Went to get a tow hitch fitted, now car won't start!

ElWalrus

Hi,

Not sure if this is the right place for this. Just curious on what people's thoughts are on this or if they have had similar experiences.

Basically, a friend of mine wanted to get a tow hitch fitted to his car and took it to a company that specialize in it. When he brought it the car was in perfect working order. Later on that day, he got a call from the garage to say that he should come over and they informed him that will not start. They informed that while they had started on the wiring, that they 'didn't connect the fuses' on the relay they were using.

The car has key-less entry an a push-to-start button. Usually, when you sit into in the dash would light up informing if the key is detected or not. Now the dash is completely blank and unresponsive. The only thing lighting up is the 'door open' light.

Initially, they thought the battery in the key fob or car had died. But the spare key has been tried, jump starting didn't work, fuses have been checked, following troubleshooting in the manual hasn't worked (i.e. holding key against start button, etc.) For all intents and purposes the car is 'bricked'.

The company towed the car to the nearest Toyota garage, but they were stumped too (can't even get the fault codes out of the car) and have recommended it be taken to a Lexus garage (Car is a 2009 Lexus is220d) which is at least 60 miles away.

First, just wondering any theories on what might have happened, i.e. ECU fried, etc.

Secondly, this company are part of a chain, and while the on-site manager is sympathetic and willing to do what he can, the regional manager has taken the position that the owner needs to prove that it was the company that caused this problem before any form of compensation will be payed out (e.g. cost of towing, cost of repairs, etc.) Ostensibly, the car was working when he brought it there, they began some work on the wiring, and now the car is 'bricked'. What recourse, if any, does my friend have? How does he get proof? He's been without his car for 6 days now, and has to organize the towing himself as the tow hitch company won't authorize payment.

Any feedback welcome. Cheers!

(PS sorry for the long post :rolleyes:)

djimi

Speak to a solicitor maybe? If the regional manager is going to be like that then maybe its just best to seek legal advice from the off.

Cee-Jay-Cee

He doesn't need proof. He drove the car there, that is proof. The car will not start since they began the work on the wiring. Your friend needs to tell the regional manager that he is fully liable and that he will pursue him for full costs including a replacement car while his is fixed and no court is going to make your friend prove that the car was faulty before hand.

A solicitors letter will get things moving.

Plug

Could someone throw up wiring diagrams for this car.
Does the engine turn over?

Supergurrier

Did they disconnect the battery before starting work on it ?

Del2005

Plug wrote: »

Could someone throw up wiring diagrams for this car.
Does the engine turn over?

With modern CanBus wiring you need special connections to wire in a trailer socket, or nearly anything electric. I'd say that the place just spliced into the lights and have killed the ECU, or have caused it to crash, due to too high a voltage.

ironclaw

Del2005 wrote: »

With modern CanBus wiring you need special connections to wire in a trailer socket, or nearly anything electric. I'd say that the place just spliced into the lights and have killed the ECU, or have caused it to crash, due to too high a voltage.

Would be my guess alright. Improper grounding, static discharge etc. There is literally a million ways you can kill an ECU if you are a lemon mechanic.

porsche boy

Id reckon they've fryed the ECU, lack of knowledge in auto electrics is a dangerous thing. Regarding the regional manager, the proof is that the car drove in there. It's now up to them to fix it. Further more you have every right to request a replacement car from the company while yours is being repaired. In any dealings maintain the position that this is not your fault and you want the car returned in the same condition ypu gave it to them in. If the regional manager is being too akward then request contact details for the company MD. Good luck, I reckon I know who your talking about!

Stallingrad

Hard to believe that a company that specializes in installing tow bars doesn't know about CanBus and the risks of screwing the electrics up.

ElWalrus

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the responses. Fried ECU seems to make the most sense. As far as them ensuring the battery was disconnected I can't say. The only thing I believe they mentioned was "we didn't have the fuse connected/wired up" implying that they didn't have the trailer wiring hooked up before they tried started the car (seems implausible). They also said that they were using a relay (presumably to bypass the CANBUS or something? Sorry not a mechanic :pac:) Finally, there was scratch marks on the plastic cover near the battery which would suggest that they tried jump starting or using a booster.

My friend is going to have the car towed to the Lexus dealer tonight. I'll keep ye posted. Thanks again.

Bio Mech

ElWalrus wrote: »

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the responses. Fried ECU seems to make the most sense. As far as them ensuring the battery was disconnected I can't say. The only thing I believe they mentioned was "we didn't have the fuse connected/wired up" implying that they didn't have the trailer wiring hooked up before they tried started the car (seems implausible). They also said that they were using a relay (presumably to bypass the CANBUS or something? Sorry not a mechanic :pac:) Finally, there was scratch marks on the plastic cover near the battery which would suggest that they tried jump starting or using a booster.

My friend is going to have the car towed to the Lexus dealer tonight. I'll keep ye posted. Thanks again.

