Noisy pump next door

alanc2003

I was wondering has anyone else had issues with noise next door. Basically for the last 18 or months or so I can hear my neighbours water pump every time they turn on a tap. The hum from it is driving me mad. I have been into the neighbour and he told me that he rents from a rental company so I rang them and eventually got someone out. She claims that the noise I hear is normal which is bull, as we didn't have the issue for the previous 5 years! I then got a plumber out and he wrote a report stating that their pump was excessively loud and should be replaced. I then sent this report along with a letter asking for something to be done and 3 weeks later the noise is still as bad as ever. Sorry for the long post but what are my options here?

bbam

Make a complaint to the council that the noise is a nusience ??

Thomas D

Your only real options are diplomacy (seems to be failing) or moving out.

the_syco

Check if the pump can be put elsewhere, for example maybe the attic (if living in a house)?

alanc2003

The problem is the neighbours letting agent, they seem unwilling to do anything and reckon the noise I hear is reasonable yet they have told the neighbour not to use his water after 11 which is madness. They just dont want to pay to have the thing replaced.

unfortunately its an apartment and the pump cannot be moved.

Ray Palmer

Are the houses designed with pumps or was it added later on?

They are noisy one way or the other and when they break they stop working so it would be odd it became damaged and kept working for 18 months.

I would take what your plumber said as worthless, they would say it either way depending on who pays.

mad m

Is the pump near the dividing (jack) wall? Is it the noise or vibration? sometimes you can get rubber feet to fit under these to stop vibration/noise.

Ray Palmer

the_syco wrote: »

Check if the pump can be put elsewhere, for example maybe the attic (if living in a house)?

Very expensive to do that so very unlikely. You would have to re-plumb quite a lot and then get a specialist negative pump. Would you do it for something that hasn't been changed for years and are suddenly getting complaints about?

cgarrad

Buy this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30743-Vibration-Absorber-Mat/dp/B000UQ7CZK/ref=pd_sim_kh_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=1F94YDYQ0ZHD3QAATH3J

Ask them to place it under the pump.

Bring a bottle of wine ;-)

alanc2003

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Are the houses designed with pumps or was it added later on?

They are noisy one way or the other and when they break they stop working so it would be odd it became damaged and kept working for 18 months.

I would take what your plumber said as worthless, they would say it either way depending on who pays.

Its an apartment designed with the pumps. I know they are noisy as we have one ourselves but to be so noisy that I can hear next doors pump is a different story(they cannot hear ours). As i said we never heard anything until about 18 months ago. the neighbour did say that work was done on it back then so there was obviously some fault with it.

The plumber was sent from the management company of the apartments so he woudnt be the one replacing it. He was sent out as an independent party

alanc2003

cgarrad wrote: »

Buy this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30743-Vibration-Absorber-Mat/dp/B000UQ7CZK/ref=pd_sim_kh_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=1F94YDYQ0ZHD3QAATH3J

Ask them to place it under the pump.

Bring a bottle of wine ;-)

Cheers, id buy several of them if i though it would work!

cgarrad

alanc2003 wrote: »

Cheers, id buy several of them if i though it would work!

If you read the amazon reviews it solved the exact problem you have ;-)

Del2005

Contact the Management Agent if you own or your landlord if renting to complain about the noise from next door. They will then deal with the owners to fix the noise issue. Keep at them until you get it resolved, making sure that you quote the house rules about noise.

djimi

Its not unusual to be able to bear your neighbours pump (we can hears our neighbours and Im sure that they can hear ours), but if its sufficiently loud so as to be causing a problem for you, ie preventing you from sleeping or something like that, then it really is up to their landlord to get it sorted.

I know that the PRTB can get involved with issues where landlords are not dealing with issues with their tenant; I wonder if the same would apply here? Or is it up to the management company to deal with internal issues like this?

alanc2003

djimi wrote: »

Its not unusual to be able to bear your neighbours pump (we can hears our neighbours and Im sure that they can hear ours), but if its sufficiently loud so as to be causing a problem for you, ie preventing you from sleeping or something like that, then it really is up to their landlord to get it sorted.

I know that the PRTB can get involved with issues where landlords are not dealing with issues with their tenant; I wonder if the same would apply here? Or is it up to the management company to deal with internal issues like this?

