Irish guy in London looking for Whelan's esque place for a night out.

murpha39

Just looking for a place similar to Whelan's in Dublin that has some live music and DJs that play Indie music. London has alot of electronic stuff which isn't really my scene so if anyone knows anywhere good I'd love to hear it. Thanks!

83ste

Bedrock on Friday nights at Borderline - on Manette Street (just off Charing Cross Road).

ballsymchugh

if you want a really cheap place, depending on your age, there's also kings college students union on a saturday night. haven't been there in years, but it'd be the kind of bands that play early on the outlying stages of electric picnic. you could go around saying you liked them before they were famous.
they occasionally have some decent bands on there too.

dd972

murpha39 wrote: »

Just looking for a place similar to Whelan's in Dublin that has some live music and DJs that play Indie music. London has alot of electronic stuff which isn't really my scene so if anyone knows anywhere good I'd love to hear it. Thanks!

Hope it's the music your're yearning for and not the scenesters, posers, bitching and village idiot mentality of Camden St at 3am

djpbarry

murpha39 wrote: »

Just looking for a place similar to Whelan's in Dublin that has some live music and DJs that play Indie music. London has alot of electronic stuff which isn't really my scene so if anyone knows anywhere good I'd love to hear it. Thanks!

Head to Camden. It's probably the closest thing you'll find to Dublin's live music scene. However, a word of warning...

Unfortunately, London really isn't the best place in the world for "small-scale" live music. It's definitely my biggest grievance with the place and the main thing I miss about Dublin. It is so, so easy to stumble across good live music in Dublin, whereas in London, you really need to do your homework and you'll rarely find somewhere that charges less than about £10 at the door.

I spent a good portion of 2013 as part of an acoustic duo trying to make an impact and not only was it really, really difficult to get a spot at a decent venue (everything is run by f**king promoters here who try to fleece everyone - acts, venues, attendees, etc.), most of the gigs we did play were utterly unrewarding. Generally speaking, people don't pay the slightest bit of attention to what's happening on the stage. There were one or two shows we did were people were more interested in the music, but generally speaking, we got used to the audience shouting over us as we played. Not only that, but most of the other acts on the bill would just be doing covers of stuff in the charts. We did a gig near Highbury & Islington Station last November and the act that followed us did a bunch of Justin Beaber covers and actually got a pretty good reception - we haven't bothered gigging since.

Now, granted, I'm talking about quiet-ish gigs here, but even when I'm on the lookout for something to do on a night out, for a city the size of London, I have found it surprisingly difficult to find venues showcasing unsigned bands. The best place I can think of off-hand is the Windmill in Brixton. As you say yourself, electronic music is very much in vogue in London and that's what you'll here in all the trendy spots around Shoreditch, for example.

S.M.B.

Really? I would say that the London live music scene offers plenty of all types of show (as a punter as opposed to a musician looking to gig). It may be a little over saturated and it certainly caters for a lot more niches but I I never had any difficulty finding something to suit my needs.

tibor

djpbarry wrote: »

Unfortunately, London really isn't the best place in the world for "small-scale" live music. It's definitely my biggest grievance with the place and the main thing I miss about Dublin. It is so, so easy to stumble across good live music in Dublin, whereas in London, you really need to do your homework and you'll rarely find somewhere that charges less than about £10 at the door.
...
I have found it surprisingly difficult to find venues showcasing unsigned bands. The best place I can think of off-hand is the Windmill in Brixton. As you say yourself, electronic music is very much in vogue in London and that's what you'll here in all the trendy spots around Shoreditch, for example.

Erp. I guess it hinges on your definition of small-scale, and good, above but, for me, London probably has the best live music scene in the world.

For indie-ish stuff ranging from ~100 capacity up to around the 500 mark(Whelans main venue is around 450) check out the likes of...

