?

OP- The advice given to you has been brilliant, can I just add that when my toddlers started screaming, whispering into their ear worked - sometimes.

December2012

Leftist wrote: »

that's the approach his mam takes.

I am trying it and agree with most of you are saying about highlighting the positives and good behavior. Maybe it needs more time.

Consistency is key. My kids have tantrums more with my husband because he reverts back to the "give in method".

Sittingpretty

I think you've gotten some very good advice here so I won't add to that.

But, I will say, it does get better, and easier and they do eventually grow away from the public tantrums when dealt with consistently.

To the person pontificating on this thread, ignore them. Either they don't have children or if they do they don't do the lion's share of the parenting.
Because anyone who is a parent of a toddler will inevitably have been there at one point and will understand your frustration

mohawk

December2012 wrote: »

Consistency is key. My kids have tantrums more with my husband because he reverts back to the "give in method".

Agree with this totally. Giving in is the worst thing you can ever do.

Once they realise tantrums won't work and that you empathise with them then the tantrums will stop....mostly.

I tell my son what stop we are getting off at before we get on the LUAS. Then I ask him to tell me when we are there. It gives him a sense of control of the situation.

vitani

December2012 wrote: »

Consistency is key. My kids have tantrums more with my husband because he reverts back to the "give in method".

This. I react differently to tantrums depending on the reason behind them - like, for example, if she's tantrumming because she's tired, I'm likely to be quite sympathetic and will try to soothe her. If she's tantrumming because she wants something she can't have, I'll distract her. If it's because she's angry at me because I told her to stop doing something, I'll ignore her.

The one constant is that I never give in. She knows that tantrums don't get her what she wants, and as a result, they're rare enough.

pwurple

Never give in is right. Toddlers brains react to this like gambling addiction. One tiny pay-out ages ago and all the effort is justified.

At two years of age you should still be able to physically pick him up and take him out of the situation if its in public.

Prevention is better than cure they say! Distraction as mentioned earlier is great if the reason is boredom. Carry a little box of crayons and paper in your bag. Or sing a song, play a clapping game, whatever works.

Watch for grouchy cues too. Mine becomes ratty when she is hungry (deploy snack!), or tired at around 4pm (give her the comfort blanket and let her sit down).

mdwexford

January wrote: »

Ignore the bad behaviour (and I mean ignore it, don't look at them, don't try to cajole them into stopping etc) and praise the good behaviour (go overboard with the praise if you have to). If it's in public, let people look, let them mutter, if they are parents they will understand, if they are not, feck them cos they'll never understand anyway.

Ah this old chestnut, so people who don't have children aren't allowed to have an opinion because of course they wouldn't understand. What nonsense.

vitani

mdwexford wrote: »

Ah this old chestnut, so people who don't have children aren't allowed to have an opinion because of course they wouldn't understand. What nonsense.

Everyone's allowed an opinion but someone tutting and rolling their eyes at a 2 year old having a tantrum clearly doesn't understand. It's very likely that they've never been a parent to a toddler, or else they'd be more understanding of what is perfectly normal behaviour for a 2 year old.

January

mdwexford wrote: »

Ah this old chestnut, so people who don't have children aren't allowed to have an opinion because of course they wouldn't understand. What nonsense.

Exactly what vitani said.

dublinlady

Public tantrums are sooo stressful! It's taken me so much effort to appear chilled out - but that's what I do! Just say ok we aren't leaving / going to bookstore / going to see the doggies outside etc until you calm down and get in buggy etc - a sort of bribe but really just of the perks she was going to do anyway! At home we do the same as others and out her in other room even if kicking and screaming and tell her can't understand her when she's shouting and screaming but when she calms down we are in the kitchen and ready to talk. If she doesn't wander back thru herself, she usually does after a few mins, we go back in and offer a distraction, we never give in but sometimes just say ok are u finished now will you go and put that in the bin for me? Etc just to distract her cos sometimes she gets a but carried away with herself! Loves the drama!

As for other comments - I don't think you have to have had kids to have an opinion but you have to have cared - actually not all people who have kids care - and many people who don't have kids do! But to say children's misbehavior is always a representation of poor parenting is just pure ignorance - and that goes for parents or otherwise!

mdwexford

vitani wrote: »

Everyone's allowed an opinion but someone tutting and rolling their eyes at a 2 year old having a tantrum clearly doesn't understand. It's very likely that they've never been a parent to a toddler, or else they'd be more understanding of what is perfectly normal behaviour for a 2 year old.

That person could be having a bad day and whether you have kids or not a screaming child is annoying either way.

Just because my toddler screamed before means I should be happy to listen other peoples screaming kids all the time, no way.

It's also not normal for a child to be throwing a tantrum in public regularly or there are some issues to be addressed.

How Strange

I find I don't hear crying babies anymore and I take very little notice of toddlers having tantrums. You kind of become desensitized to it all when you have your own.

Leftist

agreed with How Strange, you don't seem to notice them anymore when you experience it. Or at least you know it's not a matter of simply opening dialogue with a 2 year old or what else, slapping or shouting at them in public?

i think the fact that someone thinks something is 'not normal' about a 2 year old having a tantrum, shows an ignorance borne from inexperience. That isn't a crime. I hated it (screaming kids) before I had one to deal with. But groaning and muttering obscenities, or repeatedly firing off filthy looks, or even suggesting that it's abnormal, is just, stupid. Sorry but it is. It's really stupid to even suggest you can lecture someone on a task you have never had to deal with.

Neyite

mdwexford wrote: »

That person could be having a bad day and whether you have kids or not a screaming child is annoying either way.