I would make sure the Lexus dealer gets a good, proper auto electrician involved. I have been to too many dealers who just plug a laptop in .... no faults on the ECU therefore no problem.

I went to one Mazda dealer with ABS and DSC lights showing up on the dash. They plugged in the old laptop and no codes showed up. So their position was that there was no fault despite me showing them the lights. They said they would have to escalate it directly to Mazda.

Brought it to a proper electrician. Loose connection leading to an electrical short. Had it found and fixed in an hour.

Stavros Murphy

Del2005 wrote: »

With modern CanBus wiring you need special connections to wire in a trailer socket, or nearly anything electric. I'd say that the place just spliced into the lights and have killed the ECU, or have caused it to crash, due to too high a voltage.

This, it's likely a Canbus network where one wire carries numerous signals, chop in and you're in a world of pain.

ironclaw

Even with the battery disconnected, you could still fry the ECU if you did something really stupid. Can't see why you would need a relay here. Anyway, we are speculating. Would love to hear the overall outcome.

Stavros Murphy

Also a towbar on a Lexus is wrong, just wrong. The car may have decided to refuse to start in protest.

jca

:

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Also a towbar on a Lexus is wrong, just wrong. The car may have decided to refuse to start in protest.

:D

Del2005

ElWalrus wrote: »

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the responses. Fried ECU seems to make the most sense. As far as them ensuring the battery was disconnected I can't say. The only thing I believe they mentioned was "we didn't have the fuse connected/wired up" implying that they didn't have the trailer wiring hooked up before they tried started the car (seems implausible). They also said that they were using a relay (presumably to bypass the CANBUS or something? Sorry not a mechanic :pac:) Finally, there was scratch marks on the plastic cover near the battery which would suggest that they tried jump starting or using a booster.

My friend is going to have the car towed to the Lexus dealer tonight. I'll keep ye posted. Thanks again.

Next time your at the car pull the mats in the boot and carefully remove the plastic panels to see if you can see the wires they used to wire up the socket. If they are spliced onto any other wire they have installed wrong and have killed the ECU.

Stavros Murphy

Del2005 wrote: »

Next time your at the car pull the mats in the boot and carefully remove the plastic panels to see if you can see the wires they used to wire up the socket. If they are spliced onto any other wire they have installed wrong and have killed the ECU.

Is there not a dedicated plug-in wiring harness connection for canbus equipped cars getting a towbar? I thought you needed a specific harness adaptor and the mfr had a plug left ready for one? You're dead right about splicing being a no-no.

CiniO

How can you find out if car is equipped with can-bus or not?

DaveJac

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Is there not a dedicated plug-in wiring harness connection for canbus equipped cars getting a towbar? I thought you needed a specific harness adaptor and the mfr had a plug left ready for one? You're dead right about splicing being a no-no.

I only know the way ford and opel work it but im sure all makes are more or less the same that use can-bus, you can buy a main dealer plug and play wiring kit for a towbar easiest fitting option but the Opel ones are mental money can be 150-200+vat just for the wiring where as a 7 pin socket and the box you need to use with a car with can bus can be bought for 40-50, we have fitted loads of towbars to canbus cars in work with just a normal trailer socket and the bypass relay for canbus cars and never had any trouble

recyclebin

CANbus is usually a two core twisted cable.

A lot of the electronics are protected so it would take a really bad short to fry the ECU. It's more likely that something has been cut or disconnected.

Del2005

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Is there not a dedicated plug-in wiring harness connection for canbus equipped cars getting a towbar? I thought you needed a specific harness adaptor and the mfr had a plug left ready for one? You're dead right about splicing being a no-no.

Yes it is, that's why I want the OP to check for splicing. If the wires are spliced then it's easy to prove that the hitch fitting damaged the car.

Cee-Jay-Cee

ElWalrus wrote: »

Hi guys,

My friend is going to have the car towed to the Lexus dealer tonight. I'll keep ye posted. Thanks again.

Have your friend bill the company that caused the problem.

mullingar

I'd say the IS220 has "Multi-plex" wiring, basically no common ground for the lights and each light is lit by powering up 2 of the wires to the cluster.

A trailer has a standard wiring system WITH a common ground, wire these up without a special relay box that converts multiplex wiring to standard wiring you have all sorts of wires being grounded that were never designed to be grounded.

CanBus is just a data system, it carried NO power.

My 2c

jca

mullingar wrote: »

I'd say the IS220 has "Multi-plex" wiring, basically no common ground for the lights and each light is lit by powering up 2 of the wires to the cluster.

A trailer has a standard wiring system WITH a common ground, wire these up without a special relay box that converts multiplex wiring to standard wiring you have all sorts of wires being grounded that were never designed to be grounded.

CanBus is just a data system, it carried NO power.

My 2c

Oh lord that sounds bad....

ElWalrus

CJC999 wrote: »

Have your friend bill the company that caused the problem.

Hi guys, it got towed to the dealer last night. No news yet.