The managemnt company have said its a civil issue now so they cannont get involved. The major issue is that my wife is due in august and we want to turn the spare room into a nursery. I cannot put a baby into that room with the humming going all hours of the day and night. Unfortunetly it is effecting my sleep as once you hear it, its all you can hear. Between 10 and 11.10 last night the pump went on and off about 15 times.

SpaceTime

I assume this is a shower pump?

They can be quite noisy, but they also need to be installed correctly too. If they didn't use the correct rubber mounts and pipes, they will make a huge racket.

Ray Palmer

alanc2003 wrote: »

Its an apartment designed with the pumps. I know they are noisy as we have one ourselves but to be so noisy that I can hear next doors pump is a different story(they cannot hear ours). As i said we never heard anything until about 18 months ago. the neighbour did say that work was done on it back then so there was obviously some fault with it.

The plumber was sent from the management company of the apartments so he woudnt be the one replacing it. He was sent out as an independent party

Go in have a look and see if it is the same pump model. They could have replaced the pump with a cheaper model. I have what was called a "silent pump" which was more expensive by about 50%. It isn't silent but less nosier than a standard model. The matts suggested do help I recommend two

odds_on

I have the exact same problem with my own pump. It sounds like bearings have gone in it. When Ienquired about a new one, the local large providers quoted abot 550 euros for a new one. It was also suggested that I change from "a negative head to a positive head".

Now, I only use the pump when I use the washing machine. Other things take quite a while - the cistern takes about 15 minutes to fill without the pump.

Atticus Jung

I lived in an apartment with a noisy pump which was up against our neighbors wall. At night we used to turn it off, we assumed it must be driving them mental. We could still get water just not very much flow. So it was fine brushing teeth, face washing etc. It wont fix your problem but it might help a little if you suggest your neighbor does this.

Marcusm

If the mgt company is also the freeholder of the block, they will have an obligation to be involved. The apartment lease (999 or 125 years or similar) will, if properly drafted, include a provision requiring that no noise nuisance is created. The other apt owner is likely in breach of that covenant; the mgt company as freeholder (acting through the managing agent) will have an obligation to enforce these clauses. It is a CIVIL matter but between the freeholder/management company and the other leaseholder. Check your lease, the mgt company/freeholder will be required to enforce these covenants,

Ray Palmer

odds_on wrote: »

I have the exact same problem with my own pump. It sounds like bearings have gone in it. When Ienquired about a new one, the local large providers quoted abot 550 euros for a new one. It was also suggested that I change from "a negative head to a positive head".

Now, I only use the pump when I use the washing machine. Other things take quite a while - the cistern takes about 15 minutes to fill without the pump.

Buy one of the net and they are about half price. Ebay is actually a good place to look. The system simply isn't designed to work without the pump.

I don't know why they charge so much for pumps here but they tend to be ordered from the UK which you can do yourself. Make sure you either buy metric fittings one or have adaptors bought. If you check the pump you might find they are push connections that don't require any plumbing knowledge to replace.

alanc2003

Marcusm wrote: »

If the mgt company is also the freeholder of the block, they will have an obligation to be involved. The apartment lease (999 or 125 years or similar) will, if properly drafted, include a provision requiring that no noise nuisance is created. The other apt owner is likely in breach of that covenant; the mgt company as freeholder (acting through the managing agent) will have an obligation to enforce these clauses. It is a CIVIL matter but between the freeholder/management company and the other leaseholder. Check your lease, the mgt company/freeholder will be required to enforce these covenants,

we are the owners and next door is renting through a letting agency. Our mananagent company told me it was a civil issues which is why i got onto the letting agent for the property. I have no idea who actually owns the apartment as they manage it on behalf of the owner. I was planning on sending them a second letter giving them another couple of weeks to sort it out and maybe threating legal action(really dont want to go down that route) as a last resort. should i get back onto our own management company?

Ray Palmer

alanc2003 wrote: »

we are the owners and next door is renting through a letting agency. Our mananagent company told me it was a civil issues which is why i got onto the letting agent for the property. I have no idea who actually owns the apartment as they manage it on behalf of the owner. I was planning on sending them a second letter giving them another couple of weeks to sort it out and maybe threating legal action(really dont want to go down that route) as a last resort. should i get back onto our own management company?