White Heat @ Madame Jojos
http://www.whiteheatmayfair.com/

Birthdays, Dalston
http://birthdaysdalston.com/

Hoxton Bar and Grill
http://mamacolive.com/hoxton/

The Sebright Arms, Bethnal Green
http://www.sebrightarms.co.uk/

The Lexington, Kings Cross/Angel
http://www.thelexington.co.uk/

The Old Blue Last, Shoreditch
http://www.theoldbluelast.com/listings/

Power Lunches, Dalston
http://powerlunchesltd.co.uk/

The Waiting Room, Stoke Newington
http://www.waitingroomn16.com/listings/

Dalston Victoria
http://www.thedalstonvic.co.uk/#whats-on

The Troubador, Earls Court
https://troubadour.co.uk/

The Scala, Kings Cross
http://www.scala-london.co.uk/scala/

The Garage, Islington
http://mamacolive.com/thegarage/

Dingwalls, Camden
http://www.dingwalls.com/listings/

New Slang@McClusckys, Kingston
http://www.mccluskys.com/kingston-nights-out/thursdays

ClubNME@Koko, Camden ** Massive venue but this club night has unsigned/independent bands
http://www.koko.uk.com/listings

There is a ridiculous amount of choice, many of them are often free in.
The quality can be hit and miss sometimes but no more so than in Dublin, and I would say the average level is higher. Crowds are a bit, erm, unenthusiastic a lot of the time though.

For decent rundown of what's on and recommendations every week check out London in Stereo;
http://www.londoninstereo.com/recommended-next-week-50/

ballsymchugh

S.M.B. wrote: »

Really? I would say that the London live music scene offers plenty of all types of show (as a punter as opposed to a musician looking to gig). It may be a little over saturated and it certainly caters for a lot more niches but I I never had any difficulty finding something to suit my needs.

i'd agree with djpbarry, it's harder to stumble across something here than in dublin. unless you plan your stumbling a few months in advance

djpbarry

tibor wrote: »

Erp. I guess it hinges on your definition of small-scale, and good, above but, for me, London probably has the best live music scene in the world.

Well, that depends on how you define "best". For me, it's not just about quality, it's about accessibility.

tibor wrote: »

There is a ridiculous amount of choice...

There really isn't and the reason for that is, as you allude to yourself, there isn't much of an appetite for live music in London. People just aren't all that enthused about it.

tibor

djpbarry wrote: »

Well, that depends on how you define "best". For me, it's not just about quality, it's about accessibility.

Accessibility? You'll have to elaborate there.

There's stuff going on every night for almost every type of music.
You want banjo playing yodellers? Curtis Eller in Queens head tonight.
Blues rock your thing? Band of Skulls are at Rough trade East.
Indie? Try Plastic Mermaids @ The waiting room.
Hip Hop? Head to the Coronet for Black Star.
Jazz? Ronnie Scotts or 606 will always have you covered for top drawer stuff.
Feeling Homesick? Dundalk protest punk poet rocker Jinx Lennon is in town too.

There really isn't

I can't think of any objective measure of amount of gigs/events/whatever on that Dublin beats London for. Are you serious?

London is one of the entertainment and cultural capitals of the world. According to the World Cities Culture Forum, as of 2011, London had 349 full time live music venues and 17000 performances annually, trailing only NY and Paris (where a great % more of performances would have been classical music).

http://www.worldcitiescultureforum.com/indicators/number-music-performances-year

But Dublin is better for live music?

and the reason for that is, as you allude to yourself, there isn't much of an appetite for live music in London. People just aren't all that enthused about it.

I was referring to the type of crowd, rather than the lack thereof. There's generally more beard stroking hipster types than you'd get in similar venues at home. Also seems to be less drinking at gigs, especially midweek, which leads to a more reserved atmosphere with people heading off early to catch trains home.

murpha39

just a simple night with good music and a fun atmosphere

S.M.B.

You could add Johnny Foreigner at the borderline to that list. There'd usually be something on at the barfly too.

I don't get this "stumbling upon/accessibility" issue either. With minimal effort I could find a few gigs at different price points to attend most nights of the week apart from Saturday where venues can usually do much better from a club night.

I agree with indifferent crowds being an issue and I stand by my more niche venues/nights point too.

Although it may be possible that over saturation means that a certain type of gig that I usually wouldn't attend is hard to come by.

seachto7

djbbarry seems to give a fairly accurate description of the music scene in London.

One thing I noticed about unsigned bands in England, well, in London anyhow, was that most of them worked really hard on their image, with the music very much secondary.

djpbarry

tibor wrote: »

Accessibility? You'll have to elaborate there.

There's stuff going on every night for almost every type of music.
You want banjo playing yodellers? Curtis Eller in Queens head tonight.
Blues rock your thing? Band of Skulls are at Rough trade East.