ElWalrus

mullingar wrote: »

I'd say the IS220 has "Multi-plex" wiring, basically no common ground for the lights and each light is lit by powering up 2 of the wires to the cluster.

A trailer has a standard wiring system WITH a common ground, wire these up without a special relay box that converts multiplex wiring to standard wiring you have all sorts of wires being grounded that were never designed to be grounded.

CanBus is just a data system, it carried NO power.

My 2c

There was a relay box used, I'd imagine it was for the above reason.

R.O.R

Is it possible that one key is dead, and they were trying to start it with both the spare key (working) and the main key (dead)?

We had a few hours of head scratching with an IS220d where one key was dead, but the spare was working. Eventually figured out that it wouldn't start if the dead key was anywhere near the car, but if that was taken way away from the car, and the spare was in the car, it started.

Had a very similar issue with a 5 Series a couple of weeks ago, and same thing worked in the end. Removed the key with the dead battery to a good distance from the car, started it with the spare, then put the dead key back in to the car when it was running.

Once a key battery has gone dead in a car with keyless start, treat that as the gatekeeper and the spare as the keymaster, and keep them as far apart as possible.

CiniO

I had a towbar fitted and wired by very reputable place (towbar manufacturer) to my 09 Civic, and they just soldered each wire from socket directly to lights wires on the car.

Now I start wondering if that is actually adequate for my car?

Del2005

mullingar wrote: »

I'd say the IS220 has "Multi-plex" wiring, basically no common ground for the lights and each light is lit by powering up 2 of the wires to the cluster.

A trailer has a standard wiring system WITH a common ground, wire these up without a special relay box that converts multiplex wiring to standard wiring you have all sorts of wires being grounded that were never designed to be grounded.

CanBus is just a data system, it carried NO power.

My 2c

Data is electrical pulses, once there's a voltage there is power . There is power in a Canbus system but not much which is why splicing into cables, or even fitting the wrong type of bulb, can lead to serious issues.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

I had a towbar fitted and wired by very reputable place (towbar manufacturer) to my 09 Civic, and they just soldered each wire from socket directly to lights wires on the car.

Now I start wondering if that is actually adequate for my car?

Since it hasn't caused any issues yet you may be OK. Did you Google how to fit a towbar to a 09 civic or just call a Honda dealer.

JohnBoy26

CiniO wrote: »

I had a towbar fitted and wired by very reputable place (towbar manufacturer) to my 09 Civic, and they just soldered each wire from socket directly to lights wires on the car.

Now I start wondering if that is actually adequate for my car?

If all is working properly I cant see how it could be inadequate.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

Since it hasn't caused any issues yet you may be OK.

It hasn't caused any issues yet, but I only had it fitted 3 months ago, and towed two trailers since.
I wonder what happens if there is a short circuit on trailer installation or something.

Did you Google how to fit a towbar to a 09 civic or just call a Honda dealer.

I had a look at some civic forums, but opinions vary.
Honda dealer is going to offer ready kit for wiring which costs fortune.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

It hasn't caused any issues yet, but I only had it fitted 3 months ago, and towed two trailers since.
I wonder what happens if there is a short circuit on trailer installation or something.

Once the circuit is wired in it could cause issues. It's not just the trailer lights that can cause issues if the integrity of the wires has been compromised by splicing

CiniO wrote: »

I had a look at some civic forums, but opinions vary.
Honda dealer is going to offer ready kit for wiring which costs fortune.

If the kit has an adapter for the hitch socket it'll be a CanBus system, if it's just plain wires than it won't. An ECU will cost a lot more than the proper kit!

jca

I thought this thread was about a lexus? Hijacked as usual.....

forestgray

jca wrote: »

I thought this thread was about a lexus? Hijacked as usual.....

Op. I fitted a towbar and lights to my is220d.
I first incorrectly installed them directly without an adaptor relay. Everything sorta worked but I did generate an error VSC light on the dash.

I then installed the correct multiplex relay. The light cleared and everything worked perfectly without any lasting damage.

I soldered and heat shrinked all my joints.

I'd say they just blew one of the main high ampage block fuses (40amp ish ones) under the bonnet. I'd check there first.

Good luck and keep notes of everything, times etc

forestgray

Op did you get sorted?

ElWalrus

Hi All,

Sorry I haven't replied sooner. Was out of the country. Here's the update:

After the car was brought to the Lexus dealer, the dealer tried replacing the main ECU but that had no effect. Eventually the mechanic identified the problem as two missing bridge connectors on the wiring harness. The mechanic said your best bet to get them would be a scrap yard as Lexus don't sell these separately.

On hearing this my friend took a chance and rang the original tow bar fitters, and lo and behold, they found the connectors in the garage. They have since been fitted back to the car and its now working again and I believe the fitters will cover costs.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I'll pass along the real moral of the story...don't put a tow bar on a Lexus! :pac:

v240gltse

hi ElWalrus

delighted to hear you got it sorted and hopefully the fitters pick up all of the costs as they should do.

regards