You should check what the original specifications were for the property. The pump type or standard would be included. Also put a proposal to the board that replacement pumps should be to a particular standard so as not to cause excessive noise. Pumps have a decibel rating or similar AFAIK

Del2005

alanc2003 wrote: »

we are the owners and next door is renting through a letting agency. Our mananagent company told me it was a civil issues which is why i got onto the letting agent for the property. I have no idea who actually owns the apartment as they manage it on behalf of the owner. I was planning on sending them a second letter giving them another couple of weeks to sort it out and maybe threating legal action(really dont want to go down that route) as a last resort. should i get back onto our own management company?

I'd get back onto your Management Company. The next apartment to you is breaking the house rules by you being able to hear noise during quite time. This isn't a civil issue it's a owner breaking house rules and the management company can't ignore this.

Gatling

Op is this affecting anybody else ,
You pregnant partner ,other neighbors at all

alanc2003

Gatling wrote: »

Op is this affecting anybody else ,
You pregnant partner ,other neighbors at all

its affecting my partner as well, she is going to lose reason shortly if it isnt sorted out. Next door claim that they have got used to the noise now but do agree that it is very noisy. I have no issue with the neighbour as its not really his fault although it wud be helpful if he withheld rent or something. they would be more inclined to fix it. Its the letting agent i have the problem with as they should be sorting this out. I have never met anyone as unprofessional. Didnt return alot of my calls to her and when she did reply it was by text. Then when she came out she stated it wasnt excessively loud.

Gatling

alanc2003 wrote: »

its affecting my partner as well, she is going to lose reason shortly if it isnt sorted out. Next door claim that they have got used to the noise now but do agree that it is very noisy. I have no issue with the neighbour as its not really his fault although it wud be helpful if he withheld rent or something. they would be more inclined to fix it. Its the letting agent i have the problem with as they should be sorting this out. I have never met anyone as unprofessional. Didnt return alot of my calls to her and when she did reply it was by text. Then when she came out she stated it wasnt excessively loud.

There's no legal ground for your neighbors to withhold rent unfortunately ,
Do they think there's a problem with the pump at all ?,

Your best bet might be threat of legal action or something along those lines

alanc2003

Gatling wrote: »

There's no legal ground for your neighbors to withhold rent unfortunately ,
Do they think there's a problem with the pump at all ?,

Your best bet might be threat of legal action or something along those lines

yep, they agree that there is an issue with the pump too. They have been onto the letting agent many times as well without any success.

I really dont want to go down the legal route but im running out of options at this stage so i may have to threaten it at least

odds_on

alanc2003 wrote: »

yep, they agree that there is an issue with the pump too. They have been onto the letting agent many times as well without any success.

I really dont want to go down the legal route but im running out of options at this stage so i may have to threaten it at least

Go into the letting agent and request the name and address of the lanlord as you will be making a claim with the PRTB for excessive noise and disturbance, not able to enjoy quiet and peaceful time in your own home.

You may only make a claim against the landlord, not his agent, but could include the agent as co-respondent.

However, to win a claim you would need lots of proof, noise level, how many times during the day/night etc.

Mrs OBumble

I cannot see that it's a PRTB problem, unless you are claiming that it's the tenant's behaviour that is causing the problem.

It''s not their behaviour (using water is a totally normal part of everyday life). Rather it's their landlord's behaviour.

It's really nothting to do with your neighbours . You need to find some way to put pressure on the owner/landlord, or the agent. this could involve your council's noise enforcement people, a local TD or concillor, Joe Duffy, etc, depending on what relationships you can call upon.


And in the short term - buy some ear-plugs.

Ray Palmer

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I cannot see that it's a PRTB problem, unless you are claiming that it's the tenant's behaviour that is causing the problem.
.

I would see it as a case against the LL which you can do with the PRTB. He is failing to maintain his property and you certainly can bring a case based on that alone.

seagull

One option would be for the tenants to complain to the letting agent about the noise, and continue complaining. After a reasonable period, they can then give the letting agent notice that unless it is fixed in a reasonable time, they will be forced to pay for repairs themselves, and withhold it from the rent. You'd need a pretty friendly relationship with your neighbours to persuade them to take this route.

alanc2003

seagull wrote: »

One option would be for the tenants to complain to the letting agent about the noise, and continue complaining. After a reasonable period, they can then give the letting agent notice that unless it is fixed in a reasonable time, they will be forced to pay for repairs themselves, and withhold it from the rent. You'd need a pretty friendly relationship with your neighbours to persuade them to take this route.