I don't think we're on the same wavelength here at all. I just stopped at the first two entries on your list because I've heard of both of them. They're both established acts and I think this is the crux of the issue - the music scene in London is much more formal. As I mentioned above, absolutely everything is run by (dodgy) promoters in this city - you can't just book a venue with a couple of other bands for a show, like you can in Dublin. Hell, some lads I know in Dublin (The Riptide Movement) even managed to hire the Olympia for a night to do an album launch, all by themselves! You'd never be able to do that in London!

tibor wrote: »

I can't think of any objective measure of amount of gigs/events/whatever on that Dublin beats London for. Are you serious?

London is one of the entertainment and cultural capitals of the world. According to the World Cities Culture Forum, as of 2011, London had 349 full time live music venues and 17000 performances annually, trailing only NY and Paris (where a great % more of performances would have been classical music).

http://www.worldcitiescultureforum.com/indicators/number-music-performances-year

But Dublin is better for live music?

Come on. London is several times the size of Dublin - I'd fully expect London to have far more venues. But how does the number of venues compare per head of population? Or, more importantly, the number of venues per number of musicians?

And why are you only counting full-time venues? What about pubs that have sessions, for example? Still counts as live music. Hell, even street performances (something that is illegal almost everywhere in London without a council permit) counts.

BrokenArrows

The Dublin Castle in Camden generally has a good selection to choose from. Not free entry though.

tibor

djpbarry wrote: »

I don't think we're on the same wavelength here at all. I just stopped at the first two entries on your list because I've heard of both of them. They're both established acts and I think this is the crux of the issue - the music scene in London is much more formal. As I mentioned above, absolutely everything is run by (dodgy) promoters in this city - you can't just book a venue with a couple of other bands for a show, like you can in Dublin. Hell, some lads I know in Dublin (The Riptide Movement) even managed to hire the Olympia for a night to do an album launch, all by themselves! You'd never be able to do that in London!

Your argument seems to be about how tough it may be for a band starting out in London to avoid dealing with promoters. How closely related that is to whether it's easy to find somewhere with bands and decent tunes is very much debatable. There's clearly a very different experience for the musician, but this thread was a lad looking to attend somewhere, not play, unless OP can clarify?

Personally, from a musician perspective I've had very positive dealings with a number of London promoters and venues, some of which I listed above.

If you wanted to go the booking the venue route, there are many options here too but most bands prefer a guaranteed fee and less hassle. e.g. Bush Hall in Shepards Bush, really nice place, only a tad smaller than Whelans at 400 capacity, listed for 700 for a Sunday-Thursday but can be got cheaper.

http://www.bushhallmusic.co.uk/hire-the-venue/promoters/

Come on. London is several times the size of Dublin - I'd fully expect London to have far more venues.

Yet you insist there isn't a good choice here, it's not 'accessible', and is poorer than Dublin - venues filled with cover bands of chart hits!?

I've never seen a cover band in any of the 15 venues I thought of in the 5 minutes it took to write my post earlier, but have seen many, many top quality bands of massively diverse genres, and usually for significantly cheaper than their Dublin shows.

I think your opinion here is being skewed by a few negative personal experiences that do not reflect on the live music scene in London on the whole. You can find dickheads anywhere and if you're unfortunate enough to have ran into some here I can only suggest you try not to let it color your opinion of live music in the city in general. There's lots and lots of great stuff out there and some really decent, hard working folks busting their asses to ensure that continues.

And why are you only counting full-time venues? What about pubs that have sessions, for example?

I'm not counting anything, the organisation linked was. I think it's fair to assume they would have used the same criteria for each location. It was just to give an example of the status London enjoys as one of the worlds top music hosts.

harney

On my phone, so I hope the links work. Beside Tottenham Court Road tube station........

http://www.12barclub.com/the_club.html

And

http://intrepidfox.com

Jack B. Badd

The OP asked for info on a night out, not a debate on whether London or Dublin is better for live music. If you want to discuss that, please start a new thread or take it to PM.

Thanks,
Jack.

djpbarry

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

The OP asked for info on a night out, not a debate on whether London or Dublin is better for live music. If you want to discuss that, please start a new thread or take it to PM.

Thanks,
Jack.

Sorry, it was my first post that initially dragged the thread in that direction.

enda1

May seem an odd place to find live bands, but I've seen live unsigned acts play at launches for example art exhibition launches and niche arty product launches and anniversary celebrations.