Just because my toddler screamed before means I should be happy to listen other peoples screaming kids all the time, no way.

It's also not normal for a child to be throwing a tantrum in public regularly or there are some issues to be addressed.

No, its not particularly pleasant to hear a tantrum. But far better that its at this age and that parental consistency in dealing with it now means a well behaved 6 year old in years to come. But then, I dont get a bit embarassed by a public tantrum or what other people think. My focus is rearing my child.

If I see a parent dealing with a tantrumming child, I give them a smile and a wink. Solidarity and all that.

mdwexford

Leftist wrote: »

agreed with How Strange, you don't seem to notice them anymore when you experience it. Or at least you know it's not a matter of simply opening dialogue with a 2 year old or what else, slapping or shouting at them in public?

i think the fact that someone thinks something is 'not normal' about a 2 year old having a tantrum, shows an ignorance borne from inexperience. That isn't a crime. I hated it (screaming kids) before I had one to deal with. But groaning and muttering obscenities, or repeatedly firing off filthy looks, or even suggesting that it's abnormal, is just, stupid. Sorry but it is. It's really stupid to even suggest you can lecture someone on a task you have never had to deal with.

It's not normal if it's a regular thing is what I said.

The odd one will happen but if it happens every time you go out then something is going wrong somewhere.

I think it's really stupid to suggest you can't be informed on something because you haven't experienced it first hand.

mordeith

mdwexford wrote: »

I think it's really stupid to suggest you can't be informed on something because you haven't experienced it first hand.

If it's something that's black and white then that's true. Not when it comes to something like parenting where each child is an individual and can't be lumped in to a generic approach to discipline.

mdwexford

mordeith wrote: »

If it's something that's black and white then that's true. Not when it comes to something like parenting where each child is an individual and can't be lumped in to a generic approach to discipline.

True. Just hate the way non parents opinions are just dismissed at times as if they are idiots.

Sittingpretty

mdwexford wrote: »

True. Just hate the way non parents opinions are just dismissed at times as if they are idiots.

I think that swings both ways though, I have more than one childless friend who only LOVE to pontificate on how one should parent when they've never done it themselves

Neyite

mdwexford wrote: »

It's not normal if it's a regular thing is what I said.

Can you give links of any studies/ articles etc that say regular tantrums from a two-year old is abnormal?

tony1980

mdwexford wrote: »

True. Just hate the way non parents opinions are just dismissed at times as if they are idiots.

It wasn't so long ago that I was a non-parent when I had opinions of parents and kids and for the most part, looking back now, my opinions were a bit off as much as they made sense at the time, now I realise how far off the mark I was. Like it or not, it is a crazy difference when you have kids as I have found out, not to say that everything that non-parents say is wrong, alot of it is common sense but alot of it is, you have to personally experience it to actually understand, it is hard to explain, I know you won't like what I am saying but believe me it is true!

Anyway, we don't really have to contend with non-parents opinions very often, it's the other parents that we have to worry about, maybe not in relation to tantrums but for other things, the ones who's opinions only count, they are right about everything and are very judgemental, they are far worse to deal with than the non-parents.

You are entitled to your opinion as I am, I am not saying I am right, I am just saying to keep an open mind sometimes as it isn't as straight forward as you think it is, sometimes you have to be in the situation to be able to understand it.

vitani

mdwexford wrote: »

That person could be having a bad day and whether you have kids or not a screaming child is annoying either way.

Just because my toddler screamed before means I should be happy to listen other peoples screaming kids all the time, no way.

It's also not normal for a child to be throwing a tantrum in public regularly or there are some issues to be addressed.

Them having a bad day might be a reason for the tutting or mouthing obscenities but it doesn't excuse it.

Personally, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, if I see a child have a public tantrum, my reaction is most likely to be 'been there, done that' and if I can, I give the other parent a sympathetic smile or nod. It doesn't make the screaming less annoying, and I'm certainly not enjoying the sound of it, but I do understand, in a way that some non-parents can't.

Also, there's a reason the phrase 'terrible 2s' was invented. Regular tantrums are common, yes, even in public, because toddlers are extremely self-obsessed little creatures and often don't understand why they can't have everything their own way all the time. It takes time for them to develop other ways to deal with frustration.

mdwexford

Neyite wrote: »

Can you give links of any studies/ articles etc that say regular tantrums from a two-year old is abnormal?

No but I have not encountered any who had regular tantrums. Occasionally sure, but certainly not most of the time they go out in public. The fact that I rarely even see a child throw a tantrum means it's not as common as some people as making out.

Leftist

mdwexford wrote: »

No but I have not encountered any who had regular tantrums. Occasionally sure, but certainly not most of the time they go out in public. The fact that I rarely even see a child throw a tantrum means it's not as common as some people as making out.

are you ever around 2 year olds, regularly?

they don't throw the tantrum non-stop. it can happen once a day. which is enough for my nerves tbh.

as has been mentioned above, it's called the terrible 2s for a reason, it's a psychological developmental stage that is critical for building the ability to deal with disappointment.

to be honest, i've already alluded to being ignorant to these things prior to having to learn and deal with them. I don't blame you for lacking the experience or knowledge. I don't blame you, or anyone for not wanting to listen to a tantrum. I didn't, and I still don't.

but to suggest you know the standards of normality for a two year old and tantrums, contrary to people who have children on this thread, or child care/psychologist and developmental experts is just, well, funny really

it's amazing how some people come to a conclusion and strong opinion on something based on assumptions and gut feelings.