If only they would, they are a couple with 2 kids so I don't think they would rock the boat with the landlord unfortunately.

Anyway, I have just sent another letter to the letting agent giving them 10 working days to sort it out or I would be seeking legal advice. Hopefully that might spur them into action

djimi

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I would see it as a case against the LL which you can do with the PRTB. He is failing to maintain his property and you certainly can bring a case based on that alone.

Thats my thinking as well. Its not an issue with the tenants, but rather with the landlord and their tenancy.

Del2005

alanc2003 wrote: »

If only they would, they are a couple with 2 kids so I don't think they would rock the boat with the landlord unfortunately.

Anyway, I have just sent another letter to the letting agent giving them 10 working days to sort it out or I would be seeking legal advice. Hopefully that might spur them into action

Copy the Management Agent and Company. They can't wash their hands on this as there is noise coming from an apartment which is against their rules.

Have you been in contact with the neighbours above and below to see if they are having the same issue? Especially below, the more complaints the better.

alanc2003

Del2005 wrote: »

Copy the Management Agent and Company. They can't wash their hands on this as there is noise coming from an apartment which is against their rules.

Have you been in contact with the neighbours above and below to see if they are having the same issue? Especially below, the more complaints the better.

we are a ground floor apt with duplexes above us. The pump isajacent to the wall in our spare room. The neighbours on the other side can hear it too but not to the extent that we can

sunnysoutheast

A third party complaint can only be made to the PRTB with regard to the LL's failure to enforce the tenant's obligations. Issues with the standard and maintenance of the property are specifically excluded.

On phone so can't link, but it's on their website.

sunnysoutheast

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I would see it as a case against the LL which you can do with the PRTB. He is failing to maintain his property and you certainly can bring a case based on that alone.

Alas you cannot, at least via the PRTB.

Mrs OBumble

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

A third party complaint can only be made to the PRTB with regard to the LL's failure to enforce the tenant's obligations. Issues with the standard and maintenance of the property are specifically excluded.

On phone so can't link, but it's on their website.

Ya, I was thinking about this overnight, just cannot see what the PRTB has got to do with this dispute between two owners.

If the tenants were recklessly having parties at 1am and the LL wasn't doing anything about it, then it's a different story.

But if all they're doing is brushing their teeth or going to the loo - that's not exactly behaviour that a reasonable LL could be preventing.

sunnysoutheast

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ya, I was thinking about this overnight, just cannot see what the PRTB has got to do with this dispute between two owners.

If the tenants were recklessly having parties at 1am and the LL wasn't doing anything about it, then it's a different story.

But if all they're doing is brushing their teeth or going to the loo - that's not exactly behaviour that a reasonable LL could be preventing.

Yes the provision of a third party complaint is generally for antisocial behaviour, and even then the burden of proof is often overwhelming. Issues such as the OP's are not in the remit of the PRTB, only route for redress is the LA or civil case.

Del2005

OP have a look at the MUD Act and see how you go about making a formal complaint to the Management Company and maybe even get onto your local council noise pollution office. The Management Company are responsible for ensuring that you have quite in your apartment. They have to put pressure on the LL to fix the noise issue.

Idbatterim

I have same issue in my block, they can be turned off and just on for the shower to avoid headwreck. Also in mine there is no mat or anything , just bolted onto the concrete floor!!!

alanc2003

well, the 10 days are up and no reply from the management company. I even rang today, left a message which was ignored as is the usual. I rang the council and they suggested i send another letter giving them another 10 days and say that if nothing is done under section 108 of the enviroment act i should issue them with court proceedings. any advice?

Graces7

alanc2003 wrote: »

well, the 10 days are up and no reply from the management company. I even rang today, left a message which was ignored as is the usual. I rang the council and they suggested i send another letter giving them another 10 days and say that if nothing is done under section 108 of the enviroment act i should issue them with court proceedings. any advice?

please contact epa...environmental protection agency. see their web site re noise pollution. scuse no url; working one handed with broken wrist.

epa have the clout to activate the environmental health officers at the council. have used epa for noise pollution very successfully.