Garage sheered off Crank pulley bolt

sutty

Hello all, I am looking for some information on what my rights are here. I dropped my car in to get 4 new tires, timing belts and water-pump replaced and for the car to be given general going over for the NCT due next month.

Today I got a call saying the Crank pulley bolt was cross threaded and they needed me to come in. However I wasn't in the county at the time. When I got back I went to the Garage. It turns out the bold had been sheered off about 2-3 inches into the engine. They are calming the bold head was damaged and they had to force a smaller socket on to try remove the bolt. Then when they did it sheered off. The Garage has said it was due to who ever put the bolt back on at the last belt change, cross-threading it.

I have not gotten the belts done since buying the car second hand 2 years ago. They where due now. So I have no knowledge on what or what not was done to the bolt. The Garage now want me to pay for a replacement engine and the labour to replace it. I was a bit knocked for six and didn't really have time to think about it. Till driving home. (in my work van, the car is undriveable now) What are my rights here, are the Garage at fault for sheering off the bolt? I've done work on bikes and small bits on my own cars before and know well and good not to over torque a bolt or that if you cross-thread a bolt, your going to have issues getting it the full way in without stripping the threads clean in the first place.

The car was driving the past two years without issues on the pulleys/Drive of the engine. Anyone any thoughts. The Garage as a large operation (not going to name and shame) so it is not like its a small backyard operation. So again, if anyone has any past experience of this or knowledge. It be a help.

micraX

Do they not have a set of easy outs or a drill and tap?
Or if it's in quite far in, a shorter bolt?

Stavros Murphy

Sounds a bit convenient blaming the last lad. If it was that tight, wiser heads would have waited for your specific go ahead and appraised you of the possible risks and who would pay for what if it went pear-shaped - before attempting a removal. I don't know what the score is here, but if it was me, and this is just my own view, I would be looking for a hefty contribution to the repair.

I know that in my work, if we eff somthing up, even if it was fifty-fifty, we take a hit. That's just what being reputable means, somtimes you take a hit. Now the question is, how reputable are they? Or how prepared to neck it out? They may just say it is your problem and was unavoidable. I would be huffy at that point tbh, unless they had given me the risks/rewards chat beforehand. Chances are though, they will shrug and say it is your issue, and legally, they may be right..

gctest50

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Sounds a bit convenient blaming the last lad. If it was that tight, wiser heads would have waited for your specific go ahead and appraised you of the possible risks and who would pay for what if it went pear-shaped - before attempting a removal. I don't know what the score is here, but if it was me, and this is just my own view, I would be looking for a hefty contribution to the repair.

I know that in my work, if we eff somthing up, even if it was fifty-fifty, we take a hit. That's just what being reputable means, somtimes you take a hit. Now the question is, how reputable are they? Or how prepared to neck it out? They may just say it is your problem and was unavoidable. I would be huffy at that point tbh, unless they had given me the risks/rewards chat beforehand. Chances are though, they will shrug and say it is your issue, and legally, they may be right..

Can they not drill it out or are they just a poor attempt at fitters?
Unlikely the crank is stripped and they just broke it - drill it dead centre and very carefully beat a spline drive into it

Don't use easy-outs

You need to beat the spline drive in dead square

If that doesn't work - don't try too hard - get a good handful of bits and drill it right out until you are just under the female threads in the crank then you can just wind out what's left with A good long nose pliers

sutty

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I know that in my work, if we eff somthing up, even if it was fifty-fifty, we take a hit. That's just what being reputable means, somtimes you take a hit. Now the question is, how reputable are they? Or how prepared to neck it out? They may just say it is your problem and was unavoidable. I would be huffy at that point tbh, unless they had given me the risks/rewards chat beforehand. Chances are though, they will shrug and say it is your issue, and legally, they may be right..

Thanks for the reply Stavros, I would have thought that they would be responsible for all damaged caused to the car while on their premises? As you said your self, if it was stuck on, they should informed me. Instead the just said it was cross threaded when what they meant was it was after sheering of. I was in no major rush or concern till I got to the garage later that evening and seen the damage. I thought they had just meant the couldn't get the bolt off. I never told them to force it or anything just to see what they could figure out. No one ever mentioned it being at my own risk.

But now they are just shrugging their shoulders saying a replacement engine is needed. I was a bit in shock and it didn't really sink in till I had left the garage. They are currently looking for a replacement engine. But a quoting that if the engine costs €500, fitting and new parts (belts, oil, filter and coolant) willl run up to €1500

sutty

gctest50 wrote: »

Can they not drill it out or are they just a poor attempt at fitters?
Unlikely the crank is stripped and they just broke it - drill it dead centre and very carefully beat a spline drive into it

Don't use easy-outs

You need to beat the spline drive in dead square

If that doesn't work - don't try too hard - get a good handful of bits and drill it right out until you are just under the female threads in the crank then you can just wind out what's left with A good long nose pliers

They said it was too deep in to drill out. The Cars a Alfa 156 1.9JTD. The bolts thread is all on the last inch of the bolt which is where it snapped.

Stavros Murphy

sutty wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Stavros, I would have thought that they would be responsible for all damaged caused to the car while on their premises? As you said your self, if it was stuck on, they should informed me. Instead the just said it was cross threaded when what they meant was it was after sheering of. I was in no major rush or concern till I got to the garage later that evening and seen the damage. I thought they had just meant the couldn't get the bolt off. I never told them to force it or anything just to see what they could figure out. No one ever mentioned it being at my own risk.

But now they are just shrugging their shoulders saying a replacement engine is needed. I was a bit in shock and it didn't really sink in till I had left the garage. They are currently looking for a replacement engine. But a quoting that if the engine costs €500, fitting and new parts (belts, oil, filter and coolant) willl run up to €1500

I'd be saying sorry but that won't fly. As to the lads with the "easy-outs" etc, good luck with that when the crankshaft has sheared off already.

I can understand you're both shocked/peed off OP, I would be too(although peoples ineptitude never ceases to un-amaze me, so...) I would be looking for 50;50 on costs at the least. As for the €1500, no, sorry, not happening. You may need a solicitor. Sadly. Ringing it off is just bad spannering tbh - there's options. Heat, grinder, plasma cutter etc. Just guntering it off with maximum muscle is plain dog-rough.

gctest50

sutty wrote: »

They said it was too deep in to drill out. The Cars a Alfa 156 1.9JTD. The bolts thread is all on the last inch of the bolt which is where it snapped.

Ask to see it - they may have already tried and made a mess of it

Too deep ? You'd drill anything of your tool is long enough

FirstinLastout

The section that has sheared off, did they have that?
Surely it'd be evident wither it was bodged.

Stavros Murphy

Yeah, here, hang on, I'm knackered from work and the brains foggy - it's the bolt that sheared??? New engine??? I thought they'd sheared the crank ffs. Scrap all that ^ - drill the fcuker out and rethread it. New engine? Feck off. My bad. Half asleep tbh. If someone brought a deeply sheared bolt into our workshop for extraction, I'd drill it and then bang in a large helicoil insert - not the end of the world, a sheared bolt. A sheared crankshaft, now that's an issue.

DaveJac

what kind of car is it?

Anyway if they wont drill and tap it, ask them too and you take it to somewhere that will.

Silvera

DaveJac wrote: »

what kind of car is it?

Anyway if they wont drill and tap it, ask them too and you take it to somewhere that will.

I agree. If they wont drill/tap/helicoil the crankshaft take it somewhere that will.

Perhaps you should consult with an Alfa specialist? Surely they might have experience of sorting such problems? One place that I know of is 'TI Autos' Cowper St, D7. 01-8386567 www.tiautos.ie

DaveJac

sorry didnt see it was an Alfa, im used to opels same basic engine is the the vectras ect 1.9 diesel they did give a fair bit of bottom crank pulley trouble id sell a fair get of them ive only ever seen lads break a bolt beceause they were trying to open it the wrong way

Interslice

sutty wrote: »

They said it was too deep in to drill out. The Cars a Alfa 156 1.9JTD. The bolts thread is all on the last inch of the bolt which is where it snapped.

Can you see any evidence of cross threading in the crank or on the extracted bolt? Should be swarf and mangled threads? Very hard to cross thread a damper bolt in the first place. You'd want some serious power to do it.

How much of the bolt is gone/left. Maybe getting one an inch shorter would do the job.

debabyjesus

gctest50 wrote: »

Too deep ? You'd drill anything of your tool is long enough

Giggity